"Dwarf" Chinchillas

[starleomach]

I have had 2 "dwarves" born here. Both times I split the parents up. They had short stubby tails and short Stubby feet. Heads that I am not even sure how to properly describe. I kept the female so that I could be 100% sure she would never be bred and sold the male to a pet home for 50.00 Not something that should be bred for but they do exist.

The female I kept has cronic eye issues and freakishly small eyes and is very out of proportion but otherwise is very healthy and has been alive for about 13 years.

 

[Vcchinchilla]

any pictures??
i'd love to see what they look like

 

[chechinchillas]

Mary Ann Holden from questhavenpets.com used to breed them for many years, but she stopped and said they had a higher rate of rectal prolasped. She said it was a recessive. I have tried to get her to write an article on them. I had a dwarf born from normal parents and sold her as a pet, letting the customer know I did not know how it would affect the life span, health, etc. She is doing very well and is really cute, but I would not breed for them intentionally. I kept the parents together and they haven't ever had another dwarf chin, but all beautiful normal sized babies. The litter the dwarf was in had a normal sized kit also.

 

[lauralynne]

Just wondering if wide, short & hairy feet is a characteristic of a dwarf or is this a manifestation of something else?

I thought that was a characteristic of a hobbit. JK. Couldn't help myself.:tease:

 

[EMSChins]

Well we did name him Frodo for a reason!

 

[RDZCRanch]

How do you know they are actual dwarfs and not just a mutation, just curious.

Dwarfism IS a mutation.

Kathy, the "dwarfism" you have and the dwarfism I am talking about may have some similar features but they are not the same type of dwarfism. All types of dwarfism will have similar features...that does not make them the same. I do not breed dwarves, but have worked closely with the remaining lines in CA from Maryanne Holden's herd. The pictures of these dwarves can be found on 4Everchins website which Dawn linked to, but she is not the best photographer and doesn't necessarily bathe and groom each chinchilla before taking a photo. Next time I see Summer, I will ask her to bring a dwarf and take some pictures.

There are at least two other breeders in Southern California that are breeding dwarves from Maryanne's lines. I haven't been in contact with one for a couple of years, but last I heard she still has her dwarves.

 

[Andrea]

They are very "cute" but I think it is wrong to breed for them. Whenever something is made to be smaller or the "dwarf" if what it is meant to be, health problems almost always arise. If someone really wanted a "dwarf" chinchilla, I'd say to just get one that is small, but not mutated.

 

[Riven]

Dwarves has traits other than just being small. They have the flat broad head, usually small ears, wide hips, curly tail and an unusual hobble like gait. I've found they also tend to have other "twitchy" motions as well, and tend to have unique personalities.

Smidgen and Becka are both dwarves that I had here from other breeders.

 

[Andyandmychins]

I have to agree with RDZC Ranch, the dwarfs Summer breeds are not poor quality, and she should not be put down for breeding dwarfs Dawn, she is very focused on improving this gene and has bred some very great quality dwarfs.

 

[ticklechin]

This is a debate section, and that is my opinion that I think its gross, you cannot tell me or anyone what not to say, that is called self policing and its not allowed, read the forum rules.

 

[Andyandmychins]

I was simply sharing MY opinion just like you, my opinion was that her dwarfs are great quality and that she shouldn't be put down for breeding dwarves.

 

[starleomach]

Dwarves pop up in almost every herd now and again. Most reputable breeders split the pairs up as soon as that happens. They are cute but they are a novelty. They are not bred for show and are bred for profit for the most part. I am not saying that as an insult. If you can breed something and sell it to feed the rest of the herd, there is nothing wrong with that. That is why most of us sell babies. to pay the feed bill and provide care for the chinchillas

 

[ticklechin]

I was simply sharing MY opinion just like you, my opinion was that her dwarfs are great quality and that she shouldn't be put down for breeding dwarves.

Are they great enough quality to show and win? Does breeding dwarves improve the species something breeders spout out to new breeders all the time? How does that improve the species and how does it work into the whole thing of "breeding for pelt quality" that is also spouted out by breeders. Can anyone point out a dwarf that has won a show? And how are you qualified to state that the dwarves are great quality, where did you get your training since you appear to be a newbie breeder and have had chins for like a year?


11-25-2011, 10:53 AM
Andyandmychins
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Three Rivers, California
Posts: 62
Chinchillas: 7



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I got my first two chins when I was twelve, about two and a half months from being thirteen. Now I am up to seven and I am thirteen.

 

[RDZCRanch]

Are they great enough quality to show and win? Does breeding dwarves improve the species something breeders spout out to new breeders all the time? How does that improve the species and how does it work into the whole thing of "breeding for pelt quality" that is also spouted out by breeders. Can anyone point out a dwarf that has won a show? And how are you qualified to state that the dwarves are great quality, where did you get your training since you appear to be a newbie breeder and have had chins for like a year?

This is exactly why I didn't respond to you directly, Dawn. It was clear from your very first post to this thread that you were looking for a "fight". Since you are attacking a child, I'm going to go ahead and step in here to help him.

Since you are not a breeder, it's difficult to explain breeding practices to you. You take one sentence at face value and run with it. Breeding quality, show quality, and pelt quality are three different things. All three are quality that breeders can and do utilize but each needs to be used in a different capacity. A quality breeder should be able to tell what animals are breeding quality. Breeding quality are the animals that are healthy and have the potential to produce high show quality or high pelt quality offspring. They are not necessarily show or pelt quality themselves. Show quality animals are not necessarily pelt quality animals. Show animals are judged by their pelts, but it is not entirely to a pelt standard. Pelt animals are longer bodied because a longer pelt gets you more money than a short, wide pelt. Longer bodied animals on the show table do not go as far because we want large, blocky animals.

As for the dwarves. I already answered you in a previous post, but you've ignored it. As long as the dwarfism is healthy and shows no unusual ill health effects, I see no problem with a quality breeder breeding them for profit. The dwarves that Summer has have lived to old ages or are still going at older ages. She breeds them to quality animals. Her pictures may not be the best, but they look just like that .com chinchilla in person. They aren't being bred for the show table, but they are bred to show standards. There is no category for dwarves, so how would they have won a top of the table award? Their specific body mutation does not have a category at shows because the shows are still geared more towards pelting ranchers. Unlike multiple mutations or new color coat mutations, the dwarves would need their own category because they truly are a "new" mutation in terms of what is already on the show table. Pelting ranchers do not see value in dwarves because they are a pet market commodity and would make very small pelts.

If some random joe schmoe "breader" wants to take my approval of Summer breeding dwarf chinchillas as pets as "I can breed anything for pets", then they can go on ahead and do that. Chances are, they were going to do that from the beginning anyhow.

 

[ticklechin]

If the child wants to participate in the debate section, the child should speak for themselves, I really don't care what you think, you are not going to change my opinion or bully me like you bully other people all the time, dwarves are freaks of nature and breeding them is gross, you can use all the show technology and prattle you want and I am sure others are going to agree with you because that is the way it is in the show world, I can say out loud what others are thinking because I don't care what others think about me and don't have to be anyone's sycophant.

 

[RDZCRanch]

If the child wants to participate in the debate section, the child should speak for themselves, I really don't care what you think, you are not going to change my opinion or bully me like you bully other people all the time, dwarves are freaks of nature and breeding them is gross, you can use all the show technology and prattle you want and I am sure others are going to agree with you because that is the way it is in the show world, I can say out loud what others are thinking because I don't care what others think about me and don't have to be anyone's sycophant.

If using logic is bullying, you got me. Unlike how you seem to think, Dawn, I do value your opinion which is why I did not post before now. You are entitled to your opinion and nowhere in my post did I say I was out to get everyone on CnH to agree with me. I'm informing you, since you are not a breeder and are not privy to how breeders think and set up breeding lines. Since you are an adult capable of thinking, you can form your own opinions. To me, having more information helps me form a better opinion.

He's a child that saw a verbal put down of a breeder who has been very kind to him. Why wouldn't he respond in defense of her? How does that make it so that he is more capable of entering into a debate with adults many years his senior? He does not have the same capability for reason and logic that adults do, simply because his brain is not done developing. I still fail to understand this need to ridicule and pick on teenagers on this forum simply because they got an account and felt free to post their opinion or current thought.


**ETA: from my previous post, I meant new color coat mutations as in the new color coat mutations that fall under the categories we already have (i.e. the Lowe recessive whites falling under the beige coat category). Truly "new" color coat mutations would also need their own new category to be judged appropriately.

 

[ticklechin]

I really don't care about the ins and out of breeding, it has nothing to with breeding dwarves and what I think about it. And 13 years old is not a little kid in diapers, the 13 year old should be able to stick up for themselves, if they can breed chins they can deal with the questions of their qualifications to state a chin is quality, first they need to deal with colors and husbandry since there seems to be much to learn there.

 

[RDZCRanch]

I'm confused on how the ins and outs of breeding had nothing to do with breeding a "new" mutation?

I disagree about the 13 year old. I could go into greater detail, but the fact of the matter is that he is a teenager. Teenagers do not have the same connections in their brains as adults do, therefore, holding them to the same standards in a debate as you would an adult is ludicrous. Yes, they can type, they can talk, they can form opinions. The reasoning and thinking behind those opinions are far inferior to an adult. Arguing with a child is futile and serves only to make the adult feel "superior" to someone far younger than themselves.

 

[ticklechin]

Since this has gone off topic, my opinion on it has been stated and I have nothing more to add I am done with this debate, I would like the OP to state his opinion since he has been silent from the start or even the person who breeds the dwarves since she is a member, but I have nothing further to say.

 

[Slanginhard]

First statement I have to make is "Chinchillas have a LIFE". If the doctor gave you and your spouse a option to have a dwarf baby, that is cute but may have complications later in life or a perfect baby what one would u pick? Of course the perfect baby!!! It is not ticklechins opinion it is FACT that a dwarf has more complications then non dwarf. So why would you breed something that has more risk to be in pain and die? Only reasons why I could see is boredom and money. Neither of them two reason are because you care!!! ps. if your 13 years old in my opinion you shouldnt be breeding.