How do breeding-chins live?

[kathiva]

One question though, how do breeding chins from ranchers get to chew wood? do they all get a piece of wood or what?

 

[starleomach]

One question though, how do breeding chins from ranchers get to chew wood? do they all get a piece of wood or what?

Hay cubes and the pellets do meet the chewing needs of chinchillas. Some may give wood blocks but most just have pellets and Hay cubes

 

[kathiva]

oh, I see, just wondering how the chins would wear away their teeth, when the rancher would have so many and hardly little time to give each a wood stick

 

[Megan]

And that is also one of the reasons why I don't have toys in my cages all the time. I get them wooden hanging toys every so often, but they can go for quite awhile without toys and a ledge in their cage. However the teeth wear down from the hay, hay cubes and pellets.

I have also heard of a rancher who did NOT use hay. Strictly gave pellets and the animals were fine and healthy, as well as the teeth. Not sure how long ago this was- but I heard the story while talking with other ranchers.

 

[tkc1038]

This is a fabulous thread.

 

[monarch]

I have also heard of a rancher who did NOT use hay. Strictly gave pellets and the animals were fine and healthy, as well as the teeth.

This statement can be construed as a hasty generalization fallacy - "It is true for these cases, therefore it must always be true".

Isn't this the same statements seen on all those craigslist ads that everyone was pulling their hair out over? "I've always kept a rabbit and a chinchilla in the same cage and they're both fine and healthy," and then everyone gets upset at this this because clearly there hasn't been something bad to happen yet, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

I think hay is a necessity for a chinchilla's digestive system. Just because a few chinchillas were known to have survived without hay, doesn't mean it we shouldn't try to provide the best diet possible for them...

 

[InkedupTara]

I own that baby in the video! ( he is a chunky monkey now)

Back on topic. I agree with Tanya, you cant compare the 3 types of owners, and this was a very interesting thread and a good read.

 

[starleomach]

what it comes down to when breeding chinchillas, is to give everything you can. If you can give hay give hay. I alternate between loose hay and cubes in the Fall and winter when we have hay for the horses my chinchillas have hay or hay cubes, in the spring and summer they have hay cubes.

I try too keep something in each cage for them to chew on a block of wood or the like in the cages with no shelves, they always have pellets and Fresh water.

Your responsibality as a breeder is to provide the best environment possible, give them the most space you resonably and safley can, if you can give them toys, I always ask my family for chinchilla toys as christmas gifts etc. I try to keep fleece items in the cage but with colonies they do get destroyed,

But I also do not give something that pet owners do, mine do not get nightly or even weekly out of cage time, They get attention in the cages sometimes they get to come out. I only have 1 wheel here and it is more for medical uses if someone need to get things moving like if their poop is small and they may be getting constipated they go into the cage with the wheel, sometimes a female who is having issues if you give her a wheel or a dust bath it can get things moving again. just the excersize. Mine also do not get nightly treats, I have treats here and give them on ocasion but sparingly.

 

[Megan]

This statement can be construed as a hasty generalization fallacy - "It is true for these cases, therefore it must always be true".

Isn't this the same statements seen on all those craigslist ads that everyone was pulling their hair out over? "I've always kept a rabbit and a chinchilla in the same cage and they're both fine and healthy," and then everyone gets upset at this this because clearly there hasn't been something bad to happen yet, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

I think hay is a necessity for a chinchilla's digestive system. Just because a few chinchillas were known to have survived without hay, doesn't mean it we shouldn't try to provide the best diet possible for them...

I said THOSE animals were healthy, with no teeth issues. Did not say everyone should do it, I do it, or all animals would be fine.

Point is, it's been done on a large level. What is a "few" to you? 1? 2? this was several hundred to thousand animals in the herd. That is a little more then a few people keeping their animals with animals. It was simply something that a long-time rancher had observed over the course of several years. Nothing wrong with providing food for thought from someone who has more experience with these animals then many of the forum members do.


What is the "best diet possible?" load them up with raisins, cheerios, rose hips and other "treats" that many people feed? Some people may think treats are good to feed. Others may choose to go about their animals diets differently. What makes it ok to put either one in the class of a cragislist idiot who is doing it all wrong?

 

[tunes]

I think hay is a necessity for a chinchilla's digestive system. Just because a few chinchillas were known to have survived without hay, doesn't mean it we shouldn't try to provide the best diet possible for them...

I know of 4 large ranchers (1000+ animals) who do not provide hay for their chins. They do well on show tables, their animals are healthy, etc. One of them has been breeding chins for about 30 years.

This has been debated before on CnQ and on here, as to the "necessity" of loose hay. The trend now with several vets is that chins should have more hay than pellets, but that has not always been the case, and it still isn't subscribed to by all who breed chins. The ranchers that Megan speak of, and I know of at least a couple of them that she means, are very successful, and most of the people on this forum probably have their bloodlines in their herds or individual chins.

I do think chins need hay, both for their general health and for the simple enjoyment of chewing, tossing, and playing. I do not give hay every day. Once I got up in numbers, it became impossible. For me to hay all the chins here adequately it's around 15 pounds each time. The only place I can get hay out here is from Oxbow. With shipping, it's around $250.00 for 200 pounds of hay shipped. At 15 pounds EACH TIME I give hay, it would be impossible for me to afford to hay my chins every day.

 

[Megan]

Thanks Peggy, I was hoping someone else that has been around chins long enough would know what I was speaking of

 

[StevieP]

It was simply something that a long-time rancher had observed over the course of several years

Is several years long enough to see any effects of not feeding hay?

 

[AZChins]

I have seen ranchers that do not feed any hay in any form at all. The chins are healthy and do pretty well, BUT they are ranch chins with all that entails. I don't go into detail - the way that the ranchers care for their chins suits their purposes and it's not necessarily bad for their animals.

I highly recommend feeding hay to all chins because it does have significant health benefits and it gives them a very fun activity. I feed them all hay and give out hay cubes - with that being said, I spend a whole lot more per chins than most ranchers would and I have to prepare many of them for adoption to pet homes. It's so different here than it would be at a fur ranch because the animals serve a much different purpose!

I think it's really unfair to compare what pet people do and what ranchers or large breeders do. There's more than one way to do things. Just because I name every chin and give into their pouting for needing MORE hay or another toy doesn't mean that a rancher, who doesn't do what I do, is wrong or harming the animals.

For someone with pet chins FEED HAY every day. The chins will do better for you with the hay. It helps with the teeth and digestive system. However, if you hear of a larger breeder or rancher not providing loose timothy every single day, don't act like they are trying to harm chinchillas or are selfish in some way. That isn't the case.

 

[tunes]

Is several years long enough to see any effects of not feeding hay?

As I said, one rancher alone has 30+ years experience with breeding chins. I'd say that's long enough of a trial to see the effects, wouldn't you? Another one Megan is thinking of has been in chins for over 20 years. So yes, they definitely have the experience to back up their choices.

Much of what Susan says is correct with regards to ranchers, except for the pelting part. The majority of these long-time ranchers realize that the money isn't in pelts like it used to be (though it is pretty steady again) and they are making much more money, with a lot less work (the process of pelting), selling their chins as pets or to other breeders/hobbyists. So it isn't even the excuse that "they don't care because they are going to pelt them anyway" anymore. They simply don't feed hay because of either A) cost being prohibitive, or B) they just don't feel the need to.

 

[Megan]

Is several years long enough to see any effects of not feeding hay?

Considering they've been breeding longer than you or I have been alive...Yes I think so.

 

[StevieP]

If they had chins who lived to 20 years old and were never fed hay and never developed teeth problems related to overgrowth, yes I would say conclusions could be drawn from that. But I quoted and questioned "Several years" becuase generally that is not adequate time to say that something is good or bad. I should have asked, "does this rancher keep the chins for 15 to 20 years to see if any problems arise from not feeding hay?"

 

[starleomach]

I know of a Rancher that does not feed hay that had a male live to be 35... If an animal is not getting what it needs it will show up on the show table,.

 

[AZChins]

Peggy...I didn't say anything about pelting. What I meant was the huge amounts of animals! It would be difficult to keep up with EVERYTHING going on. They're weaning babies and trying to keep adequate records. Sometimes if they don't see that something is necessary, they won't do it. They're not naming all the chins, they don't see the animals as pets. For their purposes feeding hay could be seen as a waste of time or an unneeded expense. I didn't mean pelting...that's a whole other thing and I never would say that they didn't care about the health of their animals just because they are going to wind up pelting them.

 

[tunes]

Steven - Even pet owners don't have chins that live that long, so you are being completely biased by asking if ranchers do. Name me one pet owner off the top of your head who has had chins live into their late teens and early 20s. Don't search for it or research it - just think of someone off the top of your head.

I can. The JAGS had a female who was still having kits when she was 23 I believe? I have a D male here who was from the Butler's, who I have had for 4 years. Neither of these ranchers feed hay.

You can't point fingers at the ranchers and say that their chins die young from not having hay, when "pet people" can't even keep their chins alive for more than 5 years due to too many treats, unsafe cages, crappy food, poor husbandry, etc., and feel justified in those remarks. I'll wager you that ranchers chins live much longer than pet owners because of the care they receive, not in spite of it.

Susan - I know what you meant. I was directing my comment to you saying pelting barns, that they aren't so much pelting anymore. The comment about them not living so long is reserved for people who think that no ranch animal survives past being a year old because they are pelted, which couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[kathiva]

My chin Kodi is going to turn almost 10 years old, and I love him! if I ever stop breeding, this guy I am going to keep and will hope that he keeps turning more years. He is my oldest chin so far.