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When I first began, without the benefit of a computor, all I had to go by was word of mouth from a small circle of chin owners and breeders, and a few books.
After joining C+Q's, I learned that raisins and peanuts were not "acceptable" treats, although I hadn't any problems I was aware of, and no constipation or diarea problems.
Did have a girl who bought 2 brothers from me, who didn't listen, give the boys fresh carrots on advise from Petdumb - one gorged himself and died overnight, the other she returned, stating she "couldn't handle the heartbreak", that I still have, and he's in perfect health! Guess he didn't like carrots.
I still give the occasional raisin, no peanuts, shreddies, apple twigs, etc., but have found they'd rather have LifeLine in a paste, which is much better for them, 2-3 times a week! Guess they consider it a treat!
 
Eww Jessica - stop. Nothing grosses me out like old people finger and toenails. I actually got a little queasy and light-headed just thinking about it.

It's a shame that a good pet owner can't be as consistent with their own diet as they are with their animals, isn't it? We would all be a lot healther (and slimmer) if we were.

I am very strict in what my dogs get, only giving good kibble and fresh water, and for treats they get raw veggies. With the chins, it's good quality pellets, hay, and water - no junk food. With all the animals, they get diets that have proven over time to work for them. Then you get asked for "scientific evidence" when it comes to chins. I'm right behind Jessica and Nicole. It doesn't have to be written up in a journal and published to know what works. Ranchers animals live much longer than pet owners do. Ask the breeders who still have animals in breeding at 20 and even 30 years of age (male on the 30, obviously). How many pet owners have we seen come through that had that kind of longevity in their animal? Two that I can think of.

If you've been around long term breeders and been able to pick their brains, this question is really not needing an answer. It already has been answered by people who have forgotten more about chins than new comers and even vets will ever know.
 
I think about raisins and other dried fruits the same way I would see giving ice cream to your child. Is it the most healthy thing for them? Probably not, but once in a while is ok, and you enjoy watching them enjoy it. Certainly it's not something that should be done every day. But, honestly, how many people avoid giving their children sweets EVER because it's not good for them?

I avoid giving fresh fruits and veggies because on the rare occasions I have tried it, my chins have gotten diahrrea. That doesn't mean it can't be done, I just choose not to do it with my own animals. I think some of it has to do with what they were raised on as well. For instance, if a child is raised on an organic diet, they probably will not tolerate McDonald's very well. Their digestive system just won't be used to handling it. The same is true for chins. If your chin has had variety from a young age they may be more equipped to tolerate it than a chin who has had strictly hay and pellets.
 
I have to admit I have fallen into the habit of feeding a small piece of bite size, plain shredded wheat every night. Every single chinchilla jumps for joy when I start opening the box. With over 20 chinchillas this is important to me because if a chinchilla refuses to take a piece, I know to start looking further. They are such masters at hiding illness. Other than that they get lots of wood chew treats.
 
Another thing to remember, is the more variety you give them, the longer you have to play "process of elimination" if they become ill. You no longer have it narrowed down to the hay, food, and water aspect.
 
Chins are hind gut fermenters. They rely on a healthy population of "good bacteria" (species isolated are listed in this article I posted: http://chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9345) in their gut to digest and absorb the nutrients in their food. These bacterial species require a certain environment to survive and help out with digestion... prebiotics (basically sources of high fiber and some complex carbohydrates) found in chin pellets and hay are what provide the perfect environment and nutrients for the good bacteria to flourish.

Feed a chin a sugary treat (composed of simple sugars) and you are feeding the small populations of "bad bacteria" such as Clostridium species which produce toxins and can lead to G.I. stasis or bloat ... one sugary treat may not be enough to cause the Clostridium to overgrow and take over the "good" bacteria's environment but I don't want to give my chin anything that can spur the overgrowth and cause enterotoxemia. For me, it isn't worth the risk, and the only food treats I give are rosehips and oats.
 
If anyone has a pet chin that is 12 yrs or older who has always been a pet chin, I'd love to know.

Lord Montague (Monty to his friends) was 6 days short of his 13th birthday when he was PTS earlier this year due to heart failure. He'd always been healthy up until then.


Some of the rescues I have had the pleasure of looking after at Monty's Manor:

Tubbs - he was 16+ I believe

Chong 19+ lived with Cheech her sister (she died at 18)

There have been more too but I can't recall specific ages off the top of my head. I know there are quite a few oldies that were always pets in the rescue I work with.
 
There was recently, [last year] a chin called Zinman, that lasted well into his 20's before he passed! Can't remember if he was a breeder though.
 
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I feed Tiko a cheerio or two a day, maybe a Shreddie. I am still trying to get him used to me. I personally love watching him eat treats, so sweet. I think that is why people like giving pets treats, it's because we love seeing our pets happy. Of course there's a limit to treats though :)
 
I didn't want to start a new thread on this, so sorry for reviving an old one. I tried to read over a good portion of this before I asked, but I feel more confused now.

Our vet, who is a highly recommended exotic creatures vet here in Chicago, says that chinchillas can have up to 1/2 cup of romaine per day. We've had her for 2 months (she is 4 months old) and we give her about 1 leaf per day. Is this completely wrong to do? She has never had watery or loose stool and loves the lettuce. We know about sugar being a no-no so we do raisins like once every few weeks.

Thanks guys.
 
Others can pipe in, but based on my knowledge, I think your vet is wrong and no, I wouldn't be feeding romaine or any fruits or veggies. A good pellet diet, plenty of hay and wood sticks to chew on is all a chin needs. If you must feed any treats, they should be done so very sparingly as they really don't need treats in their diet. It's more something we like to do for them. But plain cheerios, plain shredded wheat, rosehips, chin cookies, etc are better alternatives. I don't even feed raisins. Why take the chance? It is just too bad that there is so much conflicting info out there. It really makes it difficult to know what is right. But I would say the members here seem to have a lot more knowledge in properly caring for your chin than a lot of vets seem to have.
 
Based on the many nutrition, physiology and anatomy classes I've taken, I believe dark leafy greens would be fine for chinchillas. I don't think it's needed, and it gets expensive, so that's why I wouldn't do it. As long as it's introduced into the diet appropriately it is a healthy food source. I gave romaine, parsley and cilantro to one of my old chins who was on his way out. It was the only thing he'd eat and helped get some water in his diet.
Chinchillas are used to eating drier, rougher diets, which is what is emulated with a strict pellet and hay diet. Rabbits on the other hand, I like to refer to as "garden eaters". They are used to more of a varied diet, which is where the recommendations for all these fruits and vegetables come from. Most of the medical/nutritional information on chinchillas has been taken from rabbits, which isn't entirely correct, but the best people could do when they were first becoming popular.
I like rabbit.org's list leafy greens. But I would keep them as a "treat" percentage of the diet. So 10-15% of the diet, and if you figure a chin eats 1-2 tbsp of pellets a day, that equals a very very small amount of leafy greens!
 
I would be careful using that as a basis for giving anything to any animal. "Well, Petco says it's okay to put chins in runabout balls and feed them peach wood. They wouldn't do that if it wasn't okay, would they?" How many pet owners do you think buy into that? The same could be said here. Just because a breeder says it's okay, doesn't mean it is. That goes back to the thread of what defines "reputable." I know of a breeder who uses runabout balls and says they are fine and dandy. Would you use one?

In the end, what you feed your chin is your choice. If you want to fill them up with chocolate and grapes - by all means - go for it. No one can stop you. I personally prefer to feed things that I absolutely know will not harm my chins. Good quality feed, good quality hay, and the very occasional, if any, treat. I give safe wood chews as a treat or hay cubes, and the chins love it. They don't miss what they don't have and they don't crave what I feel is treat given because the owner wants them to have it, not because they should. Then again, my dogs eat dog food. They don't get table scraps at all. I'm not big on treats for any animal.

I don't think it's going to kill a chin to give it raisins now and again, but there are better options and I would choose to use those. Asking for scientific anything when it comes to chins is a waste of breath and page space. There isn't any truly good research that has been done with chins. There's one guy who fed his chins fruit and they didn't die right away, therefore, fruit is okay. There's another guy who never fed his chins fruit and they lived a really long time, so that's okay too. Then again, there's the one who fed his chins cornflakes, Doritos, french fries, and rootbeer (yes, on CnQ there was one), and his did fine too. Would you feed that to a chin? I'm sure he extolled the virtues of feeding everything plus the kitchen sink to his chins, but shouldn't you use just a tad of common sense there?

I think this sums it up best...
 
I would suggest a new vet. Even of they were ok, at that young of an age, lettuce and anything with high sugar is bad. I would stop all of that. There are so many better options
 
For everyone that recommends a new vet - who here has extensive research in this stuff? Or a degree? I'd much rather trust a vet or a breeder than someone who just owns a couple of chinchillas.

The debate for me isn't fruits/veggies (she will not have any, and we've never given her fruit or veggies) but simply romaine lettuce - it is not a green that causes bloat, or gas or anything like spinach or kale (which is an absolute no-no for chins) would.

I'm not trying to come off as rude or anything, but would sincerely love to hear debate/opinions on it.

Sure, it doesn't eat romaine in its natural habitat - but how much of the wood that is deemed "safe" for chinchillas actually grow in the Andes? Surely apple wood doesn't grow there, and neither does grapevine.
 
fourfourtwo:

I took my malo chin to Dr. Clarkson at Midwest Exotic Animal Hospital. The chinvet from this forum also recommended them. Dr. Clarkson was excellent with the filings that my chin had to have. I must have gone in with CJ for filings, etc.. a dozen times. Yes, they recommended the leafy greens but once I discussed my concerns and issues with it, they dropped it. Dr. Clarkson's care and knowledge about malo and how to treat it and move forward was my main concern with my chinchilla.

Taken from veterinarian questions and answers section on this forum:

The question asked is:
Regarding chinchilla nutrition: More and more lately vets are recommending "the new way" of feeding chinchillas by switching them off of pelleted feeds onto a fresh vegetable (greens) diet.

What is the proper diet for a chinchilla? Is there a place for fresh leafy greens in that diet? What could be some of the dentrimental effects of fresh leafy greens for a chinchilla?
And the answer:

This is a good one - here we go...

The proper diet for an adult, non-breeding chinchilla is grass hay (preferably Timothy, but Orchard grass, Oat hay, and Brome hay are all acceptable) as 90% - 95% of the diet. It should be free choice, so therefore available at all times. Pellets are recommended at 2 tablespoons twice a day. That is the best diet to maintain dental and GI tract health. I actually know a board certified exotics specialist who has a pet chin that she only feeds hay - no pellets, treats, or greens at all and she is doing great - for about 6 years now.

I think the vets that are recommending this "new way" of feeding are basing their reasons on rabbit and guinea pig nutrition facts. I could possibly see some benefit to feeding greens - it gets more water into the chin and maybe that would decrease chances of bladder stones and urinary problems, but, maybe they would just drink less because they are not as thirsty, so who knows?? Side effects are wet, sticky poops from unfamiliar fermantation processes and possibly too much water in the diet. The other thought would be : what if they are eating more greens than hay? Greens are not coarse enough to wear down chinchilla molars, so over long periods of time, dental disease may develop. This is all speculation, of course, because proper studies have not been conducted, however, if you find all of the specialists and ask them, greens are not part of a normal chinchilla diet.

In my opinion, I do not feel that it is necessary to feed greens to keep your chinchillas healthy. All they really need is hay and water!

Angela Keffer, VMD
 
I have worked in the vet field for 15 yrs. When vets are in school they get minimal exotics training unless that is their specialty. So they always relate chins to rabbits and guinea pigs, who's dietary needs are similar. So I could see how they would think a chin might be similar. If they are a exotics only vet they had plenty of trianing usually, but there aren't many continuing education classes on chinchillas to update them on the latest information. So much of what the vets know is outdated or rabbit related.

I personally feed pellets, hay and cherrios once a week or so. If they don't need it in their diet why offer it? Why mess with what works?
 
For everyone that recommends a new vet - who here has extensive research in this stuff? Or a degree? I'd much rather trust a vet or a breeder than someone who just owns a couple of chinchillas.

I'm quite sure that many people took offense at that. "Just owning a couple of chinchillas" does not negate someone's intelligence or their experience with chinchillas. I know of one person on this forum who is nothing but a pet owner and never will be anything else, who knows more about teeth in chins than any vet I have yet to find. She collects skulls with maloccluded teeth, teeth growing through the eyes, teeth growing through the jaw bone, good teeth, no teeth, whatever. When someone wants to see what something looks like in a chin's mouth, you can count on Dawn to have seen it, experienced it, or treated it. I would flat out take HER opinion over pretty much any vet in anything to do with teeth.

I know of vets who will tell you to put a chin to sleep if it has a broken limb, that it can't survive a broken limb. Really? Someone really needs to tell all those tripods out there that they should lay down and die. They are obviously doing it wrong.

I know of a breeder whose "most favorite chinchilla in the world" was prolapsing. She didn't take him to a vet. Instead, she just had her husband constantly stuff his thumb up the little guys butt, constantly pushing in the intestines. It didn't work. He died horribly and painfully. You don't even want to get me started on what some breeders do, or don't do, for their chins.

It wasn't until recently that you would even hear of a large rancher consulting a vet. Why? Because most vets know **** from shinola about chinchillas. Dreamlite is correct. If you talked to a vet who wasn't too full of himself, he would be the first to admit that they learn next to nothing about chinchillas, or any pocket pet, in vet school. I am lucky enough that I was able to find a vet who was freshly graduated, who was willing and happy to have me work with him on pocket pets. At the time I had hedgehogs, degu, rats, ferrets, rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters, chinchillas, birds, a bearded dragon, cats, dogs, and horses. He learned a LOT. He was never too proud to say "I don't know" either. He bought books specific to pocket pets. He consulted other vets. He consulted veterinary colleges when he needed to. He would be the first one to tell you, do not feed lettuce to a chin. No fruits, no vegetables, period.

I'm a breeder. I have been for around 12 years now. I would not feed lettuce to my chins, any kind of lettuce, any kind of fruit, any kind of vegetable. They don't need it. They don't even know it exists. The human that owns the chin wants to feed it that junk. A chin can't miss what they don't know. The constant need to "spice up" a chin's diet comes from the owner, not from the chin or from the chins needs.

My dogs get kibble and water. They don't get table scraps. I almost exclusively have giant breed dogs. I just put my American Bulldog, who weighed in at 145 pounds, to sleep a few months ago. He was 14. Do you know a lot of breeders whose dogs live that long? In every book I have read on AB's, they say they top out at 9.

My horses get grass, grain, and hay. I don't give them pop or chips or other crap that I've seen people do. Two of my horses died a few years back. One just went to sleep (as far as we could tell), the other had to be put down. One was 32, one was 28.

Do you see what I'm getting at here? The old timers on this forum, pet owners or breeders, are in this for the long haul. They've done their research. They've seen the results. I don't have chins bloating right and left, because I don't vary their diet with a load of crap that I "think" might be fun or healthy for them. I give them what works.

I'm not saying any of that to jump on you, just to let you know that an experienced pet owner (and by that I don't mean someone who does nothing but parrot what other people have said in threads) can be just as valuable a tool while learning about chins as a vet or a breeder can.
 
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