Just found this forum and need help my male chin!

[kellypug]

I'm in San Jose as well, well Los Gatos. I know there is a pretty good vet in Los Altos

Hey Haley,
I PM-ed you about the vet info. But I figured it may be good to post in the forums in general in case there's someone else in the area that needs a chin vet.

Thanks!!!

And my sister just informed me they are heading out to a vet now (VCA branch, said they have a chin doc available today or next Tuesday).

 

[kellypug]

Hi all,
My sister and mom took Buffy to see the vet. She fixed the hair ring issue, but my sister didn't look to see how it's done. I'll have to study that youtube video. Got some Critical Care too to feed him. Also, the vet said that Buffy's back teeth are overgrown and that we need surgery to have them filed down. But since she doesn't know much about small animal dentistry, she referred us to another VCA hospital that sees more small animals and is known for dentistry - I have nothing to go by but her word on it.

Anyhow, I had some questions about the surgery.

The vet didn't take any x-rays so we dunno if it's overgrown roots or if it's just overgrown teeth. She mentioned that the "teeth were poking the gums" (my sister's words) - I asked my sister if that meant the bottom teeth were too long and poking the top gums and vice versa. No clear answer. Should I have the vet do an x-ray on him to see what is going on? I dunno how clear the x-rays would be.

If it is the tops of the teeth being too long, filing it down would be good for now right? But in the long term, I am hoping he'd grind them down himself. If he insists on not taking hay anymore, what else can I give him to chew on?

If it's the roots that are overgrown, I read that there's basically nothing you can do about it - filing away the top portion doesn't help. How to roots just suddenly become overgrown?

Buffy is tentatively scheduled for surgery next Tuesday. I'm meeting my sister and mom halfway to pick him up - the vet referred to us by the first vet is closer to me.

 

[alli713]

I'm no expert in chin dental issues, but I'll tell you what I know.
As far as the filing, you're right that if it is also the roots extending, that won't help. And that also doesn't have a cure. I would really suggest an x-ray just so you know and aren't wondering. If this other vet is experienced in small animals and chins I would have them take the x-ray.

With trimming there's pain, so I assume filing is the same, so you'll want some pain meds (metacam) to help them get over the pain and start eating again.

As far as hay, some chins are picky with what type of hay they like, so you can try different types/brands. Some chins really like orchard grass so you could try that. And hay is really the best at wearing down those back teeth. You could also try adding some oat grass hay to the diet since it's a coarser hay, they will have to work at it more to break it apart.

 

[kellypug]

I'll see what the vet says next week. If it is the roots...what do I do? I don't think I have the heart to put Buffy down, but I know at the rate he's going, it's probably less pain for him If his teeth just need some filing, I will try a bunch of different grasses for him - we've pretty much purchased the same brand and type of hay throughout his life but if his appetite has changed, I will definitely try different types. I wonder if he'll need something a bit softer while recovering.

 

[Luciole]

He might need to be hand fed with Critical Care for a few days after his teeth have been filed, plus pain meds. Make sure you get a lot of food in him over the next week as he has been starving. The small animal dentist can take x-rays before his teeth are filed to determine if his problem is more serious (i.e. root overgrowth). I really do hope that his problem is limited to what your vet found. Best of luck to you!

 

[kellypug]

I went to the vet's today. Buffy is at the vet's office. She easily showed me how crazy long his lower front teeth are. The first vet's notes mentioned molars need to be trimmed too. My sister mentioned that the first vet stuck some stuff inside Buffy's mouth to see his molars and I think she caught a glimpse of it too. So now, I'm anxiously waiting for 3 more hours to pass before I can start calling the vet to pick him up. Hoping he'll be alright

 

[kellypug]

The procedure went well with Buffy I guess. He came home awake, alive, and just a tad bit more outgoing. Maybe he was just eager to go home, but man, what a sigh of relief!

When we got home in the afternoon, he wolfed down at least 10ml of CC and another 10ml later that night. But his poops this morning were really small, I think smaller than from two days ago. The vet said he weighed only 440g! How do I get him to eat more and transition back to pellets? I left some pellets and hay in his bowl last night but it looks like he didn't touch them. Also this morning, he didn't want any CC. I don't know if it's cuz I made it a bit thicker than before and he didn't like that or he just didn't want any. I read a bit about gut stasis. How do I know if he has it or not? I want to get this poor little guy back to the chubby and healthy self that he was.

 

[kellypug]

oh yah, the vet said his left molars were super sharp and cutting his cheeks and perhaps also his tongue. She didn't prescribe any pain meds though, said she didn't think it was necessary.

 

[mishellyshel]

if his teeth were filed and/or clipped he needs pain meds. i would call vet back and have them prescribe some metacam. also since he probably wont be eating normal, she should prescribe cisapride to get the gut moving. you can also try some infant gas drops to help with any gas, which will likely occur with handfeeding. 10 cc's per feeding is not enough. i currently handfeed my chin between 36 & 46 cc's per feeding, 3 feeding a day. i always leave pellets and plenty of hay in his cage but he usually only nibbles on the hay.
my chin was diagnosed with malo and stil takes pain meds every day plus cisapride. i also give him lifeline (chocolatechinchillas.com). i give him that at every feeding, just a little. it really, really helps.

 

[Sandi]

Ditto what Michelle said. Did they take xrays? Are his roots of his molars elongated? Even if they filed the molars down it could be that the roots are so long that that is causing him to have pain as well. He needs to be syringe fed, he won't eat on his own because he is in pain.

 

[kellypug]

I use 1tsp of CC and mix it with 4-5tsp of water. According to online unit conversion, that averages to be about 20ml.
They didn't take xrays - the vet said that they can't do anything about overgrown roots and he needed the teeth filing down regardless. Today, I've seen him eat a handful of pellets. I'm not sure if he's touched the hay yet though. I don't really want to get xrays right now - don't like the idea of putting him under again so soon. Do you think he still needs the pain meds? His poops seem better today.

 

[kellypug]

Just put in my orders for lifeline.

 

[Bethany]

I use 1tsp of CC and mix it with 4-5tsp of water. According to online unit conversion, that averages to be about 20ml.

He weighs right at a pound he should be getting at least 30ml of water a day as maintenance. Keep an eye on his water bottle and make sure he is drinking. Keep his weights as well and supplement with more cc feedings if his weight keeps dropping.

I don't really want to get xrays right now - don't like the idea of putting him under again so soon. Do you think he still needs the pain meds? His poops seem better today.

Yes, if his roots are overgrown the most humane thing to do is to have him euthanized. There is nothing that they can do. If not you are putting off the inevitable in a slow and very painful way, and yes he needs pain meds now. I hate to say it like that, I have a degu who is going to have x-rays next week (since it is a holiday weekend) as I think he may have malo. So I do know what a hard thing it is, but it really is for the best.

 

[jfleenor2]

No, don't euthanize him! He can be managed. It's been done, and the chins live happy, healthy lives for many more years. First of all, get all the xrays by a dental vet expert in the subject. Get a correct diagnosis of the problem. His teeth will need to be filed periodically. At that time he'll need pain meds, CC, etc. for a bit. He'll be fine for a while, till his next filing. One fabulous Chin Mom, Dawn, on another forum, manages several malo chins. They play and have fun like the others.

 

[Bethany]

"Malo is a 24/7/365 issue, there is no vacation for you until the chin passes, the chin needs to be seen by a vet dentist or a really good vet who has filed many MANY chins successfully. Any vet can trim teeth but can they do it to get the correct angles so the chin goes the most weeks before filings. My vet dentist can get a malo chin trimmed to the point they can go 8-9 weeks before filings and those were severe malo chins. Most hack vets can get the job done but the time is only 4 weeks between filings and that it rough on the chin emotionally and physically. Before a filing and after, about 14 days, you will need to hand feed, that means you are the chins sole source of food so you cannot slack, it means if you work you get up two hours early to feed twice, it means when you get home you stay up two hours later to feed and you feed at 2 am. You need to be prepared for bloat and stasis so that means you need to watch close for symptoms of either-chins who are hand fed can gulp air and bloat. Hand feeding means time if you have a unruly chin -aspiration of food means death from pneumonia in just about 100% of the time so if it takes 30 min of feeding to get 10ml in then that is the way it is. The chin needs to be weighed daily the same time of the day and you weigh the food also to see how consumption is.

All this said other things show up with malo chins, cracked teeth, abscesses, CAH deficiancy, gut issues, and there is the time that the chin can get pneumonia after a filing and die within hours. The chin also needs to be check for a heart murmur, if one is detected then that is a whole other issue that I won't go into at this time but can result in death due to the stress on the body.

I don't want to scare you because it may be just a broken tooth of hay jamed in the gums, but any time I see this at that age I have to inform the parent that if the vet says malo you have to dig deep inside and make that decision of total 100% you are going to be able to treat this both financially (this can cost for maint upwards of 1200-1500 a year baring no other issues crop up) and emotionally can you commit the time it takes to do it 100%. If the answer is yes you can do everything I told you above and plan on other crap coming up with malo chins then go for it, but if not then the humane thing is euthanasia I am sad to say."

This is a quote I'm using when I searched malo.

 

[kellypug]

I use 1tsp of CC and mix it with 4-5tsp of water. According to online unit conversion, that averages to be about 20ml.

I should've been more clear on this - this is what he eats per serving of CC. I feed him this mixture of CC 3x a day.

He doesn't seem to be in pain and is eating a lot more than before having his teeth filed. I may be just delaying the inevitable but he seems okay for now. I will get x-rays at his next teeth filing to check his roots. He may need pain meds, can't tell if he is in pain, but he does seem a lot better than before. He is eating on his own, but I am still feeding him CC. He is also a lot more active than before, running around and ready to explore.

 

[kellypug]

Finally bought a scale today and weighed Buffy. He weighed in at 497g He's put on a bit of weight since he got his teeth filed on Tuesday.

 

[InkedupTara]

I have a chin with slight elongation of the roots. She is on a metacam for pain management and I supplement her with crushed food, CC and lifeline, and water. I mix and feed to her 2 times a day.

She eats pellets (some) on her own and drinks as well. She has gained 100 grams since starting all this. I had also talked to someone about supplementing with Vit C and Calcium. It is a death sentence to have Malo, however, until she is not acting herself, i will keep doing what I am doing for my chin.

I will not rush out and put her down, if I can manage her pain and issues now. She is thriving. She plays, eats, is social; when she tells me she is ready to go, I will do the right thing, and have her put down.

I do not see the need, if the chin can have pain managed, why he cant have a good life for now.

 

[kellypug]

Haven't posted in awhile.
I weighed Buffy a couple times again over the last month. He's back with my parents and siblings so I can't readily weigh him. A few weeks ago, he was about 550g and this past weekend, he weighed ~600g! I'm really glad he's been totally acting like his old self again.

And THANKS to everyone for all the helpful posts throughout this process!

 

[Cuddlebug]

That is great news. Keep up the good work.