HELP please...Seizure? Stroke?

[Cheelay]

He is two years old. He has had a birth defect with his eye, they were going to put him down at the pet shop so I took him home.

So last night my Cheelay played for one hour. Then he had his dust bath rolling around for about another 15 mins...then he had his treat back in his cage; dried veg and yoghurt drop. He dropped the yoghurt and went up to the top level. He flattened out. He never does this. I picked him up he was stiff like; like he was limp.

I held him for like 30 mins before I could find an emergency vet. I thought he had died for a bit but his eye was moving. She saw him, said it could be nerological? Could be seizure. They don't have a lot of info on exotics here in Ottawa, Canada. She gave him steroids, baytrill and this stuff to coat his stomach. He is eating and drinking. He runs for a bit (well hops) then his little front paw comes up, his head turns, his back legs go straight and he kinda falls like he's paralyzed. Then in a couple minutes he's ok again. It's been going on since last night at 9. He's sleeping right now but he's unusually calm..

Anyone ever seen this before? Gawd, help me I love him to death...

 

[tunes]

First, and most likely not pertaining to this incident, get rid of the dried veggies and the yogurt drops. They are neither healthy or necessary for a chin.

Second, it sounds very much like he's seizing. Why did your vet give him steroids? Steroids are NOT recommended to be used in chinchillas. Did she give him subcu fluids (using a needle to inject fluids under the skin)? If it's warm where you are, and he had a prolonged playtime, it's very possible he dehydrated, overheated, and seized as a result of that. He should have subcu fluids immediately to make sure he's hydrated. Was he injured in any way? Did he fall or hit anything during play time? Was he exposed to any toxic chemicals? Could he have bitten a power cord somewhere? Did she check his mouth for burn marks?

Not too long ago I had a chin that experienced what I can only call cluster seizures. She acted very much like your describe yours is, with the freezing, the dropping, etc. I started her on a course of antibiotics, and after speaking with a vet I trusted, continued her on them. Within a week they stopped and she has never had one since. The diagnosis was that she had some type of infection that spread to her brain. The antibiotics took care of it, she put all her weight back on, and she's doing well now. I have absolutely no clue if that is what is going on with your chin, that's just something I went through.

 

[Cheelay]

Well he is in air conditioning all the time, I never keep the place over 70. He was not excessively hot. He did not eat a power cord (very chin proof place where he plays) he did not fall or hurt himself either. He was on my head and shoulder and on the floor repeatedely. Also veggies are ok for him, they are dried with no preservatives. The yoghurt drop was a treat, about 1 a month also all natural with dandelion and vitamins.

She gave him very small dose of steroids .01 ml every 24 hours only. She never gave him a shot of anything. She checked over his body numerous times and observed him for about 45 minutes.

She thinks it could be seizure or infection and that is why she gave him baytrill. Oddly enough he is doing better and trying to administer antibiotic via syringe is more and more challenging each time.

He was born with an underdeveloped eye and one toe missing hence why they were going to put him down. Not the best pet shop in the world either which could only indicate that maybe it's a problem that is since birth. Other than that he is very active and healthy. He is walking ok, he's sleeping in his egg with his toutou so it makes me feel better.

I just can seem to find anything on anyone else who has had this problem. I am glad that your chin came back and here's prayer Cheelay does...

Thanks for sharing.

 

[tunes]

Chinchillas who use steroids are at very high risk of developing ulcers in their intestines. It is not safe for them to use, whether it's a small dose or a large dose.

 

[Cheelay]

She gave me some Sucralfate in lieu of that - do you think it's ok? It's drugs made specifically to stop that reaction to them???

 

[AZChins]

I agree, the steroids may not be necessary. Were they given because the vet thought the chin may have hit his head?

I'd stop giving the yogurt drops, those aren't at all good for chins even in small amounts. Some of those dried veggies can cause some serious digestive issues...be very careful with those.

 

[tunes]

I honestly don't know. From what I'm reading, I don't know that I would use it. Let me post a few things for you:

Concurrent use of magnesium or aluminium containing substances (such as antacids or sucralfate) may reduce absorption of enrofloxacin. These drugs should be administered two hours apart.

Were you told to administer the drugs at least 2 hours apart? Because from what I am reading, sucralfate blocks the Baytril, which would make the Baytril ineffective.

sucralfate binds to the surface of ulcers (attaching to exposed proteins) and coats the ulcer, thus protecting the ulcer surface to some extent from further injury by acid and pepsin;

This says to me it it helps with already existing ulcers, which if your chin has ulcers, odds are that he's not going to make it. I've known of several chins with stomach ulcers and none of them survived.

sucralfate may increase prostaglandin production, and prostaglandins are known to protect the lining of the stomach. Sucralfate was approved by the FDA in 1981.

"May" increase - as in, it maybe/maybe not. So it may be blocking the Baytril and doing absolutely nothing else.

 

[Cheelay]

No he didn't have any head injury. She was aware of that. She said in case of infection and yes I was to administer it 1 hour after the baytrill and steroid.

Well now I don't know what the heck to do? Should I just continue with the baytrill? She wanted me to use the sucralfate just while he's on steroids?

He seems to be getting better, well more normal. He hates that stuff anyways - he's all squirmy and *****y like...lol

She admitted she didn't have a million and one experiences with chins and most she saw were on their death bed. I'm super close to Cheelay and play with him all the time therefore I noticed immediately something was wrong.

He has never had stomach ulcers - he has always been 100%. I will stop using the yoghurt. He never has more than one centimetre dried veg per play session.

 

[tunes]

I can understand the Baytril, if she's worried about infection. Just be sure to use some type of probiotic. It also helps with Baytril if you give a chaser so the taste doesn't linger. Maybe offer half a bite sized shredded wheat or a rose hip. They hate it because it tastes like butt - seriously nasty. It can also put them off their feed. If you have critical care, a little shot of critical care after giving the antibiotics really helps too and he might not struggle as much. The other thing would be if you could get the Baytril compounded with something flavored at a pharmacy.

I guess I am not understanding what the use is for the steroids. If you could tell us what specifically the vet gave the steroids for, then maybe we could address that. Was it an "everything but the kitchen sink" approach because she doesn't know chins?

 

[Cheelay]

I have a feeling that is exactly why she gave him steroids; the reality is that she doesn't know them very well. I'm hard pressed to find a vet here for them. Unfortunately because people don't watch excessively with them by the time she sees them it's too late for the chin...

It was an emergency clinic and it was 2 am ish...so I can't remember exactly why she said she'd give him that. I know the Baytril was for infection but she couldn't determine if he'd actually had one.

I think I best find another person (vet) to check him out. He seems ok now. I think he had a seizure but I cannot figure out why. I'm just short of sitting in the cage with him when he's not on me...it's really a terrible feeling.

 

[tunes]

Have the seizures stopped now? Have you tried simply rubbing some Karo syrup on his gums? Hypoglycemia can happen with prolonged run times, just like overheating can. Most people will try and offer a half a raisin or a bit of the Karo on the gums before run time and see if that helps.

How long do you usually allow run time? Maybe you need to cut back on that and offer 15 minutes 2 or 3 times a week for now.

It is a terrible feeling when you don't know what's going on or how to fix it. But you're trying and that's all you can do right now. I definitely think you should shop around and see if there is a vet who is more familiar with chins in your area, or even a little further out. I'm not condeming your vet, there are a lot of vets who don't know how to treat chins, and 2 a.m. is probably not the time they are going to be overly excited to start doing research.

 

[Cheelay]

He is allowed to play for 30 mins a night and usually does so fine. Last night was a bit longer because he had his bath after. He's very much snuggly so he's not jumping around the whole time. It's not unusual for him to curl up in my top and sleep chirping during the middle of his play time.

He has not had anymore seizures since last night that I have seen and I've had my eye on him. He had stopped them last night it seemed but when he would hop around he would suddenly stop, bring up the front leg, back legs stiff and kinda look like he was going to fall over.

The vets around Ottawa are not well known for Chinchillas. It's really irritating. She said she wasn't 100% an expert on them but she didn't seem retarded either. She did spend a lof of time with him and did say it was seizures. He seems to eat, play in his cage, drink and seem fine now. Of course it's day time so he's not super active to begin with.

I will have to see when I let him out tonight. The reason he stays out so long is because he's a lone chin and I don't want him to have loneliness issues but he snuggles more than he plays...

 

[RDZCRanch]

Your chinchilla just had a major episode, playtime privileges need to be taken away so he can recover and not relapse. I don't care what the vet said or how much he actually runs, he needs to be kept quiet and allowed to rest or you are going to end up with a dead chinchilla. They don't HAVE to have playtime. He will be just fine in the cage for a while instead of running every night. You should also shorten his playtimes when you start to give them again. It doesn't make them less lonely to have more running time. You can sit next to his cage and talk to him and pet him if you think he's lonely...he doesn't NEED playtime.

 

[RDZCRanch]

Just wanted to clear something up as well.

Chinchillas who use steroids are at very high risk of developing ulcers in their intestines.

sucralfate may increase prostaglandin production, and prostaglandins are known to protect the lining of the stomach. Sucralfate was approved by the FDA in 1981.

I have seen sulcrafate used in dogs with irritable bowel syndrome. It is not used to protect the lining of the INTESTINES, but rather to provide a protective lining for the STOMACH. Since the worry with chinchillas and steroids has to do with ulcers developing in the intestines, sulcrafate is not going to have a huge preventative effect.

I would take the chin off the steroids. I'm assuming she gave the steroids for possible inflammation in the brain. Not a good idea either...it's a temporary fix and only works half the time. If she's worried about inflammation she should look into providing you with Metacam which is a NON-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID). Since she doesn't have experience with chinchillas she probably does not know that there are better options for treatment out there.

 

[Cheelay]

What if I stop the use of everything? He is miserable. He doesn't want to eat, not even his treats or anything. I tried a chaser after the Baytril of his pellets in mush with a little honey and he spits out everything. He has a few bites of hay. I think I just want to quit all the antibiotic, sucalfate and baytril - would this be dangerous? He's not seizing anymore but you can just see he's miserable. I can't even get in a quarter of the dose anyways because he's so squirmy which is a good sign. Now all these meds are doing are making him not hungry for food which is useless.

Am I wrong in my thinking? I can't get a hold of that vet and there are none open today at all - not even emergency.

 

[RDZCRanch]

If he's squirming too much, you need to burrito wrap him to get him to take the meds.

http://chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13459&highlight=burrito+chinchilla

That link will show you how to burrito a chinchilla, there is also a video.

Baytril can cause loss of appetite in chinchillas. You'll need to get critical care or lifeline to start hand feeding him if he stops eating at all. I would stop the sulcrafate and any steroids if he's still on them. Those are doing nothing to help him. Since he's already started on baytril, you need to complete the two week dose or you risk creating an antibiotic resistant bacteria and that will lead to further complications. Talk to the vet, see if she was worried about inflammation and ask what the steroids were prescribed for. If it IS for possible inflammation, ask for an NSAID to replace the steroids. Metacam (Meloxicam) is the one used with chinchillas with a good amount of success.

 

[Cheelay]

I've already buritto wrapped him and it's just not working. I don't know what to do, he's only had 3 doses - too late to stop altogether.

She gave him steroids as a catch 22. Unfortunately here we don't have life line and those products for chins because they're still very new to Canada. I can't get them to ship over the border.

I'm at a loss...

 

[RDZCRanch]

lifeline can be and has been shipped to Canada. On the website chocolatechinchillas.com, she has prices for shipping across the boarder. You just have to contact her. You can also contact Menagerie on here, she sells critical care and I'm sure she could look into shipping to Canada for you. Where there is a will there is a way.

So she just gave the steroids in the vet office? You weren't sent home with any? Can you give a list of exactly what you are giving with dosages so we have a better idea?

Burrito wrapping works when it is done correctly. Read through the thread I linked to, it has a lot of great advice on how to burrito difficult chinchillas and photos of how the towel should wrap on the chin, step by step. Just giving up and saying this or that can't be done will not help your chinchilla.

 

[Cheelay]

She gave him Baytril .05 dose every 12 hours. She gave him steroids .01 dose every 24 hours. She gave him Sucralfate .02 every 12 hours but 1 hour after the Baytril and Steroid and only as long as he's on steroids. I have stopped the steroids, he had 2 doses. Baytril he has had 4 doses. I am burittoing him properly he is just violent. I don't squeeze him and have had many pets prior to him so it's not because I'm not used to it. I'm not giving up on him but I cannot see where she has justified the antibiotic? He had a seizure from what I have read. She prescribed steroids for possible inflammation...but she didn't know what was wrong with him. I can order it, it's customs that won't let it through the border and I don't have time to wait. I need him to eat. So far he's had a little hay. I've tried to mulch up his pellets and water and syringe that in...very little success. I don't want to lose him from starvation. Nothing in Canada is simple like the US. You guys have tons of breeders and a million resources...unfortunately here it's just not the same. There might be one breeder you can find here about 8 hours away...

 

[tunes]

I am trying to wrap my head around why she would go with such a heavy hitter like Baytril for one undiagnosed seizure. Baytril is probably the strongest antibiotic you can give a chin and it does the most damage in the gut. Usually it's used for respiratory issues, ear infections, pyometra, and urinary tract infection, - all of which are quite often deadly in chins. So this seems like a little overkill for "just in case."

If she wanted to "just in case" treat him, then a better choice would have been trimethoprim sulfa. It's a broad spectrum antibiotics but it's not harsh and it tastes like cherry - most chins love it and grab the syringe. Can you get ahold of her first thing in the morning and get the sulfa? I hate to throw drugs at a chin with no cause. Lots of chins have seizures and it came be very many different reasons - none of which require the use of antibiotics, and definitely not Baytril. As I mentioned above, heat, dehydration, hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) - all of these can cause seizures, and none of them require antibiotics. My case was a weird one. I couldn't get her to stop seizing, so I literally did the kitchen sink method. Once the antibiotics started, she was good, but that doesn't appear to be happening for you, plus, he's not seizing anymore.