420 Chinchillas Rescued

[LilBubs]

Thanks threewingedfury, you put it better than I could. I did not realize people were already adopting them. I'm not sure whether to be happy that some chinnies were rescued before being neutered, or sad that they were probably impulse purchases who may be poorly taken care of.

 

[Amphy64]

Another chin mill gone, in my opinion, all that place did was produce chinchillas and little else, good riddance to bad rubish. To call this place a ranch is a joke, they made chinchillas, had no pedigrees, showing? Yeah right, if it looks like a mill, call it a mill. I do not feel one bit sorry for those people. I find it funny that if you do a search here, some that are sticking up for them, bad mouthed them in the past. They deserve no sympathy, none.

Yeah, PETA (not surprisingly, and I certainly wouldn't trust them) clearly didn't handle the rescue well, but I don't understand why some are arguing in support of the ranchers. Is that indeed the owner of the ranch in the video, talking about performing amputations? Then it's indefensible. And you're quite right that continuing breeding was clearly not the most responsible thing to do in the situation, that was inevitably going to make things worse instead of resolving the problem. If the animals indeed had no pedigrees, selling the whole herd was unlikely to work out, and could have led to the animals ending up in worse conditions.


Might be an idea to contact the Humane Society, and make sure they have accurate care information. Anyone tried that yet?

They weren't in quick need of rescue as the HSUS and PETA have thus labeled it, to get more media attention. It does nothing but hurt the name for chinchilla breeders and ranchers that breed in runs and try to do the best by their animals. You may not like our practices, but there are some of us out there that do right by their animals that are now going to be scrutinized because of the photos of the breeding runs are leading to the description of "horrible living conditions" because the cages are small. I'm more worried about chinchilla breeders and ranches being attacked and hounded now because of the media this is receiving.

Then for those concerned about doing the best by their animals, the most logical approach, is to make sure there's nothing to criticise in their practices, isn't it? Not to focus on the worry about being attacked, and respond to that fear by defending someone who doesn't actually deserve it. The priorities should be obvious.

 

[IvoryBolt]

They contacted the SDHS...HSUS is just as bad, if not worse than PETA, and are run by the same couple. Food for thought. (The founders of HSUS and PETA are married)

 

[ticklechin]

Yeah, PETA (not surprisingly, and I certainly wouldn't trust them) clearly didn't handle the rescue well, but I don't understand why some are arguing in support of the ranchers. Is that indeed the owner of the ranch in the video, talking about performing amputations? Then it's indefensible. And you're quite right that continuing breeding was clearly not the most responsible thing to do in the situation, that was inevitably going to make things worse instead of resolving the problem. If the animals indeed had no pedigrees, selling the whole herd was unlikely to work out, and could have led to the animals ending up in worse conditions.


Might be an idea to contact the Humane Society, and make sure they have accurate care information. Anyone tried that yet?





Then for those concerned about doing the best by their animals, the most logical approach, is to make sure there's nothing to criticise in their practices, isn't it? Not to focus on the worry about being attacked, and respond to that fear by defending someone who doesn't actually deserve it. The priorities should be obvious.

To call this a ranch is a insult frankly, its a mill or just a really big BYB. I have heard some really bad things that came out of and happened in this mill from first hand people who have been there, the tin snips to the legs is true among other things. Why people would stick up for this place is beyond me.

 

[threewingedfury]

Then for those concerned about doing the best by their animals, the most logical approach, is to make sure there's nothing to criticise in their practices, isn't it? Not to focus on the worry about being attacked, and respond to that fear by defending someone who doesn't actually deserve it. The priorities should be obvious.

The issue is not that we're doing anything wrong in the beginning - the issue is the fact that PETA believes that breeding as a whole is wrong, and that breeders who have chinchillas in large quantities must breed for fur, which is not the truth. They go after ranchers and try to attack them in any form or fashion.. look at what they did with this ranch - they used snippets from a chinchilla ranch investigation in Michigan from almost a decade ago to try to convince the public that the Cali ranch was putting their animals down for fur.

 

[ticklechin]

They were pelting for fur, the video shows Lurlie saying she pelted chins that did not work out, so they were breeding for fur, even if it was just craft project fur.

 

[threewingedfury]

She was asked about their past methods as they were pelters decades ago and PETA twisted it to make it seem as if this is what would happen if the herd wasn't sold off... when that's not the case. It's easy to manipulate words online.

 

[Pookinaround]

Valley View wanted SOOOOO much money to sell this herd. I guarantee that if they thought that those 430 ish chins were worth close to 70 grand which was their initial asking price there was NO WAY in heck they were just going to pelt them...

 

[e.murphy518]

Just because I am very curious...I have a question for the people on this forum that are defending these "ranchers" and saying that the chins would've been better off staying there...

The video clearly shows numerous disturbing images, including one person holding a chin by its head and end of its tail and then dropping it onto the floor where it writhes around in obvious pain, the owners of this "ranch" discuss amputating limbs without any anesthetic and using wire cutters, and the video shows chinchillas being painfully electrocuted....they are very clear images with clear audio...in what possible way could this be considered okay and being people who care about chinchillas, how could you say that chins are better off in this environment?

I know I come off as harsh, which is because of how disgusted I was by the video...but I am genuinely curious. How could you watch that and say that the animals would be better off subjected to that with NO vet care, rather than in a humane society where they are at least given vet care?

I understand the comments about plastic in the cages and treats, etc. but to me those things seem FAR less important that reckless amputations, painful deaths, and overall mistreatment. I am seriously baffled how anyone could watch the chinchillas being treated that way and still defend these people...

 

[threewingedfury]

Just because I am very curious...I have a question for the people on this forum that are defending these "ranchers" and saying that the chins would've been better off staying there...

The video clearly shows numerous disturbing images, including one person holding a chin by its head and end of its tail and then dropping it onto the floor where it writhes around in obvious pain, the owners of this "ranch" discuss amputating limbs without any anesthetic and using wire cutters, and the video shows chinchillas being painfully electrocuted....they are very clear images with clear audio...in what possible way could this be considered okay and being people who care about chinchillas, how could you say that chins are better off in this environment?

I know I come off as harsh, which is because of how disgusted I was by the video...but I am genuinely curious. How could you watch that and say that the animals would be better off subjected to that with NO vet care, rather than in a humane society where they are at least given vet care?

I understand the comments about plastic in the cages and treats, etc. but to me those things seem FAR less important that reckless amputations, painful deaths, and overall mistreatment. I am seriously baffled how anyone could watch the chinchillas being treated that way and still defend these people...

The video of cervical dislocation and the electrocution IS NOT from Valley View ranch in Cali - it's a video taken by PETA years ago at a ranch in Michigan and they decided to throw it in this video for effect. Yes, I'm sure they did amputations on their own in the past, but the majority of large ranchers across the US have... it's part of the business. You learn to do what you can to keep animals alive in the ranching business. Pet owners don't understand farmers and their practices either, it's just something not spoken about. It's not used as much in current day ranching because times have changed.

 

[Amphy64]

They contacted the SDHS...HSUS is just as bad, if not worse than PETA, and are run by the same couple. Food for thought. (The founders of HSUS and PETA are married)

Ah, didn't know that. Does explain the general chaos of the rescue. Poor chins.

The issue is not that we're doing anything wrong in the beginning - the issue is the fact that PETA believes that breeding as a whole is wrong, and that breeders who have chinchillas in large quantities must breed for fur, which is not the truth. They go after ranchers and try to attack them in any form or fashion.. look at what they did with this ranch - they used snippets from a chinchilla ranch investigation in Michigan from almost a decade ago to try to convince the public that the Cali ranch was putting their animals down for fur.

Yeah, I can understand that - so, why defend them, when they were clearly doing things that were inhumane? That will only make it seem as though breeders are indeed doing something wrong. It would be better for breeders to unite in condemning unethical practice, and making it clear that that is not considered acceptable among breeders and/or ranchers (and the UK proves we don't need the fur industry to have quality chins). Though, from your latest post, it doesn't sound like everyone does think it's unacceptable. If that's the case, I'm more inclined to welcome greater public scrutiny.

PETA are typically pretty misleading in their tactics, yeah. But then, though it was clearly handled badly and, as typical for PETA, with a fair bit of obvious self-promotion behind it as the real motive, I do wonder what would've happened to the chins otherwise, surely the herd would genuinely have been difficult to sell. They're not necessarily in any worse position than they could've ended up, at least.

 

[ticklechin]

If the pelting quote was not meant for recent events, what exactly did she mean by "if the animal did not work out", what else did did they do with the chins, there was not a pet trade 30 years ago. There is a pelting market among hobby breeders, its been admitted here, so why on earth would they not pelt. Joking about pelting a chin, admitting to using inhumane practices, DIY vet care to their customers own chins (which is against the law, sniping a leg off is also) is just allowing them to get what they deserve, bad publicity for this industry. Why not look at the horrid practices in the fur industry, you do chickens and cows and geese. What makes fur so special it needs the poor treatment kept under the rug. I remember a particular rancher that laughed and laughed about the tin snips to legs and tails, the surgeries he performed in his coal shed where he kept his chins, everyone knew about him and what he did, but they bought his violets anyway because he won awards. That is just wrong on so many levels.

 

[Pookinaround]

The point I was trying to make with regards to my earlier statement had to do with nothing more than their motivation. They wanted big bucks for the herd. Pelt price even on all 430 of them would have brought peanuts... Would have been no where near the value they seemed to think they were worth... That is why I believe those animals were in no danger of being pelted because they were worth more alive... I'd be smiling in the video too if I just sold my herd for 5 times what it was really worth... SMH...

 

[Dreamlite]

I agree with pookin. The average whole sale is about $40 each pelting is about the same.... they just got paid $115 for each chin! They were in no means going to pelt. And that was way below what their asking price was.A rescue to me is animals that NEED to be removed from a situation for their own health/safety. I don't see that the chins were in any harms way (they were fed, housed and cared for). Yes the breeder was irresponsible, but that doesn't deem them worthy of this form of ridicule. As for the UK people who say they don't need a pelt industry to support their chins.... yous import chins regularly from out pelt ranchers... so if you didn't need pelters, prove it by stop buying from them.

 

[ticklechin]

They sold chocolate goldbars AKA dark tans, that has to be worth alot of money right?

 

[Snickers]

I talked to someone there that showed us the chins. The chins are in a separate room from the other animals. Oceanside has 100 chins the rest are in San Diego.Each chin has their own level of the FN. The youngest chin is 1 1/2 yrs and oldest 16 yrs. What we were told the males are not available since they are going to neutered all the males. The chins had small cardboard homes in each cage, some had plastic wheels. I told the girl that that was a waste of money and they they shouldn't have those. I said anything plastic isn't good for them since they can chew it. I suggested apple wood. We didn't take pictures since we couldn't use a flash. She said that they are putting pictures on the web site since this morning and should be done today. They have mostly standards, beiges, maybe a pink white or **** beige. There are some fur chewers but not that many. Some we couldn't see since they were hiding. When we left I took a roll of paper towels and some papers off the top of one of the cages. I told her that if you leave this on top they will chew it. I recommended putting something on top of all the cages to give them more of a shelter.

 

[ticklechin]

I agree with pookin. The average whole sale is about $40 each pelting is about the same.... they just got paid $115 for each chin! They were in no means going to pelt. And that was way below what their asking price was.A rescue to me is animals that NEED to be removed from a situation for their own health/safety. I don't see that the chins were in any harms way (they were fed, housed and cared for). Yes the breeder was irresponsible, but that doesn't deem them worthy of this form of ridicule. As for the UK people who say they don't need a pelt industry to support their chins.... yous import chins regularly from out pelt ranchers... so if you didn't need pelters, prove it by stop buying from them.

So you don't think that the amputations that they admit doing deserve a form of ridicule? Do you do that? Do you think it okie dokie? How about breeding fur chewers? Poor quality pets? Mass quantity of poor quality pets? This was by no means a ranch, it was a mill or if one does not understand that term, a large back yard breeder, a BYB, no pedigrees, no showing, no improvement of the species, nada, nothing, what exactly is there to stick up for????


In this thread you state they are liars, so why bother with them.

http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34324&highlight=valley+view

 

[tunes]

Dawn - Many people think it is absolutely fine to whack a chin's leg off with tin snips. Others think it is fine to perform do it yourself C-sections. You aren't going to change their minds about that stuff. I think it is disgusting and barbaric. People who make money off of an animals back but can't be bothered with a vet make me embarrassed to be a human.

What absolutely sickens me about this situation are the people lining up to get one, two, three, or four chins for one reason and one reason only - they are $25.00. Facebook has absolutely blown up with this crap. Here are a few of the things being posted:

Chins MUST have a two story or taller cage.
Chins MUST live in pairs or more.
Chins can't have certain types of wood because they can't be exposed to DUST.
I only feed my chins SUGAR FREE raisins.
They don't like runabout balls, but you still can use them.
Chins must have water BOWLS and food dishes at all times.
Chins are wild animals - if they were rescued, why can't they all be turned loose??
"I have a chin named Boner. I am going to get him a girlfriend."
Only sadistic animals have more than one or two chinchillas. Any RESPONSIBLE person with more than that would have them all neutered.

It just goes on and freaking on. I have tried posting right and left to correct some of the most stupid, but I can't take it anymore.

 

[Pookinaround]

Saying that they weren't going to harm the chins is different than condoning how they ran their ranch. Neither Dreamlite nor I agree with their practices. I made this statement because PETA is using THAT angle to gain sympathy for their cause. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Amphy64]

I have tried posting right and left to correct some of the most stupid, but I can't take it anymore.

Ach, yeah, I'm not surprised, good for you for being so patient with all that. The comment about them being wild animals makes me break out in a cold sweat. Which Facebook page is it? Guess I could try wading in a bit...

As for the UK people who say they don't need a pelt industry to support their chins.... yous import chins regularly from out pelt ranchers... so if you didn't need pelters, prove it by stop buying from them.

I hadn't heard that before, though maybe it's more common in a different region to me (I'll have to ask sometime). I imagine there may be a few, but it'd cost a fortune to ship chins (would they have to be quarantined?), a lot of our breeders are fairly small, so I'm surprised if it's really all that frequent. The only chins I've seen from import lines, are the Deutsch Violets (though I know there's a fur industry there also, wouldn't it be easier to import from elsewhere in Europe than the US, anyway?).

Still, we don't actually need it, regardless. It'd after all be odd if chinchillas did, and other animals didn't, wouldn't it? They're less common as pets, true, but specific breeds of other types of animal aren't common as pets, either, nor are other exotics.

And absolutely no one needs ranchers, or pet breeders, to think it's fine to perform home amputations with tin snips - it's clearly inhumane, doesn't benefit chins, it doesn't help the reputation of chin breeding. There's just no justification for it (and as ticklechins comments, it's presumably indeed not actually legal?).