Ivan aka Rasputin

[Brittany_Lynn]

Hopefully most of you know the stories about Rasputin, the Czar Nicholas II's family physician, who tried everything to cure Alexsei, the prince, and ended up gaining too much influence over the Czarina. He was assassinated, but only after being shot, poisoned, beaten within an inch of his life, and thrown in the freezing Russian river did he died--and not from the above, from drowning.
SO, Ivan was named Ivan before the story I am about to tell, but I now call him Rasputin because he was paralyzed, but made a full recovery. It was absolutely amazing.
Here's the story::
Ivan was born to Sonya and Rodya on 12/08/09, a healthy baby boy who was up and bouncing within hours. I even saw him trying a pellet for dinner, haha. Everything was great until he learned how to get out of his cage. He could just squeeze through the bars of the cage, and then hopped around the (thankfully chin safe) room, until he could rest under the radiator. I tried lots of things to get him to stay inside, including leaving Ivan, Sonya, and Rodya in the bathroom with their cage and cage door open, b-room door shut, so they could go in and out as they pleased. Nothing. Then on New Year's Eve, I saw him hopping around when I had people over-I caught him surprisingly quickly, and noticed that he seemed to be falling on his face a lot, but I didn't think much of it. The next morning, New Year's Day, he was laying on his side in the cage, pushing himself towards Sonya with his back legs, his front legs curled up and paralyzed. I called the vet, and took him in. He responded to pinching the pads of his feet, squeaked, but didn't move. At the vet, she put him on his back, and we watched together as he did absolutely nothing. Obviously something wrong there. She wanted to test for lead poisoning, excess minerals in his body, etc. Unfortunately I was flat broke and didn't have enough money, so we talked about one of the other options-waiting, and giving him antibiotics, in case it was an infection.

So for the next 2 weeks, Ivan got a course of .7 mL antibiotics twice daily, and was carried around with me when I wasn't home. He literally went everywhere with me. Not to freak anyone out, but my bra was his personal carrier. I think he felt nice and warm and safe there.
Now meanwhile, I contacted the breeder who had owned Sonya and Rodya before me, and asked if she had experienced anything like this before. She said no, and added

honestly it sounds like you've done much more for him than i would have. unfortunately its a part of the business, and i think you should seriously consider euthanasia, because his quality of life will be very poor without use of his limbs.

...so that was discouraging. Now originally, the worst of his synmptoms were: paralysis from the neck down to and including his tail, heavy breathing, and a need to open his mouth when breathing. But 4 days into his treatment, Ivan's tail started moving again, whipping around if I put him on his back, trying to get himself on his stomach. A good sign!
His breathing recovered soon after this, followed by his back legs. Unfortunately he tried to push himself around, and face planted a lot for a few days. Then he could move the upper part of his front legs. It was like light switches slowly being turned on...or like that one scene in Jurassic Park where she has to turn everything on individually. (Minus the electrocuted boy and raptor).
So last to turn on were his paws themselves; I was hand feeding him still, until he got use of his front paws again. And just like that, he recovered. Completely. He is now in a kit safe cage, and was while he was sick, as well.

Now, I don't know exactly what happened to Ivan, but I do hope that any breeders who are quick to give up on their babies see this and wait a leeeeettle bit before doing what was suggested to me from Rodya/Sonya's breeder. Cause he's happy and healthy and lovely!
That's all.
Here are some pictures of baby Ivan.

 

[saszygirl1]

What a great happy story.It made me cry.

 

[Brittany_Lynn]

What a great happy story.It made me cry.

Only happy tears!! Ivan will come 'peepeep' at you and make you very happy

 

[alli713]

You know you could have easily prevented all those issues by getting a baby safe cage with small bar openings in the beginning?

I'm glad he turned out okay though.

But actually you'll find that most breeders on here do anything for their animals. They wouldn't be quick to jump the gun and tell you to put an animal down. So I'm sure that some breeders will take offense at what you said in that last paragraph..

 

[tunes]

I have to agree with Allison. Part of being a responsible pet owner, as well as a breeder, is to have cages that are appropriate and safe for your animals. If a kit escapes it's cage one time, it's pretty obvious that the cage is not safe for them, and it's time to make some changes. Anything larger than 1/2 x 1 inch opening and a kit is going to escape.

I'm glad it turned out well, but perhaps next time if you had done proper research into what a kit could be contained in, he wouldn't have had to be put through all this in the first place.

I don't take offense to what you said, though it does annoy me that someone would make that kind of uninformed remark. If you have half a clue what I, and other breeders, go through to save kits and other chins (or any animal in my care) you would never have made it in the first place.

 

[Anne-Lise]

I've read some amazing stories here of breeders who keep going and never give up. Never would I judge that kind of decision if they took it. I also have 2 friends who had paralyzed pet chinchillas. Both decided to put them down after seeing them limping and suffering for weeks with no life quality at all ..... And I will not judge them for their decision. It was the best for them.

Cause he's happy and healthy and lovely!

That part is never certain. Unless they come from a reputable breeder who's doing strong selection on health and genetic problems, you can rarely affirm that a chin does not carry any genetic disease that they will pass on to the next generation and so on.

Of course you can NEVER be certain of that no matter the breeder, but let's say the chances are better to get a good and healthy animal from a good breeder.

I'm glad he did a full recovery, he has such a cutie face :thumbsup:

 

[VolunteerChin22]

I think she will find as she interacts with other breeders here that is not the norm, but I can understand why she might say that when her only contact during this experience with a "breeder" was the response she got.

 

[starleomach]

I think that is a thrilling story and all but honestly after going through what I did for a kit last weekend I am a bit offended. Not all breeders just give up... He is weaned right? If he is still with mom it is way to long. 8 weeks is the longest for males with mom. Congrats on the wonder of his recovery

 

[Brittany_Lynn]

I am SO sorry for accidentally offending any/all of the above posters, but as VolunteerChin22 pointed out, it was because of my experience with the 'breeder' I contacted--Rodya and Sonya's previous owner.

I think she will find as she interacts with other breeders here that is not the norm, but I can understand why she might say that when her only contact during this experience with a "breeder" was the response she got.

It honestly was not my intention to be rude or to jump to conclusions about anyone on this website, my poor choice of words was in reaction to my contact's choice of words, which was as follows:
'as a breeder, losing babies is just part of the business, something you get very used to in a short time'
So, I apologize profusely to starleomach, Anne-Lise, tunes, alli713, and anyone else I offended and/or seemed rude to. It sincerely was not my intention.

You know you could have easily prevented all those issues by getting a baby safe cage with small bar openings in the beginning?

Yes, I did not realize that Ivan was escaping until Christmas, and that was my mistake. When I first noticed, I kept him in the cage with Rodya and Sonya until I slept, when I moved the 3 of them to my kit-safe cage (which is significantly, and unfairly, smaller). When they weren't in the kit-safe cage, I was in the room with them, and was able to sit by the cage--which kept Ivan inside, he was a little scaredy-cat, so to speak. On Christmas, their present was that they were put in the bathroom with the cage door open, and the bathroom door shut. Obviously my biggest mistake was not keeping them in the baby-safe cage exclusively after I realized Ivan was getting out in the first place, followed by not paying close enough attention on New Year's Eve.

He is weaned right? If he is still with mom it is way to long. 8 weeks is the longest for males with mom. Congrats on the wonder of his recovery

Ivan was separated completely at 6 weeks, mom was getting very testy with him still nursing and I was actually a little afraid for him. So Mom and Dad got put back in the big cage. Dad is now in the little cage with mom, because I have an appointment for Rodya to get neutered, and if Sonya isn't pregnant now I don't want her to get pregnant in the mean time. They're upset right now because they're separated--Rodya, surprisingly, hasn't been eating much (surprise because he is SO FAT, haha)...but he'll get over it soon enough.

((RE: Ivan being Healthy)) That part is never certain. Unless they come from a reputable breeder who's doing strong selection on health and genetic problems, you can rarely affirm that a chin does not carry any genetic disease that they will pass on to the next generation and so on.

One of the things I asked my contact/Rodya/Sonya's previous owner, was if any of their previous kits had had a problem like Ivan's. She said no, absolutely not, so unfortunately I am left with the assumption that Ivan's temporary paralysis was completely my fault, and had something to do with either him escaping, or the fact that the cage they were in was MUCH taller than their old cage; Ivan could have fallen from the top ledge, a fall of about 3 feet (he was a persistent little bugger, kept jumping to the top of the cage to explore even though I moved everything so that I *thought* it was out of his reach). Although she could have been not telling the truth, I doubt it--2 days after adopting Rodya and Sonya, I realized one of my friend's friends had bought their last kit a few months beforehand from the same person. Rodya and Sonya had previously been named something coffee-related, and their kits under the prev owner all had names like latte, mocha, cappuchino, etc...my acquaintance owned Latte, and definitely got it from the same person. quite a coincidence...anyway Latte is healthy, has a health guarantee that came with his/her purchase, so...again I am left thinking that Ivan's problem is all my fault.

I hope everyone can lease: forgive my very wrong earlier conclusion, and that everyone accepts my very sincere apologies. I'm making a terrible first impression. :banghead:

 

[starleomach]

I wish in a way you got used to losing kits. You never get used to losing kits, or the adults. I have been doing this for quite sometime and I don't even sleep if someone seems a little off.

 

[Essentia]

I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said, other than I totally remember seeing that picture of him in the measuring cup on cuteoverload.com.

 

[Brittany_Lynn]

I wish in a way you got used to losing kits. You never get used to losing kits, or the adults. I have been doing this for quite sometime and I don't even sleep if someone seems a little off.

:cry3: I'm so sorry! But I'm glad to know that (unfortunately) Rodya and Sonya's past owner is just a small minority in...emotionally numb?...breeders.

I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said, other than I totally remember seeing that picture of him in the measuring cup on cuteoverload.com.

Ah! You remembered! Teehe~ I wonder if you remember one of my other chins, Mork, being on there, too? He was the white chinchilla eatin' some apple in the condiment holder part of the fridge. The post was called "One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong" ...everyone was making fun of my plethora of pickles and olives And my sock-foot holding the door open, ha.

 

[Brittany_Lynn]

Also, I don't want to start another thread just for some random questions that have probably already been asked, so I'll ask them here.
I'm curious, the X# Z# Y# naming of baby chins, I assume that's because you don't want to pre-name a baby you are going to sell: can any breeders explain to me where the Letter and Number come in? That is, how do go about deciding that the next 3 kits your chin has are going to be on your website as Z7 Z8 and Z9? I'm thinking right now that the letter comes from your overall baby-population, and that the number comes from how many litters/kits the dam has had. But I'm just shooting in the dark.

Also, Ivan is very very active and doesn't really like being held. Is there a really good way to get him to sit on my lap or my shoulder for long periods of time? When Mork came to me, he already loved riding around on my shoulder, and now whenever I take him out, that's the first place he goes. He gets a raisin if I can walk around without him attempting to take off, and that will keep him sitting tehre, sometimes chewing on my hair, for a while. He will even sit on my shoulder for a few minutes when I'm watching tv, before hopping onto the couch and taking off.
Any way to get Ivan to like something like that? When I hold him, he likes to nibble/bite the skin between my thumb and forefinger so that he can be put on the ground to run around where he wants. I'd love it if he would enjoy sitting on my lap, even if I couldn't pet him or anything. Obviously he's a prey animal and his instincts are to keep away from me, but...anyone with advice for helping him become a better 'pet'? I know with Rodya and Sonya, I have to just sit still and let them hop on me without touching them, after months of doing that, and offering raisins when they came to the cage door, they actually don't immediately scatter when I open the door. Sonya prefers for me to lay down on the floor before she will hop near me, or out of the cage, often times. Rodya doesn't care if I'm sitting or standing before he comes out. So that's really all the experience I have with getting a chin to be more friendly.

 

[aznmexaggie]

I'm curious, the X# Z# Y# naming of baby chins, I assume that's because you don't want to pre-name a baby you are going to sell: can any breeders explain to me where the Letter and Number come in? That is, how do go about deciding that the next 3 kits your chin has are going to be on your website as Z7 Z8 and Z9? I'm thinking right now that the letter comes from your overall baby-population, and that the number comes from how many litters/kits the dam has had. But I'm just shooting in the dark.

For record-keeping, chinchilla breeders use a universal system for keeping track of all their kits. Every year is designated a number and this year, 2010, all kits born will have the letter Z in their ID. All kits born in 2011 will have the letter A. 2012 - letter B, and so on (with the exception of certain letters such as 'O' and 'Q' not being used because they look too similar to other letters) The numbers are for the kits' birth order in the year (the first kit of this year will be the Z1, the second kit will be Z2, etc.). Here's a link to info from the MCBA site: http://www.mutationchinchillas.com/NewBreederHelp/record_keeping.htm

 

[starleomach]

Ivan was separated completely at 6 weeks, mom was getting very testy with him still nursing and I was actually a little afraid for him. So Mom and Dad got put back in the big cage. Dad is now in the little cage with mom, because I have an appointment for Rodya to get neutered, and if Sonya isn't pregnant now I don't want her to get pregnant in the mean time. They're upset right now because they're separated--Rodya, surprisingly, hasn't been eating much (surprise because he is SO FAT, haha)...but he'll get over it soon enough.

:

You could try dad with Ivan... otherwise mom will likely get pregnant again

 

[Brittany_Lynn]

Oops, that was a mis-typing, Rodya is in the cage with IVAN not Sonya.

Also thanks so much for the info! That's super interesting. Thanks so much!

 

[kimbt622]

that is a really nice story, i love the last picture of his scrunchy face!

 

[Brittany_Lynn]

I really wish i could edit that first message. Grr!

 

[Ippo456]

Yep I saw that photo on CuteOverload.com too.
I'm always happy to read/hear stories about chinchilla owners who persevere despite what kind of ailments the chinchilla might have. We just have to have faith in the creature; if they are not meant to live, I'm sure that they have a way of letting us know that it's time for them to go.

 

[RDZCRanch]

I'm glad you found the forum and now know that the breeder you talked to is not the norm. In my opinion, the breeder that is "used" to losing babies doesn't care about the individual animals...just producing babies to make money. That's how it has been in my experience at least.

Like Kristy, I also wish I could just shrug off baby deaths as if it were nothing. While I didn't cry over the stillborn baby here a couple days ago...I sat for at least 10 minutes trying to revive him with no signs of life. All the breeders I know personally will go above and beyond to revive and treat their babies to give them the best chance at life possible.