Chin Diagnosed with Statis and seems to be in lots of pain

[sheri7]

I woke up this morning around 4:30 am to find one of my 2 chins, Jezebel, making lots of peeping/chirping noises (actually at the time I thought it was my other chin Anabel). I hand fed her some hay and she was eating so I went back to bed. Got up around 8am and realized she was still peeping and then it sounded like a whistling noise coming from her nose and she just didn't seem herself, but I had to go to work. So I logged on here and read a few threads about URI's and got concerned that was what it was so I left work early to take her to the vet. When I got home she was making continious sqeaking/peeping noises that sounded to me like she was wheezing.

The Vet listened to her lungs, took x-rays and said her lungs looked and sounded clear, but there appeared to be some air in her belly (statis). She thought the sounds were probably her wincing in pain and not her breathing. She prescribed Metacam for pain, reglan to move the gut and a probiotic paste which all seems correct based on what I've read here.

The problem is my poor little Jezzie is still making the CONSTANT sounds. Its beginning to sound like whimpering and I just feel awful if she is in lots of pain.

Until today she seemed to be eating, drinking and pooping normally. She looks like she tries to eat now but I think she is mostly just pushing the hay around and then she will eat like 1/2 a pellet and just drop the other half. Last night I got a new shipment of apple sticks from someone very reputable on here and gave then new sticks, a new toy and included were pumpkin seeds that she just threw in. I gave each chin 1/2 pumpkin seed, something I have never given them before. Could that have caused this?

Is stasis very painful to a chin? I'm still kind of wondering if it isn't something else. I feel so bad for her and wonder if something else might be causing her to be so vocal?

 

[Ash]

Seeds are bad for chins, due to the fat content in them, and though they could have caused the stasis, I've always heard to them more causing issues in the livers. However, let someone more knowledgeable on that answer rather than taking my work.

As far as stasis hurting, I would think that it would hurt. I know that when it comes to constipation/bloating, the expansion of gas in the stomach and intestines can cause pain in humans. Sorry for the bit of TMI, but I know in myself it hurts (the joys of pregnancy...) so I can only assume it would be similar for a chin in stasis where there is nothing moving in the gut. Basically what stasis is would be a form of constipation, and therefore, I would assume that it could hurt pretty badly.

The whistling, however, would make me worry about a URI as well. Is she still doing the whistling sound, or is it just "normal" chin sounds now? Also, you're going to want to get critical care to handfeed your chin. Some vets carry it, otherwise Menagerie on here sells it and can overnight it, I believe. Until you can get some, you're going to want to grind up pellets and mix with water and some of the pro-biotic and force feed her. She'll need 60+mL of food every day, spread out over the course of the day. This will help get her gut moving, along with belly rubs and making her exercise. I know there is a good thread about Stasis, definitely read through that and good luck with your girl.

 

[Laurie]

I would say yes a chin with stasis would be in pain. The normal work up for stasis is is Reglan, Propulsid, and baby gas drops like Mylicon (simethicone). In addition to this you should be feeding critical care and also make sure your chin is getting plenty of fluids. You need to watch her very closely and make sure she is eating and pooping regularly. I know the vet prescribed Reglan, the propulsid is also usually prescribed and necessary for stasis. I would call the vet in the morning and see about getting a prescription for that as well. Also if you don't have critical care see if the vet office has it. If not you can get it through menagerie here on the forum

 

[sheri7]

I did get some Critical Care and was going to give her that if she didn't seem to be eating, but she does seem interested in hay and pellets, but I just don't know how much is going down. She is pawing at her mouth a little but I think its just because when we gave her first dose of everything at the vets office some got on her fur around her mouth. When I brought her home Ananbel was nibbling at Jezzies face.

I stopped at Rite Aid on my way home but could not find the baby Mylicon drops. All I could find was chewable smithecone. Would that work?

 

[Riven]

Reglan and Propulsid work with different parts of the digestion system, they should be used together.

If you don't have her on simethicone put her on it, one full dropper every 4 hours.

I would also be offering CC at this time. I suppose there is a possibility that if she's really bloated she could have pressure on her lungs causing breathing issues, but it would be shallow breathing, not whistling. Sometimes vets need to treat symptoms and signs. It's possible she has a bug or a minor URI causing congestion or inflammation that might not be seen on an xray or heard. Pleuresy for example is very painful and generally is not seen on a xray unless there is extreme inflammation of the pleural membrane.

If it was my chin with the signs you're saying I would want an antibiotic, simethicone, and be ready to hand feed.

Also bloat and stasis are not the same thing. If she is pooping she's not in stasis. Stasis refers to the gut not moving, if it's not moving, she wouldn't be pooping, and although it can set in fast, it just doesn't seem right to me. To me it just doesn't add up. URI's will cause a chin to go off feed. And chin's... don't make wincing sounds. If they do they are in EXTREME pain, usually end of days type of pain. The sounds you describe are consistent with URI, I would contact you vet and ask to have an antibiotic prescribed.

ETA: You need to separate them or you won't know who's pooping, who's eating, and who's drinking. Any type of simethicone will work, the drops are usually easier to get down, but the ingredients are the same. Also I would do belly rubs for her, if there is a gut issue it will help move things along, and she should enjoy it once she gets used to what you are doing.

 

[sheri7]

I tried to give her some CC last night but she wasnt having any of it, but she was eating a bit of pellets and hay, not much but some. I haven't been able to split them yet, but she was sitting on about 10 very small poops so I think they were from Jez as the others in the cage were normal sized. I have a smaller cage at my mothers that I am going to pick up sometime today so I can separate them to monitor her poops better. She is still making her noises which breaks my heart.

This is what the doc prescribed - does this seem right ?

Reglan 0.3 ML every 12 hrs for 7days
Metacam 0.37 ML every 24 hrs for 2-3 days
Probiotic Oral Gel 1 click every 24 hrs for 7 days

I'm also gonna get the smithecone. The doc said to give her 2 drops every 8-12 hrs.

 

[ticklechin]

Seeds are a high energy food-meaning they have high fat and protein content, chinchillas are made for a high fiber low energy diet-meaning they need a low fat and low protein diet and high fiber to keep the digestive tract moving. Fat does not move through the digestive tract well and can stall, when stalled the bad bacteria get to work and you end up with bloat and stasis since the digestive tract cannot move the fat mass (seed) fast enough. That is the short term issue with seeds, long term it can damage the liver. The seller of the seeds was told of the potential issue and a thread was started about it and it was explained why chins should not have seeds and I HOPE the seller will stop selling seeds since this is the result, there is no doubt in my mind the seed caused this problem.


That said, give the chin a full dropper full of simethicone every 2-3 hours, simethicone is inert and you cannot overdose, a few drops wont work. Make sure you massage the belly in circular motions from mid chest to anus, lift the fingers and repeat-do it for as long as you and the chin can, and get the chin running around a few times a day, exercise will help get things moving. Stasis and bloat were described to me by my vet as a pain like they are being stabbed with a hot knife, its very painful and the chin can go into shock because of the pain. Read Menageries thread on stasis here

http://chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6553


another article

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

 

[Riven]

Dawn, I know you have a lot of experience with digestive issues, have you ever had a chin have digestive issues that caused wheezing or clicking in breathing?

I think treating the digestion issues are important, but if the chin is dying of a URI you're fighting a downhill battle. No matter what you do for stasis or bloat a chin with a URI is not going to want to eat. Pain can cause heavy breathing in chins, but there should not be wheezing involved.

 

[Claire D]

I'd suggest taking her to another vet for a full assessment - you need to know whether you are dealing with a respiratory, respiratory & gut or a gut problem.

Is the chin mouth breathing?
Are her sides heaving when she breathes?
Is she sitting hunched up?
Is she pressing her belly into the floor or stretching up to the roof of the cage?

 

[StevieP]

I stopped at Rite Aid on my way home but could not find the baby Mylicon drops. All I could find was chewable smithecone. Would that work?

Look at the grocery store if they have a pharmacy section for baby gas drops. Not sure if you have a Farm Fresh or Harris Teeter up there, but they have it at 1/2 the price as the drug stores.

 

[sheri7]

Thank you for all your concern and information, I REALLY appreciate it. I got her to take her 2nd dose of Reglan and she ate a good amount of hay and ran around a little. Right now she is sleeping quietly with just a few peeping sounds here and there. I will be getting the smithecone in a few hours and will start her on that.

Its really kind of hard to describe the sound. To me I thought it was her breathing at first, but now I'm not so sure.....so I guess right now I have to trust the Vet that its not the lungs and get her pooping again. Hopefully when that happens she will stop the noises, but if not she will definitely be going back and I will make sure she sees the experienced chin vet. Unfortunately he was with another emergency and was already past his schedule when I got there last night, so he wasn't available. Damned flat tire! Was my own fault for making a U-turn where I shouldn't have and I hit the curb and slashed my tire....delayed me a good hour.

 

[sheri7]

I'd suggest taking her to another vet for a full assessment - you need to know whether you are dealing with a respiratory, respiratory & gut or a gut problem.

Is the chin mouth breathing?
Are her sides heaving when she breathes?
Is she sitting hunched up?
Is she pressing her belly into the floor or stretching up to the roof of the cage?

Is the chin mouth breathing?
No, I'm pretty sure she is breathing thru her nose
Are her sides heaving when she breathes?
No
Is she sitting hunched up?
Right now she's a little hunched but she is sleeping
Is she pressing her belly into the floor or stretching up to the roof of the cage?
No, I have not seen her do this
[/

 

[sheri7]

Would Lifeline be good for her now? She likes that usually.

 

[ticklechin]

Dawn, I know you have a lot of experience with digestive issues, have you ever had a chin have digestive issues that caused wheezing or clicking in breathing?

I think treating the digestion issues are important, but if the chin is dying of a URI you're fighting a downhill battle. No matter what you do for stasis or bloat a chin with a URI is not going to want to eat. Pain can cause heavy breathing in chins, but there should not be wheezing involved.

They can whimper as they breathe, it sounds like a whimper as they exhale and it is a soft whimper noise-I only heard that with a stasis chin not a bloat chin.

 

[ticklechin]

Would Lifeline be good for her now? She likes that usually.

I would stick with the CC due to the fiber, LL does not have the fiber CC has and the chins needs all the fiber they can get.

 

[sheri7]

Things are looking up!

I ended up taking Jezzie back to the vet today because I screwed up her meds by possibly contaminating her Reglan with the Metacam (mix up with the syringes). So I threw out what I had and went back for more. Figured since I was going back there anyway I would bring her and was able to see the experienced Dr Herko. He felt that she might have a mild URI, mainly in the nasal area because her lungs and chest still sounded clear. So now she is on Baytril too. So now I am relieved that she is being treated for the right thing. Her squeeking/wheezing/whimpering has dramatically reduced and she's started pooping. I think the simethicone has really helped.

But the best part was they asked if she wanted to be on TV! One of the Drs. there (Dr Hammond) does an animal segment on the local news channel WBAL here in Baltimore on saturday mornings. So she is scheduled to make her TV debut on Feb 5th. I thnk thats pretty cool. Hopefully she will be good as new by then.

I remember seeing another thread on here of another chin on this forum being on the show but can't remember who it was.

Again, thanks everyone who replied!

 

[Encantadora]

Great news! For both happy pieces of news.

 

[Laurie]

is it oral or injectible Baytril? Chins often lose their appetite on oral baytril. If that's the case you need to make sure you are hand feeding her if she is not eating. It doesn't always happen but it is quite common, so keep a close eye on her and prepared to hand feed if she stops.

 

[starleomach]

Often I mix a bit of Lifeline in with the Critical care. It helps increase their appatite. And it can't hurt any. Usually makes them eat more IMPO

 

[Bostongirl'sChin75]

Often I mix a bit of Lifeline in with the Critical care. It helps increase their appatite. And it can't hurt any. Usually makes them eat more IMPO

I did this too, and it really helped with the hand feedings with Herby! And I also mixed it with her crushed up pellets and it seemed to help her get back on her regular feed a bit quicker too.

Healing thoughts to you both!