help, 3 day old kit has diarrhea

[chandraalto]

I have two babies that my husband and are hand feeding. one has solid poop and the other has diarrhea. How do I stop this so he doesn't dehydrate. I am very worried! I have a vet appointment later on today but the vet isn't exactly a chin vet. There isn't one here that I know of and I've called around.

 

[tunes]

Up the amount of baby cereal you are mixing in with the goat's milk. Most times that will stop it.

 

[Mikayla]

I have the same issue, how squishy should their poops be? Maia's isn't diarrhea, but when you touch it it mushes.

 

[chandraalto]

Husband here.

We weren't using cereal but will now. What should we use, rice or oatmeal cereal? We're thinking oatmeal as it has more fiber so might help with the diarrhea.

We went to a vet who injected them with some kind of sugar water and gave them some Karo syrup to eat as he thought they were too low on that. He wasn't a Chin expert but was one of the few in town who would even look at them. He also gave us some sponge-something powder to add to their food which is supposed to help stop the diarrhea, but we worry this is going to choke them or something. I worry a bit about this though as my wife said Chins are not supposed to have much sugar. When I took the smallest one to the emergency vet before I think they did a sugar-water injection as well, and he died within a couple hours (I'm still extremely sad about the poor guy). So I worry the same might happen to these, though the vet thought we were crazy and injected them anyway. He said the one with diarrhea didn't have good return on the skin when pulled back, so thought he was very dehydrated and the subcutaneous injection was to help with that. Also, the one we thought was doing well passed out or something at the vet. I had him inside my sweater holding him in my hand so he could keep warm as the other one was looked at, and he started climbing up my inner shirt. I took him out (I did not hurt him, I just moved my hand that he was sitting in down from my shoulder to the vet table), I set him down, and he fell over and didn't move, as if he were dead, my heart dropped. He eventually slowly got up and started moving again though.

I think what we are going to do is get some new evaporated goats milk in a can (the other stuff is a day or 2 old now), stop giving the kitten replacement formula, and instead give the goats milk with spring water in a jug (to avoid chlorine stuff that might be in tap water) plus add some oatmeal baby cereal. Feed every 2 hours as much as they'll eat (has been around 0.7 ml each feeding with the kitten formula lately), and keep them warm and comfortable. Weighing them at least daily (one with diarrhea is currently at 40g up from earlier today but down from yesterday, other one is at 44g same as yesterday).

Does this sound like a good plan? Any help is greatly appreciated, I can't take losing another one. I'm willing to spend what needs to be spent, or drive where I need to go to save these guys. Only there doesn't seem to be any Chin experts in our town, and I doubt taking them on a plane somewhere is going to be a healthy option.

I live in eastern Washington state, near the Idaho border, off I-90.

Thanks in advance,
-Josh

 

[tunes]

I'm not meaning to sound short when I say this, but did either of you bother to read the FAQ? It tells you what milk to use, what kind of cereal, how much cereal, how often to feed, how to feed. I referred you to it once, then I linked you to it. The questions you keep asking are IN the FAQ.

Stop going to the vet. Start reading the FAQ and follow what it says. Do not give the kits whatever weird crap the vet gave to you. They are kits. Their systems are out of whack because mom won't feed them and they are adjusting to goat's milk instead of mom's milk. Diarrhea can happen with any kit when you do the switch over. Just up the baby cereal and see if that helps for now. Don't make it super thick, just double the amount recommended, or maybe a little more. It will also help with weight gain.

If you can get fresh goat's milk, they like it a LOT better than the canned. If you read the FAQ you will also see where it says you can freeze the unused goat's milk right after you mix it so that you don't waste it.

 

[chandraalto]

Husband again.

Yes, we read the FAQ. Much of what we did was before we had found this site, and many of my questions are based on questions where I think our situation may differ from the standard, or where I found the FAQ unclear.

For example we read about one formula which uses the rice cereal, but another different formula used the oatmeal cereal. Since oatmeal has more fiber, we thought it might help with the diarrhea more than the rice, so wondered if it would be a better choice in the milk/water/cereal formula for this particular situation.

I was unclear on exactly what type of goats milk is suggested. There is raw goats milk in a can, evaporated goats milk with vitamin D, goats milk direct from a goat without any canning, etc. We'd like to be sure that the evaporated is what is referred in the FAQ as we don't want to hurt the babies because of a minor miscommunication. We are concerned that the raw goats milk may contain bacteria or other dangers due to its lack of pasteurization. They eat the evaporated just fine, so I'd rather not switch unless it is going to be more healthy for them (without any increased sickness risk).

I'm also unclear on what type of water to use. Some have suggested that our tap water is not good for baby animals. Some have suggested "Smart Water" brand water with added electrolytes would be of benefit in hydrating the babies. Another option is "spring water", or other bottled water. Right now we're going with the "Smart Water" with various electrolytes.

I will stop taking them to the vets as suggested. We just figured they'd know more about this than us, and wanted to do everything we could to help them.

"Scar" (the one with diarrhea) has started to eat a bit of alfalfa (yes, I'm aware this isn't in the FAQ, they read elsewhere that this is good to provide in case they want it, and it would probably help with the loose stool).

Thank you very much for the help, we're trying to do our best amidst 5+ different recommendations as to the best course of action to take (various vets, websites, and forums). We are mostly going with what has been said here by you guys and the FAQ, with interpretation where things are unclear, or modifications suggested elsewhere which seem to make sense for our particular case which are not contraindicated by what we've read here.

Hopefully the cereal added to the mixture will stop the loose stool.

Thanks again,
Josh

 

[chandraalto]

Thank you for your advice

Just to let you know I did read the FAQ and started them on goat milk originally then a vet told my husband ( I wasn't there) to use kitten formula. I went with the vets advice until I went this time to this second vet and completely lost confidence when I felt I was educating him on Chin care. I decided to come back to forum because maybe people here do know more than the vets. These kits were an accident for all those judging us. Now that we have them we do have a responsibility for them and are spending hundreds of dollars and losing sleep trying to save them. I plan to find an actual Chin vet and get the male fixed even if I have to go to another town for a vet. Thank you for your time and advice we appreciate it and using it

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

unfortunately even chin knowledgeable vets don't know much about proper chin diet including what to give kits that have to be hand fed. It is best to listen to people who have raised chins for YEARS. Use the goats milk (either fresh (in bottles) or canned) and the rice cereal. I have used for years and have lots of success with that. As Tunes said if they have loose stools up the amount of rice cereal

 

[tunes]

Ditto what Barb said. There are very few vets that know much about chins, and even less that know anything about kits. You can add some oatmeal in addition to the rice, but either one is going to do pretty much the same thing.

Don't spend 100s of dollars. Sometimes, despite your best efforts, kits just don't make it. The vet isn't going to do anything more than you can do at home with advice from experienced breeders on this board.

 

[ticklechin]

If you are going to rescue chins you need a vet that knows chins and you need a vet that is avaliable 24/7/365, if you cannot provide that to rescues don't rescue chinchillas, give another species a chance.

 

[joshalto]

Update and warm milk question...

They're eating more now (usually around 1.5 ml/feeding every 2hours) and we added rice cereal to milk+water but Scar still has diarrhea. They both do seem to be gaining weight though. Giz is up to 46g from 44g. Scar is up to 42g I believe my wife said. I'd really be happy if we could stop the diarrhea though. Also his parts appear a bit swollen/inflamed probably from the diarrhea. I'll try to post a pic next time if anyone cares to look and advise.

As for the milk question, the milk is supposed to be warm so we are loading it into a syringe and leaving it under a heating pad which is under (part) of their box with towels in it. This gets them warm but I'm curious how long is okay to leave them there. We are doing 2hrs right now so we can just prep them for the next feeding when the current one is done. I'm worried this is too long though. Any thoughts?

Currently changing to 1hr as I have to check on them every hour anyway to power cycle the heat pad since it auto-shuts off every hour. Maybe I should just feed every hour since FAQ said "at least" every 2 hours?

-Josh

 

[joshalto]

Pics after some cleaning with warm water and pics of the 2 together resting.

http://db.tt/Jewrj44
http://db.tt/co4Eh3Y
http://db.tt/83pbqK1
http://db.tt/eJYZb0S

 

[tunes]

First, is that box just for videos? If not, I would definitely get them into a chin safe cage because it won't be long before they chew their way to freedom. Kit teeth are sharp as heck and they can chew through that in nothing flat.

Second, I would give the one with diarrhea just the tiniest bit (I mean tiny) of activated charcoal if the diarrhea doesn't clear up with upping the cereal. You can try adding a bit more, but just try and keep it a consistency that will go through a syringe. You don't want to make it so thick that they will choke. Go ahead and try adding some oatmeal to the mix. Chins are like any other being, some respond better differently to different things.

Third, in regards to keeping it warm, I warm it up every time I use it. I would not keep a thing of formula sitting out like that (not for child or kit). It would make me all paranoid about the milk turning bad, especially with such little guys. I have a large collection of baby food jars. I keep some spare formula in one, then pour out of it into another and warm the small amount in either the microwave or I swirl it under warm running tap water until it warms. Usually a couple syringe fulls will be a little more than room temp in my microwave in around 6 seconds. You can re-warm it one time before you need to dump it, clean the jar, and then pour into it from the larger amount for the next time you need it. Often times though, I just dump it and get fresh each time.

 

[joshalto]

They are currently in the box because they can climb out of all the cages we had. They're also in a room with the door shut with no vent so if they get out they cannot go anywhere. We'll look for a better medium term solution till they are big enough to not escape regular cages. Maybe a plastic storage bin.

I'll try upping the cereal. 1-2 tbsp per 2 cans of fluid (about 24 oz total fluid) is nowhere near the point of difficult to get through a 1ml syringe.

I'll try the activated charcoal if he's not stopped today.

I'll adjust meal prep back to how we were doing it before, running the syringes under hot tap water till they are warm. This seemed to work okay.

Thanks for all the help for our babies,
Josh

 

[Cuddlebug]

You could cover one of the cages with hardware cloth to keep the kits from escaping. It would be much safer than a cardboard box or a plastic bin.

 

[NorthIdahoChins]

You can buy hardware cloth at any hardware store, Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. It is great for lining the inside of the cage so the babies cannot escape. You can use zip ties to attach it to the cage just make sure you cut the excess off the ties so they can't chew on it. I would get them into a cage with some soft bedding.