Chin had a long seizure, took him to the vet, have an xray,need an opinion

[Sanya]

A week after we got him he had a seizure for 3-4 minutes. We thought
he was done for, but he suddenly continued with
his usual business and was cheerful.

After a month he had a problem with his right eye. He would close it
sometimes and sometimes it would look fine.
Eye didn't look wet, but the hair around is was messed up. It seamed
to resolved itself after a week.

He poops and eats regularly even now. We have another chin that is
completely fine. Food wasn't changed and they get a raisin every 2-3
days.

-- 1 months later, last night

After his normal 10-15min time out of the cage (we let them out 4-5
times a day out of the cage), he just went into the cage and:

First had a spasm then, his whole body was shaking (small twitched)
for a second. every 3 seconds, every 1-2min several times that night.
He didn't have control over his legs, he was running and jumping badly
into things, but like he had brain damage.
He was tumbling all over, with his bum going to the side when he walked.

After few minutes of moving he would have a spasm and look like he is
going to die.
I massaged his belly and it seamed to help as he would go out of
spasm, and start running jumping again.
A few times he seamed completely fine, jumping well off the walls and such.

This was repeated for almost 2 hour until he lay in his cage shaking
uncontrollably.
Then the second chin lay next to him and he calmed down, so shaking stopped.

So he got through the night, and i went to the vet this morning. He
took an xray, which i attached.
He was much better this morning but not the same.
The vet said teeth are piercing (don't know a better word) through his
sinuses, and gave him this medicine: Cobactan 0.2ml and Cortisone
0.3ml
He said i should come tomorrow for a treatment but he doesn't know
what it will be.

He also said he will treat the sinuses/infection/teeth's situation but
doesn't know why he had that seizure.

---

So I'm posting here because frankly i trust you more then my vet, and
want an opinion about situation and xray.
I'm aware of this thread:
http://www.paw-talk.net/forums/f19/malocclusion-in-the-chinchilla-17468.html

You can see the xray here: http://i.imgur.com/fJ10L.jpg
I also have a few videos of him from last night if it helps ill upload them.

Thanks and sorry for my bad english.

 

[Stackie]

It sounds like a hypoglycemic seizure to me. Coupled with the roots growing through the sinuses, it makes sense. A chin with teeth in that condition is in pain and most likely is not eating enough if at all. That would in turn cause the low blood sugar. It commonly manifests after a chin has been active as a hypoglycemic siezure.

Unfortunately teeth in that condition can not be cured. I'm not sure what treatment regimen your vet has planned, but you may want to highly consider your chin's quality of life.

 

[ticklechin]

Cephalosporins and steroids are both not used in chinchillas, so both the corbactan and the cortisone are both inappropriate. There is no treatment for the root condition.

 

[Sanya]

So does my xray look really that bad ? When i compare it to other xray from internet to me my xray looks great, or at least the condition is the early stages ?

"but you may want to highly consider your chin's quality of life" sorry but what do you mean by that ? I need to put him down, or i need to take much better care of him ?

 

[Riven]

What a beautiful xray of such a horrible condition.

Regarding the seizures, I am actually going to say the opposite of Stacy, that is it hyperglycemic episodes. Since the OP said he is eating and pooping well, I would venture to guess that you gave a raisin before or during play time?

I personally have hypoglycemia, and there usually has to be something that causes the body to come out of that state. Usually with hypo you see shaking and sluggishness, fainting, and sometimes seizures, but usually you need intake of sugar to come out of them or the body will go into a coma state. With hyper, you will also get seizures, but generally without treatment they will eventually settle down as your body metabolizes the sugar.

Either way, I would suggest a different treat such as a plain shredded wheat.

As for the teeth, unfortunately there is nothing that will cure the issue. I'm very sorry about that. What I would do about that is consider his quality of life. It is possible that the pain caused the onset of the seizures, but less likely than say a blood sugar issue.

 

[Sanya]

During this playtime he and other chin ate very little, and i didnt give them raisin that day. I gave him one and a half during seizure, as i read i should multiple time on the internet. It seamed to make him better.

--

Two of you said "consider quality of life" what do you mean by that ?
So eventually i will have to put him down ?

Also what do you mean by "What a beautiful xray of such a horrible condition."
Again sorry for my english, but i dont understand what you mean by beautiful xray.

 

[Claire D]

When your chinchilla had the first fit, did you stop his exercise & keep him in his cage? Yous post makes it sound like he had the fit but you let him keep running about when he had recovered.
If you let him still run about then it is far more likely to be a hypoglycaemic fit than a hyperglycaemic fit, especially if he recovered after he ate the raisin pieces.

 

[Sanya]

Before both fit's happened he got in to the cage himself and had spasm in there.
I didnt give him a raisin first time because as i said he completely recovered fast and stayed inside the cage. We let him out of the cage ~12h later but for shorter time.

We basically let them out whenever they want (they chew and scratch the cage) even at 4-5am in the morning.

Last night was like spasm>running>shakes>spasm>running>shakes for 2h so i had to get him out of the cage to massage his belly when he had spasm, and i let him 'run' during that time because when he stops he looks worse. Also the second fat chin would get over him and push him all the time and i had to separate them. Didnt want that fat one bothers sick one. I cant say that raisins made him better for sure, but it kinda looked like it helped a little.

 

[Sanya]

Also right now its been 8h since he was under anesthesia (by shot, not gas). He moves slowly and doesnt open his eyes more then 1mm. He peed(?) 4-6 times since then and drank water once. He chewed hard his treat on a wooden stick (both the treat and a stick). Ate some hay and mixed food also but not very much.

 

[ticklechin]

What did the vet do to the chin while it was under anesthesia? Chins do not do well with being put under with a shot. Also my concern about the antibiotic and steroid was not addressed, these medications are not used on chinchillas.

 

[Sanya]

He did xray, gave him 2 shots (Cobactan 0.2ml and Cortisone
0.3ml) and wake him up with another shot but I don't know what was that.

 

[Riven]

I'm assuming the sedated for the xray...

There is nothing that can treat the teeth, they will continue to grow causing more pain, and possibly infection.

Quality of life refers to the quality of the life the animal is living. For example if you were living in pain all of the time and unable to move easily, unable to eat or do things on your own, your quality of life would not be as good as someone who did not have those issues.

As for a beautiful picture of a horrible disease, it's a great xray representing malo, unfortunately it represents the problems being experienced by your chin. It's a horrible disease for which there is no cure.

Sedation is very hard on them, sometimes they take a long time to come out of it, sedation by shot is not recommended because it's harder on them then the gas.

I personally would separate the chins, with both of them in one cage you can't tell which is eating how much. Do you have a current weight on the ill one?

Given the additional information it's probably that Stacie was correct, which points to the chin not getting enough to eat/malnutrition.

As Dawn said, you should not give the meds the Dr. said to chins. They generally do more harm than good.

 

[Sanya]

"it's a great xray representing malo"
So how severe is it ? On other images i saw the teeth are covering the whole eye socket and on mine they barely touch it. How much time does he have ?
I read2-3 stories where teeth went back to normal, is it possible it will happen to my chin ? Is it too early to think about euthanization ?

I dont have its weight, but ill buy a weight scale first thing in the morning.

"As Dawn said, you should not give the meds the Dr. said to chins. They generally do more harm than good." He didnt give me any medicine to give him myself, just told me to come tomorrow for another exam. This is a crappy country i would take him to a better vet if there was one.

"they will continue to grow causing more pain, and possibly infection."
I think the vet said that he thinks he already has an (eye) infection, so thats why he gave him that shots.

Thanks for your answers, it really means a lot!

 

[ticklechin]

Once teeth have elongated, there is no cure. The internet rumors of a cure are just that, rumors without any truth. When called out to prove such rumors with clinical "proof" the called out parties go off into the sunset never to be heard from again. You can treat the symptoms but you cannot treat the root problem, eventually the treatment of the symptoms will not work and the chin will decline in health rapidly.

 

[Riven]

As you said it is on the edge of the eye socket, I can't imagine the pain a chin with it growing deep into the socket would have. Basically it's like a tooth, growing into your eye...

As Dawn said there is no reversal. Sometimes chins can go into "remission" and appear to not be affected by it, but it doesn't fix itself. Basically the chin learns to live with it.

As for an eye infection, it is probably due to the teeth issues. I'm sorry about your vet issues. I can be very frustrating I'm sure. They can only treat them the best they know how...

 

[Tillygizmo]

I think what Stackie meant was that these teeth issues are progressive and unfortunately are incurable. Down the line eventually medication will not work anymore and handfeeding will be a necessity multiple times a day. I think she means its important to monitor is he is able to still "be a chinchilla" and do the things they love such as jumping around with energy, eating with an appetite, running on a wheel, chewing on things, etc.

I just through this with my Tilly...after her diagnosis we had 4 more years together. The trims at first may not be needed frequently but after awhile it could be monthly or even shorter. This can be very stressful for them which is another thing to consider down the line...its so hard and I am still not over losing her but I know I made the right decision in the end.

If it truly is beginning stages then you could possibly have a long time together.

An acceptible antiobiotic for infection is Baytril and pain medication can be Metacam (also anti inflammatory) and Tramadol. There is great info on here about how to tell if a chinchilla is in pain...I believe in Health and Hygiene section

 

[ticklechin]

The OP is in Serbia I believe, we don't have any clue what meds are avaliable there and if the vet could even figure out dosages, since this vet prescribes meds that and not used on chins due to bad side effects. And this chin is not in the beggining stages of elongation, its advanced.


This chin should not have been sent home in the condition it was in, it should have been kept for observation until completly out of the anesthesia, besides the prescription of the meds, the potential of trying to treat elongation, this is another strike against this vet.

 

[Tillygizmo]

Oops, I didn't realize she was in Serbie. Thanks Dawn. Are there other accessible vets in the area you could look into?

 

[Riven]

She stated that the vets there pretty much suck that's why she came here for help too.

A very sad deal, malo is a sad, terrible disease. You can't see it outwardly and sometimes by the time you know it's there it's so advanced.

 

[Spoof]

So how severe is it ?

It's fatal. Your chin is going to die soon, it's a matter of how soon.

On other images i saw the teeth are covering the whole eye socket and on mine they barely touch it.

Those chins look like the one at the bottom of this website in person - with open holes or missing, infected eyes. It can happen on ranches with large numbers of chinchillas if they aren't paying attention.
http://www.sunsetchinchillas.com/Malo.shtml

How much time does he have ?

From that point to death if you do nothing... 60-120 days depending on how tough he is. He'll slowly starve to death or die of an infection once the roots rupture the eye. You'd be surprised how far they can go before they die if left alone. I've seen some pretty gruesome stuff.

There is nothing you can do once those roots erupt through the bone and head for the eyes. Those are very good x-rays, may I use them for my website?