How can you say your dog came from a respected breeder and then say they failed to tell you about health issues? Sounds more like a backyard breeder who is still managing to win ribbons. I do not think shows care about how an animal is obtained or even it's background. In fact I'm fairly certain that there are tons of purebred dogs that come from puppy mills and are shown. At puppy mills they have been known to kill any puppy that doesn't come out perfectly. Chihuahaus in my opinion weren't created by good breeding practices. The breed as a whole has health issues and behavior issues. My sister's had her chihuahua for over a year now. She's been unable to potty train him and he's aggressive. He actually will nip at people who try to pet him. If a breeder continues to breed animals that have all these well known issues then I don't think they should be considered a "respected" breeder. Also, respected by who? I'd prefer reputable and ethical when describing a breeder I bought from.
Curious about pedigrees
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How can you say your dog came from a respected breeder and then say they failed to tell you about health issues? Sounds more like a backyard breeder who is still managing to win ribbons. I do not think shows care about how an animal is obtained or even it's background. In fact I'm fairly certain that there are tons of purebred dogs that come from puppy mills and are shown. At puppy mills they have been known to kill any puppy that doesn't come out perfectly. Chihuahaus in my opinion weren't created by good breeding practices. The breed as a whole has health issues and behavior issues. My sister's had her chihuahua for over a year now. She's been unable to potty train him and he's aggressive. He actually will nip at people who try to pet him. If a breeder continues to breed animals that have all these well known issues then I don't think they should be considered a "respected" breeder. Also, respected by who? I'd prefer reputable and ethical when describing a breeder I bought from.
Amphy64
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2011
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- 224
Because his breeder is well-known and respected by other breeders within the Kennel Club (and most certainly not a backyard breeder). It's not the same thing as being responsible. That was my point. It's the case with so many pedigree dogs that they have genetic health issues, and in some cases the breed standard itself leads to breeding for traits that will inevitably cause health issues. So, in dogs, a pedigree isn't at all an indicator a dog will be healthy - it can kind of be the opposite.
Sorry to hear your sister has had problems with her chi, I've known a lot of nice natured chihuahuas, mine is fine temperament-wise, a very cheerful little dog. I don't think it's the breed itself, it's irresponsible breeders.
A pedigree is just a piece of paper. It does not mean the resultant chinchilla is healthy. A piece of paper can be fabricated to show anything.
Having said that, I totally agree with some of the comments here - without a pedigree, how do you know what you're dealing with? How do you know what the background is and whether recessives are hidden in the line? How do you know how closely the lines have/have not been bred?
Studying a pedigree is very important if one wants to plan what to do with the particular bought.
What counts is whether one trusts the breeder as well as the contents of the pedigree ........
Having said that, I totally agree with some of the comments here - without a pedigree, how do you know what you're dealing with? How do you know what the background is and whether recessives are hidden in the line? How do you know how closely the lines have/have not been bred?
Studying a pedigree is very important if one wants to plan what to do with the particular bought.
What counts is whether one trusts the breeder as well as the contents of the pedigree ........
chechinchillas
hmmmmmmm
Even if you buy the highest quality of animals, wait until they are all 3 to 5 years old before breeding and have pedigrees, you can't guarantee that you will never produce an animal that may eventually have malo or some other disease. But to give you the best possible chance of producing healthy and high quality kits you would want to start with breeding animals that are from a reputable breeder and any reputable breeder is going to pedigree all of their animals. A pedigree could be fabricated, but you can go to a breeder who has a good reputation and knows their lines and the lines from other breeders that are in their herd. Never take a chance on breeding an animal when you don't know the health history, that's just asking for trouble.
starleomach
Dawnna's Keeper
what it comes down to is please do not breed your two rescues together, I know you say you are not going to and she came pregnant but every single person who has two chinchillas of the oposite sex and don't know the background ask these exact same questions saying they are just curious and they end up breeding them, leaving rescues to clean up the mess..
Just because a chinchilla has a uterus does not mean it can be bred or should be bred.
Just because a chinchilla has a uterus does not mean it can be bred or should be bred.
Vyxxin
RAF Chins
Wanted to ad, just having a rescue chinchilla says something. While not currently to the extent of dogs or cats, no, "rescue" chinchillas ARE on the extreme rise. Period. Maybe it doesn't show as much...but I see cases of dogs being surrendered...mostly one at a time...then I see chinchillas being surrendered and it's rarely one at a time.
Point being, there are already SO many chinchillas in rescue...and not enough rescues to go around. Furthermore, chinchillas (in general) have a longer life expectancy than dogs or cats. Even the best quality chinchillas get passed around a few times in their lifespan on average because of this. When I breed a chinchilla, and sell it, I always tell the buyer they have the option of bringing it back to me. Period.
A breeder of any animal should have a goal in mind when breeding. The front of that goal should be healthy chinchillas and (IMO) good temperament. While a lot of breeders don't consider this an issue, when any chin winds up in rescue temperament IS an issue.
SO, health is the top consideration...if you have no known background you cannot tell if there are any defects in the lineage. You can breed a perfectly healthy one year old...if it's a female by age two you may already have two litters and 2-6 (or more) kits. At age two you get a weepy eye...teeth grinding...vet trip. Malo...all her kits are now at LEAST carriers.
Next consideration would be quality. You can look at a nice dark standard, big and blocky, perfect speciment. No known history. You breed it with the hopes of getting nice big blocky dark standards. All you get are narrow, runts with poor, and light, veiling coverage. Why? Well because your chin is a fluke, his parents were both poorly bred, poorly veiled animals that came from long lines of the same. So that's the quality aspect, as an example.
Finally, color. You're hoping to breed nice grays as that is your GOAL (keep this GOAL thing in mind). You pair your standard up with another standard. Both appear to be decent quality standards. You get a bunch of muddy bellied, off color babies. WHY? Because somewhere back in the lineage was a poorly colored ebony.
Another thing to consider is say a new mutation pops up in your pairings. You get something unique, something worth working with. For arguements sake, you pair up your gray chin with another gray chin (to simplify) and get (viola) a black velvet. This is the most stunning black velvet the judges have ever seen. It takes GSC easily...you now have a worthless mutation that you cannot figure out how you got because you do not know anything about the parents.
There's just no purpose in breeding a chinchilla of unknown heritage. The outcome would be more pet chins which may or may not be healthy and, if well tempered enough, you can easily place in some pet homes. Fine, all well and good, until...wait...there are no more homes...or your chin is bounced around to 7 different homes in two years. Who benefits from that? Surely not the rescues
Have a goal in mind. If you want to breed, why not spend the extra penny for a nice animal and go to some shows...get educated...do things right.
Point being, there are already SO many chinchillas in rescue...and not enough rescues to go around. Furthermore, chinchillas (in general) have a longer life expectancy than dogs or cats. Even the best quality chinchillas get passed around a few times in their lifespan on average because of this. When I breed a chinchilla, and sell it, I always tell the buyer they have the option of bringing it back to me. Period.
A breeder of any animal should have a goal in mind when breeding. The front of that goal should be healthy chinchillas and (IMO) good temperament. While a lot of breeders don't consider this an issue, when any chin winds up in rescue temperament IS an issue.
SO, health is the top consideration...if you have no known background you cannot tell if there are any defects in the lineage. You can breed a perfectly healthy one year old...if it's a female by age two you may already have two litters and 2-6 (or more) kits. At age two you get a weepy eye...teeth grinding...vet trip. Malo...all her kits are now at LEAST carriers.
Next consideration would be quality. You can look at a nice dark standard, big and blocky, perfect speciment. No known history. You breed it with the hopes of getting nice big blocky dark standards. All you get are narrow, runts with poor, and light, veiling coverage. Why? Well because your chin is a fluke, his parents were both poorly bred, poorly veiled animals that came from long lines of the same. So that's the quality aspect, as an example.
Finally, color. You're hoping to breed nice grays as that is your GOAL (keep this GOAL thing in mind). You pair your standard up with another standard. Both appear to be decent quality standards. You get a bunch of muddy bellied, off color babies. WHY? Because somewhere back in the lineage was a poorly colored ebony.
Another thing to consider is say a new mutation pops up in your pairings. You get something unique, something worth working with. For arguements sake, you pair up your gray chin with another gray chin (to simplify) and get (viola) a black velvet. This is the most stunning black velvet the judges have ever seen. It takes GSC easily...you now have a worthless mutation that you cannot figure out how you got because you do not know anything about the parents.
There's just no purpose in breeding a chinchilla of unknown heritage. The outcome would be more pet chins which may or may not be healthy and, if well tempered enough, you can easily place in some pet homes. Fine, all well and good, until...wait...there are no more homes...or your chin is bounced around to 7 different homes in two years. Who benefits from that? Surely not the rescues
Have a goal in mind. If you want to breed, why not spend the extra penny for a nice animal and go to some shows...get educated...do things right.
ticklechin
Well-known member
Why does there have to be a difference between breeding for quality and breeding for pets, I can't stand that term backyard breeders use, I am just breeding for pets. Don't people think that people who buy chins as pets also want gorgeous chins? Why if given the choice would I want a rat faced cheese wedge over a brick with legs?
I'm not real sure where these people got the idea that pedigreed chins are going to be vicious biting beasts, but it bugs me. ANY chin that leaves my barn has the potential to be a fantastic pet, or a standoffish one. I don't breed prima donna wenches who would rather pee on you or bite you than look at you. Chins are, by nature, gentle animals. Just because they come from a breeder doesn't automatically make them nasty.
There is nothing wrong with a ratty, wedgy chin - all breeders produce them and I'm glad they find homes. But I agree with Dawn - Why wouldn't you want a big brick of a squishy chin as a pet? Arnold, my violet male who lives with Dixie, is an incredible squish. You pick him up and he just cuddles into your chest. He's a brick, 900 gm, and he's from a large rancher. Huh - guess not all pedigreed chins are heathens.
Maybe this mindset comes from the dog world. People see these prissy dogs in a show and think all pedigreed animals are like that. So many dogs are treated like a project rather than a dog when they are shown. If they are standoffish and cranky, it's because they have been raised to be pretty not nice.
saphire
Christiane's Chinchillas
What I am about to say is something I believe is as important as getting information on breeding.
When you are ready to do so, make sure you do your homework in choosing your mentor.
Their is the homework to be done as far as what breeding is all about, and homework in finding the responsible mentor for you.
I say this because, when I first wanted to breed, because living in the country I did not have internet and very limited access to information I went to a BYB. I did not know he was a BYB for all looked kosher. Likely I did not breed them. Life was good to me and I met someone who guided me to the right people for responsible breeding.
My goal when starting was to improve health and quality because my first two chinchillas bought from a pet store died at the age of 2 and 21/2 from genetic issues.
Be vigilent and don't be afraid to ask even if sometimes we don't like where the answers are going or making us feel. At least they are straight forward and true. I would trust them way before I trust the one that tells me everything is hunky dorry. See my point
When you are ready to do so, make sure you do your homework in choosing your mentor.
Their is the homework to be done as far as what breeding is all about, and homework in finding the responsible mentor for you.
I say this because, when I first wanted to breed, because living in the country I did not have internet and very limited access to information I went to a BYB. I did not know he was a BYB for all looked kosher. Likely I did not breed them. Life was good to me and I met someone who guided me to the right people for responsible breeding.
My goal when starting was to improve health and quality because my first two chinchillas bought from a pet store died at the age of 2 and 21/2 from genetic issues.
Be vigilent and don't be afraid to ask even if sometimes we don't like where the answers are going or making us feel. At least they are straight forward and true. I would trust them way before I trust the one that tells me everything is hunky dorry. See my point
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You all have had such great input, I really appreciate it! Its been nice to hear from people with real experience because information that I have found online regarding pedigrees doesn't really explain it that well or in great depth.
I remember the morning the babies were born, I was just about to leave work work and went to pet Peach goodbye.....and, tada...two extra heads were in the cage with her! Totally caught me off guard and kinda freaked me out a bit. The first few days I was worried about them because they looked so small and fragile, yet they were curious little buggers (still are!). With time, as I watched them begin to grow, I started to see that they were doing alright for themselves. I had always heard that breeding chins without papers was bad, but here were these two baby girls that seemed to be doing well so far. That's when I got curious about pedigrees and how it all works exactly. All the info you guys have provided has been really interesting!
I remember the morning the babies were born, I was just about to leave work work and went to pet Peach goodbye.....and, tada...two extra heads were in the cage with her! Totally caught me off guard and kinda freaked me out a bit. The first few days I was worried about them because they looked so small and fragile, yet they were curious little buggers (still are!). With time, as I watched them begin to grow, I started to see that they were doing alright for themselves. I had always heard that breeding chins without papers was bad, but here were these two baby girls that seemed to be doing well so far. That's when I got curious about pedigrees and how it all works exactly. All the info you guys have provided has been really interesting!
