Feeding the strays..

[tskoffina]

If you were losing baby chins as they were born becuase of stray cats, I'm sure you'd change your mind quickly. Maybe they aren't killing my chins ( although would if given the chance I'm sure ) they are killing my other livestock. Despite what people think chickens are great pets. And when you're paying for top quality stock and paying $15+ per chicken, and loosing one - two a week... you get really fed up, really fast.

Plus one attacked our dog, luckily she wasn't injured, I was right there and grabbed her away, but I'm sure with many people after a $300 or so vet bill from your little dog being attacked by a stray it wouldn't take long...

Feeding, and sheltering these cats only breeds more cats, diseases, over population and other issues. I prefer to get them into the HS so they can have a shot at a good home. I'm sorry to say that if they're euthanized, I feel bad, but not that bad not to do it. I'm just protecting my livestock. Plus technically if you're feeding an animal it is considered yours.

If I had livestock I would probably feel the same way. Although I would probably shoot to scare before kill if possible, I would still do what I had to to protect my animals and family. And I deffinately wouldn't like having to pay vet bills because of it.

I guess stay away from nature then; tons of animals get killed in the wild all the time for something that's not their fault. It's not the antelope's fault that the lion gets hungry. Sometimes the most humane thing to do with an overpopulation of animals is to cull them; otherwise you end up with problems like disease, starvation or (in the case of predators) drastic reductions in the amount of prey animals in the area, which can throw off the whole ecosystem.

I know animals kill each other for food and other reasons, but that's different, IMO than euthanizing for something that if traced back was caused by a human. Animals don't have the ability to decide things for themselves.

I know they can't just be left, but I don't have to like the options. I just hate thinking there are other options. It's just one of those things, all of this, that it's hard to understand exactly because your existence is so different. One of those things you can't understand untill you see it or hear about it. I don't live in a New York or Chicago type of city, but you can't tell here where one city ends and another begins. I went to the west coast of Fl with my son to my Aunts house. She has a couple of acres and horses. My son was so excited to see the "park" with a "zoo"... I just wish more people would take full responsability for thier animals and not just dump them when not wanted anymore.

 

[Brightstarchins]

Well, I do not agree with most people that posted here. Nicole, if the cats kill your chicks and chickens why don`t you keep them in a safer fenced in area?

If I see a starved skinny flearidden Cat I will do anything I can to help it. I will feed it, treat it for parasites, get it vaccinated and spayed or neutered. I agree with you in one thing though, the cats should be fixed. Why don`t you and your neighbors get together and start your own catch, neuter and release program instead of complaining about it? This is the second thread you started about this and maybe if you and everyone in your neighborhood would help out and each of you just get one cat neutered things will finally change.

Claudia

 

[TillyChinchilla]

I highly doubt that it is a priority or ability, financially, for most people to catch and pay to get feral cats neutered. Even a low cost spay/neuter clinic would be very expensive with all those cats. I think the neighbor needs to be dealt with directly.

Feral cats are not pets. It would be like taking a weasel into your home and trying to keep it like a pet. Not going to happen. Why do you think 90% of the time, when they have to trap a hoarder's house full of cats, they all have to be put down? It would be easier to rehab seized pit bulls, IMHO.

 

[Jenn]

If you check around, there are some rescuers or programs that will actually do a catch, spay/neuter/ release at no charge. When I tried to control the strays around my property, this is exactly what I did because I didn't have the money to help out more, but I did want to help out. I found a lady who would vaccinate and have the cats fixed and then had them returned to me. I eventually lost the battle, too many cats and I couldn't dedicate the amount of time necessary to keep it up. But if you call your local humane society, they usually have a number for some rescue group that can help.

 

[Riven]

No offense, but why should I have to pay to take care of the strays? It costs over $100 per cat for a neuter and rabies ( which is REQUIRED in the state, if you take the cat to the vet they require it). On any given day I see over 6 different cats in my yard. Then I release them and they just keep bothering my animals, crapping on my porch, spreading my trash all over, attacking my little dogs, and pissing on my door. It doesn't solve the problem. And what about problems that are created by spaying or neutering a cat then immediately releasing it? What if it gets infections, or rips it's stitches out and it's insides are falling out? Is that humane? I'm not paying another $15/day to board a stray until it can be release once it's healed.

They are not my pets, I don't feed them or help them procreate. And most people don't have any many problems as I have because I have almost 5 acres, chicken, chins, and other livestock that attracts them here. Most of them are not skinny, because idiot people feed them, and some of them must be semi-tame to a point because they also put flea collars on some of them.

My chickens are usually in a pen, I have two that live in the garage, they are our pets, and they roam the yard during the day. During the summer I often let the chickens out to eat bugs, they stay on my property. I have also had cats get into my chicken pen. We use a game bird type netting, not poultry wire.

Even if I wanted to spend thousand's of dollars spaying and neutering the strays, I'm not getting rid of the problem we have now, I'm just decreasing them for the future. And even then there will always be some that get missed and the cycle continues.

I see TONS of posts on " is my chin a boy or a girl", "are these treats safe", etc. but they offer information. That's what this is doing. Many people don't realize what kinds of problems they are contributing to by "caring for" strays.

And this is the first post I've ever made about this subject on this forum.

ETA: There is not program is our area, I've contacted the HS, and various rescues. I can not drive over 2 hours one way to drop off one or two strays to a place who has a program.

I am a pet lover, but I'm also a livestock owner. Every chick, or chicken killed, maimed or scared costs me money. If a hen gets scared enough she will stop laying, and because worthless to me, I have to then pay to replace her, plus the egg loss until I get her replaced.

 

[CTChin]

Feral cats are not pets. It would be like taking a weasel into your home and trying to keep it like a pet. Not going to happen. Why do you think 90% of the time, when they have to trap a hoarder's house full of cats, they all have to be put down? It would be easier to rehab seized pit bulls, IMHO.

Well it depends if they are truely feral. I know someone that does trap/neuter/release. She says that many dumped cats were once someone's pets. They act wild because they are scared and revert back to survival fo the fittest. Once she brings them into her care, she can tell the former pets because they revert fairly quickly to being tame once inside with food and attention. She keeps these cats in foster care and will find them a home. The rest are neuter/spayed and released back into their colony. The colony she works with has neighbors that feed and care about the cats. That makes a big difference also.

 

[Riven]

If I trapped a cat that was obviously friendly I would personally try to find it home, and keep it here not drop it at the hs.

 

[Brightstarchins]

The problem is not the the cats, it`s irresponsible people who do not spay and neuter them. And yes, Nicole, this is the first time you posted this on this forum, but a while ago you posted the same thing on C&Q, and obviously nothing has changed in the meantime.

I will continue to feed stray cats, get them fixed and vaccinated. I own several cats and I also own chickens, I have to say that none of my cats ever bothered my chickens. I took in several strays and all of them turned into nice friendly pets. The ones that truely cannot be tamed should be neutered and released. We have to learn to live with the animals. We have Coyotes, foxes, birds of prey etc. trying to kill our chickens, should I just catch all of them to and put them down? That is obviously not an option, cats have the same right as other animals to be here.

Who do you think should be responsible for those cats Jinul? Just all of the other people? I think we should all work together to solve this problem, not just ask "why me"?

Claudia

 

[Riven]

And when no one else steps up is it one personally responsibility in a failing economy to spend thousands of dollars to care for cats that are not theirs? I'd rather spend my money helping an animal that is endangered.

Actually, I did the "shoot to scare" tactic which worked for a while, but now they are no longer scared, and since the problem has multiplied ( seriously at the end of my drive way... )

The difference I truly feel is in numbers, this is not "several" this is at least 20 animals, different ones I see on a weekly basis. I never said "catch and put down" either, I said trap and take to a shelter etc. where the one who are qualified will have a chance a good life. We do not have a "no kill shelter" here, but it rarely puts down animals that could be homed.

I would have no problem working with people, but no one in the area wants to address the problem. I don't have any problems with other animals and my chickens actually, other than occasional neighborhood dogs, which again is a problem that is created by people, not by nature.

Cats have the same rights, but since cats don't give me eggs to use and sell and not cause problems, then I have a right to solve the problem in whatever way I can, don't I? If it was pack of wild dogs I'd find a way to solve the problem as well.

If given my choice, I'd love to solve the problem just by moving into the country where I don't have problems like this. I've never had problems with stray cats until moving here.

I have been contacted by one of the rescue folks I talked to who thinks they might have a place that I could drop the cats off at. A person with a barn who wants cats around to catch mice.

If everyone who had strays fixed them and vaccinated them, there would not be issues like that. Unfortunately I don't have the state of mind to drop that much money into fixing cats that do nothing but cause problems for me.

 

[alli713]

The thing I have an issue with is, that even if you do spay or neuter and you release them back into the wild, they're going to kill things like birds and other small animals. Sure, wild animals would do the same, but it's never good when something is introduced into the wild that is not native there.
I know in areas of high wild cat populations, the bird population can severely decrease.

Where I live, we don't have an issue with wild cats. But then again, no one around here lets their cats outside. To me, that's another problem relating to what I just stated.

 

[Jenn]

The thing I have an issue with is, that even if you do spay or neuter and you release them back into the wild, they're going to kill things like birds and other small animals. Sure, wild animals would do the same, but it's never good when something is introduced into the wild that is not native there.
I know in areas of high wild cat populations, the bird population can severely decrease.

Where I live, we don't have an issue with wild cats. But then again, no one around here lets their cats outside. To me, that's another problem relating to what I just stated.

That is part of the reason why I feed my local strays...I feed tons of birds on my property and since I've started feeding the strays, they have cut back on going after my birds. There are some that still have the drive to go after the birds, but most are content with the food I provide. But these cats also provide a benefit for me - they have killed numerous mice, moles, voles and at least one rat. I love animals but I can do without those rodents.

 

[Essentia]

I highly doubt that it is a priority or ability, financially, for most people to catch and pay to get feral cats neutered. Even a low cost spay/neuter clinic would be very expensive with all those cats. I think the neighbor needs to be dealt with directly.

Feral cats are not pets. It would be like taking a weasel into your home and trying to keep it like a pet. Not going to happen. Why do you think 90% of the time, when they have to trap a hoarder's house full of cats, they all have to be put down? It would be easier to rehab seized pit bulls, IMHO.

Exactly. We do have a cat program here that charges $50 to rent the trap (you get the $$ back when you bring the trap with the cat unless you need it to trap more) and then it is $30 out of your pocket to have the cat fixed. You then come back, get the cat (and the trap if you want to catch more) and the cycle begins again. $30 sounds reasonable, I agree. The problem is, we had over 200 cats living around our apartment complex. They were coming from a neighboring home that I am assuming was feeding them. There were kittens everywhere and it constantly smelled horrible. The apartment complex, like most apartments, wouldn't do anything about it so we were left on our own. That 200 cats x $30 =$6000. I don't know about you, but that just isn't feasible for me. We ended up moving because the problem was so bad and no one would help us any more than the $30 per cat.

If I were in Riven's situation I would get out my gun. I hate to say that because I am a serious cat person, but since I've been in that situation I know exactly what she is going through. There is only so much one can take, and if they are killing livestock and attacking pets it's time to do something about it. I would first shoot to scare. If that didn't work I would be forced to shoot to kill.

If that makes me sound horrible, so be it. Unless you've lived with constant cat spray, picking up scattered trash every single day, the cats killing your pets (or trying to) you really don't know how it is. It really does get to the point that that is the only way to get the population under control.

Riven, I would trap and bring to the HS. If that doesn't work, do what you need to to keep your livestock, pets and family safe.

 

[Ash]

Nicole, is there any way you could keep one of your larger dogs outside to scare them off, or adopt a few larger, older cats for 'barn' cats to scare them off? Though I'd be scared that the cats would join in with them or get severely injurred.

 

[tkc1038]

While I agree that cats feral, just dropped off and breeding need to be spayed neutered and if they can be placed in a nice loving home. The reality of the situation is that there is a overpopulation of cats and kittens and we are coming into the breeding cycle and kittens will be comeing out our ears again in the spring. Most shelters in my area wont even take Cats in because they can not find homes for the ones they have.
Also the cats that are out in the wild are usually sick, with URI, FIV, parisites, and other illness. To treat and care for those Cats takes an enormous amout of responsibility and money. I dont feed the cats around here because they spray my front porch and attack my own personal cat
who LOVES to go outside and be a Main Cat on this street. I live in a very densly wooded area and there is a Transfer station close by and cats and dogs get dropped off there all the time. Trapping and releasing after spaying and neutering really isnt helping the attacking, spraying and general cat issue.
Most of these cats who have benn dropped off are sad and miserable and dangerous, because they are scared and can not fend for themselves untill they retreat into the wild state.
I feel for you Riven and for all the Cat lovers out their but untill you have been sent back into your house by a feral cat bent on attacking you and your children you really cant understand that this situation needs drastic measures to make a small dent in the overpopulation problems in alot of areas in the US.
Okay I am off my soapbox now LOL.
I love animals and it kills me to see these pathetic and ill cats outside begging to make my house their own. If you want to bash me just understand I have been living this cat cycle for 9 years and it is getting worse not better every year.

 

[tunes]

While I can see both sides of the coin here, seriously, do you think that cat is living a great life out in the wild? Fighting for food, getting the snot beat out of it regularly (Ever see a wild tom cat? They look like they have been through a meat grinder.) Half of them are riddled with fleas, mites, and every cat disease known to man. These are not happy, healthy, well adjusted pets. These are wild animals. If a raccoon was ripping apart your screens, getting in your home, and doing damage, would euthanasia or shooting them be so repugnant to you? How about if they were chasing or attacking your children?

Short of putting up a 10 foot high fence with a top on it, you CAN'T keep them out, and why should you have to? My animals stay in my yard. I have my yard fenced with a 5 foot high chain link fence. Yet still, even in town, I have cats jumping in and out at will. I flea treat my yard, flea treat my animals, and yet still I have flea ridden cats and stray dogs running across my grass, infecting MY animals. I never had a single flea in 8 years of living in the country, where the wild cats didn't come because the dogs had free roam of 35 acres, and now I am fighting them every blessed year. I am not Bill Gates. I don't have millions to throw away on other people's animals. There are times I am hard pressed to take care of my own with job cuts and so on.

Absolutely not Nicole. Under no circumstances is it YOUR responsibility to take care of those cats, spay them, castrate them, vaccinate them, feed them, or anything else. If there's an opportunity to do so, fine, for instance, if you are able to get ahold of a litter of kittens before they turn into the little beasts that they do, then that's a possibility. But other than that? No.

And, before anybody gets irritated at me for my opinion, I HAVE done my fair share with strays. I have had three pregnant females dumped on me, each of which had 5 kittens. I caught every last one of them. I had them all spayed and castrated, shots given, wormed, the works. I litter trained every last one of them. They were still outside cats, but they had their own building with a heated room, litter boxes, a steady supply of food and water. I don't even LIKE cats. They annoy me to death, but I think I did my fair share. Even now, I'm feeding a stray cat in my neighborhood because she's a total sweetie and isn't coming here to destroy things. She likes attention and she comes to eat. I'm good with that. When they start destroying my screens, scratching the crap out of my paint job, attacking my dogs, trying to get in my chin barn? They are GONE.

 

[Jeanette]

Maybe you should send all your feral cats here, so they get good homes(since there is so many looking for a cat or kitten), rather than kill them?

These cats would tear a hole right through you, all of your furniture, pee everywhere, and be miserable from being indoors.

It's like trying to keep a wild bear in your house. If you've never seen them, you can't understand. These cats carry disease, reproduce like crazy, kill other people's pets, etc.

Yes, it's sad to have to kill the cats, but when you are trapped inside of your house, can't walk your dogs, let your kids play on the swings (for fear of being attacked or because there are cat feces and urine all over including the swings), it gets a little bit ridiculous.

ETA: Even though I live in a huge city, I come from a place rural enough to know. I love my cat and would be heartbroken to see anything happen to her!
Oh, and she was a STRAY that I found in a park!

 

[Jenn]

These cats would tear a hole right through you, all of your furniture, pee everywhere, and be miserable from being indoors.

It's like trying to keep a wild bear in your house. If you've never seen them, you can't understand. These cats carry disease, reproduce like crazy, kill other people's pets, etc.

Yes, it's sad to have to kill the cats, but when you are trapped inside of your house, can't walk your dogs, let your kids play on the swings (for fear of being attacked or because there are cat feces and urine all over including the swings), it gets a little bit ridiculous.

ETA: Even though I live in a huge city, I come from a place rural enough to know. I love my cat and would be heartbroken to see anything happen to her!
Oh, and she was a STRAY that I found in a park!

I agree with what you are saying except for being trapped in your house for fear of being attacked by a feral cat. I would be fearful of the disease and waste, but not by the cat itself. I have been around feral cats and strays, and they don't want anywhere near people. This is not the case with another animal of course, the cat might attack or defend itself or it's food, but they don't come after people. And if given half the chance, some of these cats can be socialized. I love cats to death, and agree there is a real problem. I don't know who should be responsible to fix this. But for those of you who let your house cats go out, make sure they are fixed so they are not out wandering the neighborhood causing more unwanted cats.

 

[bell]

Riven I know how you feel about cats. Although the ones here are not strays, but pets (not ours). They have caused probably 2,000 in damages (peeing on cushions , scratching underpenning, killing fish in our pond which is over 1,000 in damages alone, scratching hoods of cars, peeing on porch, etc.). If we could of caught the cat doing any of the following as in on camera we could of done something but otherwise we where not allowed.

 

[lilchinchilla]

Well, when I was little, my mother used to take in feral cats all the time(back then in the 80's - there definitely WAS an issue of cats being abandoned or living outside like wild animals. I personally haven't seen it so much with cats the past 15 or so years though - it's been quite the opposite actually-especially in Nanaimo. For every one cat for sale ad I see, there is like 12 cat/kitten wanted ads.), ones who were not very nice at all.

We had one named Scratch for a reason. She was thrown off the bridge in a garbage bag in Nanaimo, found in the garbage bag and the person who found her said that if someone didn't pick her up they would put her to sleep.

She was caged the entire time while at their place and wouldn't let anyone get near her or touch her. My mother wanted her anyways. She's always been that type to take the pet no one else wants.

She wouldn't let anyone touch her and yes we had quite a few days of being scratched on the forehead, arms, face..etc... it wasn't nice.

Couldn't touch her, she definitely acted miserable being indoors for the first few weeks too. It took some time but she ended up being the sweetest cat my mother owned. She would drool for such a long time if you rubbed her back, she no longer scratched anyone, and turned out to be one of my mother's favorite cats.

My mother has taken in other cats when I was younger too, I guess a total of seven different cats, one lived in the dam, one moved into a neighbour's garage, all were unfriendly and unpleasant but she took them in, spayed or neutered them and treated them like any other pet of hers. It may have taken a few weeks, months or in one's case a little over a year, but every single one went from unfriendly to friendly and a house cat in no time.

I don't think they would reproduce like crazy if they were neutered or spayed, jmo. I'm not trying to argue or say you shouldn't do what you do, but I do think there is alternatives than just getting the ol' shotgun out and shooting them dead. :winkers:

 

[Riven]

Also the cats that are out in the wild are usually sick, with URI, FIV, parisites, and other illness

Which is a concern of mine, I do have one cat who goes outside on occassion, he always stays in the yard and is within calling distance, if I call him, he comes. He likes to go out and hang out around the chin house and hunt.

I'd never use a shot gun, I'd use the 22! I am actually a very good shot, but I'd prefer not to shoot a: in town ( we are on the very edge and do have neighbors b: anything I'm not going to eat ( I don't like chinese that much, just kidding! ) c: anything that might get away and live maimed and/or suffering.

Which is why I'm trapping, starting tonight BTW! Picked up the trap from mom's. I'm not heartless.

I've tried the shoot to scare, and it no longer scares them because they know I won't hit them, the actually probably laugh at my "poor shooting skills". If I had the resources, I could honestly say I'd not start a cat rescue for these guys... I like cats... but it's just not my deal. But I'm not against giving them a chance at a good life, as long as it's somewhere else.

I'd like to tell a little story about a real event that happened because of these cats, other than stepping in cat crap, watching them use my horse hay has a litter box ( would anyone here want to feed their horses, especially one that currently struggling to survive, pee covered hay?), using the sand box for a litter box...

It was a nice summer day, I washed the car and cleaned it out, vacuumed, the whole bit. Parked it in the shade with the windows down, and stupidly I left some chocolate treat thing on the passenger seat. It was one of the individually packaged deals, like a Little Debbie snack cake.

That evening we went to go out and meet some friends. I get in the car and the snack cat is torn apart... chocolate all over my car. In the heat it melted, then a cat ripped it apart to eat it... all over my car. I clean it up, cussing the whole time. Get in, we're now running late. I keep smelling this stink the whole 30 minute drive to town. And I can't place it.. and it's not going away. The seat was damp, but I thought I just didn't get it dry from some areas I scrubbed. We get there and my friend says... I smell cat pee... Oh it was cat pee alright, and I sat in it the whole way to town. I didn't have a change of clothes... I was embarrassed to even be around people reeking of cat piss.

If anyone would like to "adopt" one of the local strays, I'll totally have it neutered/spayed and let it go again for you. But at $100 a pop.. I'm not doing it. And it won't solve the problem, it will reduce it in the future yes. But it won't solve it. Those same cats will keep spraying my door, peeing in my car, freaking out on my dog, and all the great things I "love" about them now.

I did find someone who would take five of them for their farm, just something to catch mice in their barn. The rest will go to the HS unless I find another farm that would like them.