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Courtney

... and the Dynamic Duo!
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
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642
Location
Edmonton, AB
Kismet and I just got back from the vet. She started vomiting last night and showed mucous in her poop. She refused to eat last night and turned her nose up at oatmeal and hand-fed kibble. For the Diva, this is a big deal – she never passes up food. This morning, it didn’t appear as if she had left her bag throughout the night either.

So, I made an appointment at 7:30 this morning and by 9am, we were at Park Vet with Dr. Kwantes. Kismet generously provided a sample of poop, so he took that to perform a fecal floatation. I should have results for that later today. Kismet’s gums looked a little pale, so the vet was worried about a) dehydration or b) internal bleeding. He could find no signs of swelling in her abdomen and there appeared to be no signs of blood in her poop (the fecal will confirm), which was very positive. He suggested syringing her water to ensure she’s not dehydrated.

Due to the fact that Kismet will not eat live prey, the vet also suggested that her pale gums could be a sign of low iron and recommended that I supplement her daily diet with liver. I forgot to ask the vet – would iron pills help as well?

All in all, Kismet appeared healthy, vibrant and curious… the vomiting is just a sign of something and he’s not 100% sure until the fecal comes back. In the meantime, he prescribed the following medications as a precaution, and it could change when the fecal comes back, based on what may present itself.

- Metronizdazole twice daily until the vial is complete. I believe the dosage is 2.5cc each time, for a duration of 7 or 14 days. I’d have to check the vial to be 100% sure.
- Sulcate Suspension thrice daily, with the AM and PM dosages occurring 1 hour before the Metronizdazole. This medicine will provide a lining for her stomach and reduce any stomach upset she may experience. I believe the dose is 1.5cc each time.
- Metacam for 4 days, just in case she has any pain. He couldn’t feel swelling in her abdomen, but he said there could be minor swelling that he can’t feel himself. He prescribed the Metacam as a precaution to prevent further swelling if there is any. I think the dosage is something like 0.05cc (I’d have to check the vial for sure), but I know it’s a very small dose.
- Medi-Cal Feline Hypo/Gastro moist food. This food is gentle on her stomach and will provide the necessary nutrients she needs since she’s not exactly interested in other food at the moment. It’s meant to cats with gastro-intestinal issues, so it shouldn’t cause vomiting. Since it’s moist, it should also prevent further dehydration.

It’s been a wild few days. Vette is on medicine, Kismet is on 3 medicines and I’m just waiting for Cuda to get sick. I’m just in the process of figuring out a way to juggle my schedule so I can manage to give Kismet her mid-day dose, because Mom just doesn’t feel comfortable with it. I guess when it rains, it pours.

If anyone has any suggestions on upping Kismet’s iron intake, what other foods would be gentle on her tummy or any other tricks, I’d be glad to hear them. I think this is the first time I’ve had two animals sick at the same time, and I’m really worried about cross-contamination.

It’s going to be a very hectic few weeks.
 
Oh, poor Kismet! I hope she will be OK. The Hypo/Gastro is a good food. I give it to my cat because of his stomach issues. He loves it, and hasn't thrown up once since we started it.

My vet told me that when it comes to giving a medication 3x/day, they don't have to be spaced exactly. So you could give a dose in the morning, a dose when you get home from work, and then a dose just before bed.

Unfortunately I have experience in dealing with multiple sick animals at once. My advice would be to label their medications with their names and the dosages if they didn't already do that at the vet. You have no idea how many times I've gone to give meds, and then had to phone the clinic to double check who's getting what. 2.5 cc seems like a really high dose for the Metronidazole. When I've given that to the hogs the dosage has been more like 0.025 ml. I'm not an expert in dosages though, and I would imagine it depends on the hog's weight and why it's being given.

We're sending lots of good thoughts to your quilly crew - get better soon girls, and Cuda, don't you even think about doing anything weird right now!!!
 
They already labeled the stuff for me, and I'm pretty sure I'm completely wrong on the dosages. The vials are at home and I'm at work, but I think 0.023mL may be closer to what the vet said. I'm just going on little to no sleep, since I was up all night making sure Kismet was okay. Heh.

That's good to know about the dosages, because doing it that way would make things so much easier. She's only getting the Metron. twice daily, so the middle dosage of the Sulcrate is probably just a precaution anyway. All he really stressed was that it had to be given about 1 hour before the Metron. to work properly. If I have to, I'll set my alarm to wake me up in the middle of the night to medicate her. I've done it before. LOL.
 
Egg yolks are high in iron? Awesome! Kismet loves eggs and they're one of the few things that don't upset her tummy. The vet recommended liver as well, but not until we get this vomiting thing under control.

Sorry for the stupid question, but why can't animals have iron pills? It's probably a really simple reason, but I'm having a hard time finding the answer on Google.
 
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The vet called back with Kismet's results: She has an over abundance of bacteria in her intestine, which is the cause of the mucous and quite possibly, the vomiting. I'm to continue with the medicine as prescribed, and I should see an improvement within a few days.

I checked the dosages and they are:
- Sulcrate: 0.15 CC thrice daily.
- Metronidazole: 0.25 CC twice daily.
- Metacam: 0.05 CC one daily until Thursday.
 
That sounds more like the dosages I've used. I've had good luck with the Metronidazole. You may want to get some Benebac or a similar probiotic to give her as well, to avoid an upset tummy and green poops.
 
I ran out of time to edit:

Diva had her first dose of the Sulcrate and suffice to say, she wasn't impressed. It smells like chalk to me. She took it like a champ, but as soon as it was all done, she curled into a ball and hissed at me.

For those that know more about this than I do... is there a specific time I should give the Metacam? I was thinking I could give it an hour following her middle dose of the Sulcrate. She doesn't have a Metronidazole dosage until way later tonight (following another Sulcrate dose), but I thought it might be best if I gave her the Metacam in about an hour. That way, her stomach would be coated and I wouldn't inundate her with too many medicines at once. Is this a good theory, or should I give her the Metacam at a certain point in the day?

My tentative schedule:
6am: Sulcrate
7am: Metronidazole
5pm: Sulcrate
6pm: Metacam
11pm: Sulcrate
12pm: Metronidazole

I know it's not exactly evenly spread out, but I think it's the best I can do, considering my work schedule and mom's discomfort in giving her medicine.

Sandi - I think that's kind of what the Sulcrate does. It lines her stomach to reduce any further upset. That's what I got from what the vet told me. I do have acidophilus on hand... I should give that to her about midway between her Metronidazole doses, right?
 
I might be premature in saying this, but Kismet didn't appear to have thrown up all night. She did throw up the Metronidazole last night, but promptly ate it and took the rest like a champ. I think I might have given it to her too fast, because we had no issues like that this morning. She loves her HYPO/Gastro moist food and ate nearly the entire amount I gave her (2 tablespoons) over the course of the night. She was actually the first one up, went right to her food dish and then to her water dish to have a long drink.

She also had a nice poop while on my lap last night, and it was well formed. No green or liquid stool. After her poop, she had a nice biiiiig stretch and then spent the next half hour trying to anoint over my watch band. She much more lively than she was two days ago.
 
I mentioned no iron pills because I think it is too much iron for a little hedgie. I don't know what the proper dose would be, either. I know in people who have certain thallssemias (which is a type of genetic anemia in people) it is recommended to them to not take iron pills but to increase their consumption of high iron foods. Some baby foods are fortified with iron, too. Also, in people, iron can cause constipation. I don't think the little hedgie needs any more interference with her digestive tract. I'd stick with high iron foods.
 
Why was she put on Metacam? I don't understand why she'd be on it when she is already having intestinal problems.
 
Ah, that makes perfect sense. Thank you! I think I'm going to offer her some egg yolks in a few days, because I know those don't upset her tummy in the least. When she's all better and off her medicine, I'll start introducing a bit of liver into her diet. I don't want to introduce anything new while she's on so many medicines.

Why was she put on Metacam? I don't understand why she'd be on it when she is already having intestinal problems.

She was put on a small dose of Metacam at the recommendation of the vet. He felt around for swelling that would possibly explain the vomiting, but couldn't find any. He prescribed 0.05CC of Metacam to alleviate any minor swelling that he may not have felt or missed in his exam. He also said that she could be experiencing minor pain from the repeat vomiting, so the Metacam would take care of that as well. If I understood correctly, a hedgehog who has pain in their esophagus from vomiting and pain in their sides from the retching would be less willing to eat, and at this point in time, she needs to eat so we don't have yet another problem (FLD) on our hands.

I have to phone him today to give him a quick update, so I'm going to double check this.
 
Just be careful with the stomach coating stuff - it can definitely turn diarrhea into constipation if you're not careful.

It's the vet equivalent of Carafate.
 
Yep, he did warn me about that. I'm watching her (and her cage) closely, and things seem to be fine at the moment.
 
She was put on a small dose of Metacam at the recommendation of the vet. He felt around for swelling that would possibly explain the vomiting, but couldn't find any. He prescribed 0.05CC of Metacam to alleviate any minor swelling that he may not have felt or missed in his exam. He also said that she could be experiencing minor pain from the repeat vomiting, so the Metacam would take care of that as well. If I understood correctly, a hedgehog who has pain in their esophagus from vomiting and pain in their sides from the retching would be less willing to eat, and at this point in time, she needs to eat so we don't have yet another problem (FLD) on our hands.
Metacam can cause a lack of appetite - if there is no real sign of discomfort I would be discussing the use of it again with my vet - I would be very wary giving NSAIDs as a precaution to a small animal with possible gut irritation etc. Is he actually showing signs of discomfort?
Whilst I appreciate the stomach lining products may assist in preventing any further drug induced irritation I'd still be wary of using Metacam.


I'm glad to see you've managed to get Kismet seen but I'm a little confused - did you suddenly find a vet who could see hedgehogs and who was not far from where you worked? In your earlier thread (here) you seemed to be having all sorts of problems getting a vet for Vette.
 
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Hi Claire, I managed to luck out with Kismet. A vet in Sherwood Park happened to have an opening at 9am that I grabbed. I didn't ask specifics, I just packed her up and went.

Thanks for your concern.
 
Also, I just left a message for the vet to ask about the Metacam. He was in an appointment, but the receptionist will ask him to call back as soon as he's done. I guess I'll find out if there was another reason for it, or if it was just a precaution that's not really necessary.

Either way, she seems to be doing well. She hasn't vomited since 10pm last night and while her poop is a little bit green and a little moist (but still fully formed), it doesn't appear to have any mucous in it. It's a nice size, not too large or small, and she didn't seem to be straining at all. Nothing like TMI.
 
Hi Claire, I managed to luck out with Kismet. A vet in Sherwood Park happened to have an opening at 9am that I grabbed. I didn't ask specifics, I just packed her up and went.

Thanks for your concern.

That is most fortuitous for Kismet. What a pity you did not seem to have access to the same vet for Vette.
Lets hope this new vet is able to meet your requirements for appointments in the future for all your pets. :)
If they are good could you please share the details with the rest of the forum? Anyone else in your area might appreciate that.
 
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I am glad to hear both of my girls, Lady Vette and Baby Kismet, are on the ro ad to recovery. A hug for each from me!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Be careful of Shetland's "hugs"....they are usually more like *grabs and stuffs in pockets*. :wink3:

Glad to hear the girls are on the mend! I hope Cuda is watching carefully and saying, "That doesn't look fun, so I'm NOT going to join in on the medicine club!"
 
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