Breeding

As most of you from CNQ know, when I finally find get a job and get caught up..etc. I am going to get some more chins because I want to breed, and yes I plan on getting ones with pedigrees. ANd yes I know it's not easy, and there's alot that can happen and you have to be prepared (please don't bash me, I have done alot of reading on the forums). And plus you always have to start at the beginning.

But my question is this, now I know I always refer to dogs because that is what I know, so like you wouldn't breed a dog with hip problems or any genectic traits because I know they can come out in the pups. Also, when I get my next GSD I am going for lines because that proves the pups would be better than just getting one where you can't see the lines. etc. But I want a good GSD with no fear and titles, but you can still get a good dog without doing what I will be doing.

So my question is this, with chins, is it important that you breed with chins that have papers/pedigrees? I know they can't have issues, I know you breed to better the breed (so maybe I'm answering my own question here), but if you have a decent chin with no problems (teeth problems etc) and you just want to breed pet quality chins is that okay to do? I really don't want to breed if I'm not going to have good chins, but I'm thinking if you don't have papers and the chins are healthy and all, and would be pet quality that might be okay, but I know I could be totally wrong on that.

Thanks guys, hope that made sense, as I always say, I have a really hard time explaining exactly what I mean.

Jean

So my question is this, with chins, is it important that you breed with chins that have papers/pedigrees? I know they can't have issues, I know you breed to better the breed (so maybe I'm answering my own question here), but if you have a decent chin with no problems (teeth problems etc) and you just want to breed pet quality chins is that okay to do? I really don't want to breed if I'm not going to have good chins, but I'm thinking if you don't have papers and the chins are healthy and all, and would be pet quality that might be okay, but I know I could be totally wrong on that.

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Just like dogs, the ONLY chins that should be bred are pedigreed chins, from healthy stock. (With dogs it theres more--health test etc, we don't have these in chins).

I don't care if it's for "just pets" or show chins. They should be pedigreed, from reptuable breeders, with good lines. IMO pet people deserve quality chinchillas, too. You get enough pet only chins out of GOOD breedings, there is no reason to breed pet quality chins for people wanting pets...let them have the 'off casts' of proper breedings..Not every chin produced from good lines will be of use in a breeding program...let them go to good pet homes, giving the pet people healthy stock, from nice lines--but perhaps at a reduced price as they can't fit into a breeding program.

ETA- We have so many chinchillas in recues who are 'pet quality' that need homes...why bring more pets into the world on purpose?

Just like dogs, the ONLY chins that should be bred are pedigreed chins, from healthy stock. (With dogs it theres more--health test etc, we don't have these in chins).

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I disagree. If this was true, the entire Butler herd would be a waste of time. They never pedigree, and if you buy a chin from them, you won't get one. Do I prefer always having a pedigree? Of course. Would I recommend starting out without pedigreed animals? No. But I know of several breeders who use animals with no pedigrees, they are just careful who they outcross them to and they know where they are from.

I personally have many chins from the Butler's in my herd, beiges, whites, standards. They don't breed any recessives, so having eb pop up somewhere down the line isn't an issue.

Again, would I prefer to have a pedigree? Of course. But do I always have one? No. It's no different than people who provide you with a one generation pedigree or just a color pedigree.

I agree with Peggy. sometimes you go to a great breeder who does not pedigree. It is better to have one but not absolutly necessary. Just as just because it has a pedigree does not mean it should be bred.

Can you have chins that don't come with pedigrees, yet are nice chins? Sure. Can you have chins that come with a pedigree in tow and are horrible? Yep.

However--whats to stop people from taking it to the next level. "If butlers can breed without pedigrees, are reputable breeders--why can't I breed my petstore chin? He LOOKS good, even placed well in a show" I've seen some nice chins sitting in petstores...does that make it right to breed them?

Some people think pedigrees are important , others may not. I personally feel they are--but I also have a small herd, mostly from the same select few breeders, and need to watch my lines and outcrosses.

We all have our own opinions, methods etc...doesn't always mean the 'other side' is completly wrong.

That's what I was trying to point out Megan. That your way was not the only way. There are people who breed without pedigrees. The point to it being, again know where your chins come from. Breeding pet store chins does not tell you where they are from. Buying from a breeder that you know is totally different.

Again, as I stated before, would I prefer to always have a pedigree? Sure! But that doesn't mean that I will completely rule out a chin that doesn't have one, providing I know where it comes from and trust that breeder.

BTW, Megs, ask Jags who their first breeding animals were. I bet you'd be surprised. Also ask how the female (I think it was the female) placed on the show table.

tunes said:

BTW, Megs, ask Jags who their first breeding animals were. I bet you'd be surprised. Also ask how the female (I think it was the female) placed on the show table.

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Can you spoil it for her and tell us anyways??? You spiked my interest:thumbsup:


and to the OP, I am not a breeder, but just be wise in your selection. If the chin doesn't have papers but you know their medical history etc. then you should be good to go

Peggy- pretty sure it was petstore chins, and did really well on the show table? Not really sure what the placing was, but I believe it was fairly high up?

She was a pet store chin, BUT, back when they started breeding, chins weren't what they are now as far as popularity and everybody and their brother breeding.

Again, let me point out, the JAGS got lucky with their chin. Nowadays, you can't walk out the door without tripping over a breeder and the results have been obvious. More fur chewers, more maloccluders, etc. I had a vet once tell me that when he first started seeing chins, he never saw genetic issues. He said now, all the pet store chins he sees seem to end up dying from malo. So again, I do NOT advocate pet store breedings because you don't know where they come from, but I do trust certain breeders, with or without pedigrees.

I wouldn't suggest using a petstore chin. I know our boy doesn't have a pedigree (well it just wasn't given to us) but the breeder has been able to answer any questions we've had about him, his parents and their health. so if I EVER decided to breed I would feel confident using my boy if I was satisfied with how he grew up as an adult. i know he has a healthy background and I fully trust the breeder.

I think it depends on the situation, definetely don't use petstore chins but if they come from a reputable breeder you trust than it's a possibility.

I should add I don't plan on breeding I was just using me as an example.

Again even though I don't plan on doing this for awhile, I'm one that likes information way ahead of time, but I thank everyone for their input.

THere is just one question I have, I already know what breeder I will buy from when things get better for me, but aside from her (no names mentioned). How do you know if a breeder is a good breeder, one that cares and breeds correctly. I mean anyone can come up with a pedigree can't they? I don't know, that's really a question. And since chin breeders aren't in every state, how do you find out if they are good quality chins, but going to a show and buying one there?

Thanks again,
Jean

I was involved in Schutzhund and GSD's for quite awhile and can explain in GSD terms. In the GSD world you have working dogs and show dogs. If you want a GSD with high drive then you want to breed a Schutzhund III titled GSD to another Schutzhund III titled GSD (that come from a long line of Kkl1a parents). They don't have to be pretty but if your aim is for sport then that's where you start. If you want a pretty "show quality" shepherd then you start looking at AKC and the show ring. Sometimes you can find Sch III dogs with champion or sieger/in titles and you have the best of both worlds but usually breeders are working toward one or the other.

So if you are going to start breeding chins start with the top notch breeders (i.e. Shoots would be equivalent to Bullinger). Get the best they have to offer and make them the foundation of your herd. Decide what your focus is going to be (ebs, violets, beiges?). Next go to shows and see if you can find champions in the show ring and breeders that are willing to part with them. Get a good mentor (or two or three) that have many years of experience. Have the mentor explain the history of the lines and help you pair up your chins. Have a lot of extra cages on hand and a sizeable rainy day fund for emergencies and the "exactly what I was looking for" chins. Be very picky and selective about the chins you buy and don't acquire so many chins so fast that you are overwhelmed. Never cease your quest to improve your lines. Keep your thirst for knowledge alive.:wink3:

My question is why do you want to breed? There are so many unwanted/neglected/abandoned chinchillas and even a large number of great healthy kits born to respectable breeders needing homes already, why add to the population if you aren't going to try to "better the breed" (a term which I hesitate to use myself because I think it is very loosely interpreted sometimes and has a meaning that I'm not even sure I want to understand fully). Sure, kits are absolutely adorable, who of us doesn't want dozens of them romping around but they grow up and are a huge responsibility financially, and for those of us who really care about them, emotionally. It's heart breaking when complications arise. There are already too many breeders who aren't doing it for the right reasons if you ask me. I would discourage anyone that wants to breed "pet chinchillas" from doing it no matter who they are so please don't take anything personally.

While I do suggest using, prefer having, and put emphasis on pedigreed chins, I agree that there are exceptions. Danko comes to mind, in addition to the Butlers, but I would clarify it by adding the chin has to be breeding quality whether it's pedigreed or not, and from a breeder who you know culls malocludders and furchewers, so you're reasonably sure health issues aren't in the lines.

As for pet only breedings, I don't see a point. If all responsible breeders are truly breeding to improve chinchillas, they should be trying to cut down the number of pet quality offspring produced, even in show winning pairs. Pet only breedings works greatly against that goal.

I don't know where you are located, but ask other people who have chins if there is a certain breeder they trust to buy from. If there are shows in your area go to some and meet breeders and ranchers, or visit some of them. We have on occasion bred a chin that was not pedigreed, only because we knew the rancher and his stock very well. I would not recommend breeding a pet store chin because of the worries of what might be in their background. Like other people have said, just because it has a pedigree doesn't make it a chin you should breed. Learn what quality is before you jump in and buy or breed. :thumbsup:

Ditto what Vicki said. I would have posted the same thing. Visit the places you want to buy from. Ask people you trust if the person you want to buy from is reputable. Network at shows, or even through this forum. It's not hard to figure out who the people are you can trust and the ones you can't.

Yes but a good breeder does not want to see their babies being rehomed or ending up in a shelter. So most good breeders will take their babies back in an event they are needing help. Thusly they are not adding to chinchillas in rescues or shelters they are caring for their babies throughout their life.

rcr said:

I was involved in Schutzhund and GSD's for quite awhile and can explain in GSD terms. In the GSD world you have working dogs and show dogs. If you want a GSD with high drive then you want to breed a Schutzhund III titled GSD to another Schutzhund III titled GSD (that come from a long line of Kkl1a parents). They don't have to be pretty but if your aim is for sport then that's where you start. If you want a pretty "show quality" shepherd then you start looking at AKC and the show ring. Sometimes you can find Sch III dogs with champion or sieger/in titles and you have the best of both worlds but usually breeders are working toward one or the other.

So if you are going to start breeding chins start with the top notch breeders (i.e. Shoots would be equivalent to Bullinger). Get the best they have to offer and make them the foundation of your herd. Decide what your focus is going to be (ebs, violets, beiges?). Next go to shows and see if you can find champions in the show ring and breeders that are willing to part with them. Get a good mentor (or two or three) that have many years of experience. Have the mentor explain the history of the lines and help you pair up your chins. Have a lot of extra cages on hand and a sizeable rainy day fund for emergencies and the "exactly what I was looking for" chins. Be very picky and selective about the chins you buy and don't acquire so many chins so fast that you are overwhelmed. Never cease your quest to improve your lines. Keep your thirst for knowledge alive.:wink3:

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You are like me with the GSDs. lol Yes I want working lines.

Anyways, my I know who I would be buying from already, but aside from her, and I do trust her. How can you tell if a breeder is really good and their quality is good. I do plan on going to the next NY show, so if (and this is a question) if someone gets a ribbon or whatever they get (never went to a show before) then does that mean they are someone worth buying from? What do I exactly need to look for, or should I not worry about it cuz there will be people there from this forum and they can help me. But then I don't know if people will be totally honest,not that i mean they will lie, but someone might say this person has great chins, and someone else can say, no this person has better chins....etc.. Hope that made sense.

jean

DaphnesandFreddysmom said:

Yes but a good breeder does not want to see their babies being rehomed or ending up in a shelter. So most good breeders will take their babies back in an event they are needing help. Thusly they are not adding to chinchillas in rescues or shelters they are caring for their babies throughout their life.

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That is a very naive statement. While you might do the right thing and return the chin to its breeder, not everyone will. A breeder might be willing to take every kit back but who insures that the new owners give them the option? Anyone who breeds chinchillas can and will add to the population of rescues/rehomes/you name it because some people just don't care. Sad, but true. The only way to ensure they don't is to keep every single kit born and then I would have to say what would be the point?