Oxbow says it was always 18% protein?

After speaking to the quality control manager at Oxbow on Wednesday after Stacie brought to my attention that the protein levels in the pellets increased from 16% to 18%. He initially told me that it could be a typo on the label due to the new label layout. I pressed further and asked him to put it in writing. I am quoting his email to me below.

From what I understand is that the formula was always 18% protein but everything on their labels including their website stated 16% protein until recently. Oxbowanimalhealth.com still to this minute says: Crude Protein, min 16.00%. So to me, they have been misleading all of us for several years according to his email.

The Oxbow Chin Deluxe label and formulation issues that you questioned have been thoroughly reviewed and here

are my findings:

The actual formula hasn’t changed in years or since it was first developed.
The label was updated ~18 months ago to better reflect the actual protein results which come from frequent, regular lab analyses. Those results are consistently in the 18% range.
-We routinely test all of our products for their nutritional make up. These nutritional tests help us insure we are meeting the formulation specifications we need for each species.

Oxbow works closely with a team of nutritionists and veterinary health professionals in regards to formulation of and nutritional profiles of our diets.
In talking with our specialty nutritionist, some important nutritional factors to keep in mind with Chinchillas, are the amino acids (the building blocks of protein), not the crude protein content.
One amino acid, methionine, is essential for good hair growth, a much desired characteristic in Chins.
Another amino acid, lysine, is essential for good lean muscle growth in Chinchillas
Oxbow Chin Deluxe is specifically formulated to contain the proper amounts of these two amino acids.
The 18% Crude protein is a necessary to provide proper nutrition for chinchillas including the correct levels of these amino acids.
Our nutritionist also said, that in his opinion, a 16% diet is a maintenance diet only….That in order to achieve
proper muscle and hair coat, the diet must be at least a 17% or 18%.

So, the key point for your forum members is that the reason their Chins are doing so well on Oxbow Chin Deluxe
is because it is formulated to contain specific amino acids, as well as ample crude protein, to insure the that the animals nutritional needs are met.

Sandy: Please let me know if our Technical Team can help with any other answers.

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Thought about this over dinner and I don't really know what to think...why would they label their protein content for years as 16% if it has really been 18%? Blah! Something's fishy.

mine are on oxbow

What should we do?? The food for them is getting to be slim pickings. Its hard to find good food for chins.:impatient:

Why not find out from someone what the difference between 16% and 18% protein means to the health and welfare for the chin? Does anyone on the forum know if 18% is detrimental to the chin's health?

Whats wrong with Oxbow having 18% protein instead of the 16%? Mazuri has 20% and it is also a recommend food. So is there really a major difference if it is 18%? If so then wouldn't Mazuri not be good then since it has 20%?

I'm just wondering since most of mine get straight Oxbow except for 2 who get 50/50 Oxbow/Mazuri. I've been using Oxbow for about 5 months and have no complaints and my chins are doing very good on it, actually better than they did on mazuri. So if there is something bad about it having the 18% I would really like to know because the only other chin food recommend on the forum I can get anywhere within about 100 miles is Mazuri and it has higher protein than the Oxbow. I order oxbow in the 50lb bags straight from the oxbow company and if I had to switch to another food I would probably have to order from someone off the forum and the shipping would be killer since I would have to order quite a bit with my number chins plus I share the Oxbow I order with mom who also have chins.

My chins do well on 18% (I feed PANR currently soon to switch to PRCS). Many feed Mazuri which has 20% with success. I think 18% is fine. It is just odd that they didn't have the correct number on the bag for all of this time...

Being that its a minimum of the amount of protein it really makes little difference as it could have 20% protein and still be labeled right.

I'm not so much worried as to the fact that it's really 18%- I'm keeping my chins on it regardless because they are all doing so well on it. But I still don't understand why it has been listed as 16% for years if it has truely been 18% all along as they said.

According to Oxbow, if it was always at 18% min., then it was never at 16% min so why label it as such?

Yeah it feels more upsetting that they may have been dishonest instead of the actual protein content issue. It just begs to have the question asked..what else would they be dishonest about?

I too think they are a great company and are happy with the products but I am just being devils advocate I guess

Tillygizmo said:

Yeah it feels more upsetting that they may have been dishonest instead of the actual protein content issue. It just begs to have the question asked..what else would they be dishonest about?

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I'm the same way, wondering if there are any other wrong things printed on their nutritional analysis...

According to Oxbow, if it was always at 18% min., then it was never at 16% min so why label it as such?

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Absolutely not true.

I think you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill due to a lack of understanding of how feeds work.

Here is a page that explains it.

In short, a feed company has to meet standards. They have variance levels (contamination, minerals, quantities, etc) but so long as they are within the level they can send out the feed. Minimums are the easiest to guarantee, so they guarantee that the protein will be at least 16% absolutely 100% of the time. The guy gave you an average, it could've tested as high as 23%.

Here's a good example, this was in the late 80's, you can thank my mentor for ruining your meal. He worked in Alaska as a mechanic for 32 years and saw a lot. So they were having issues with a grinder/tank of some sort and the guy lost his hand and part of his arm in it. He survived, I guess lost fingers are really common. They had the health department out and they figured due to the volume of canning and the type of processing they were doing that the contamination was within the .02% variance limit.

So yea, that's gross.

Spoof, you explained that really well. The graphic story is helpful, too (but a bit on the sickening side).

Just want to second Spoof's reassurances, as someone who has taken several animal nutrition courses. It probably was calculated or measured to be 16% when they first developed it, and as all of the tests showed that it was at least 16%, they left the label as such. Not lying, just not changing it to reflect the 18%, because then if it tested lower than 18% they WOULD be lying. But after 100 tests (or however many) showed them to always be 18%, they chose to change it.

The food they used to make up the pellets will always have a tiny bit of variance to them depending on the plant itself (did it get more rain this year, was it fertilized, was the harvest poor?). They used 16% as a conservative guarantee.

More protein will not hurt any healthy animal, it just goes out the other end. The only situation I can think of where more protein would be bad is in an animal with kidney disease.

As far as I am concerned whats on the feed tag means little to nothing to me. I take samples of the feed I use or have questions on in to be tested to see whats really in the bag. That's why they only post minimums and maximums so if things change they are covered. Some feeds have been real close and some have been all over the place but more often than not they do not overdo on protein minerals and vitamins as it costs them more money.

Maybe it had originally been a typo and the new label formation they mentioned happened to correct it and they just didn't want to admit to making a mistake? The new lab results from testing the food could have also just came back for this and said 18% so they changed it to match the new results. My chin is on Oxbow too and technically since it did say 16% min, 18% is still in that category. People said they feed their chins on 20% and 18% and they do fine so I personally don't have a problem with the number changing. It also makes no sense for them to be dishonest in saying that their food has a lower protein count than it actually does, that doesn't really benefit them in anyway by saying that. I also agree with Spoof and what else was said, they have to account for variances, if they gave 18% on the label and sometimes it fell to 16% then they would be called on that.

jags said:

As far as I am concerned whats on the feed tag means little to nothing to me. I take samples of the feed I use or have questions on in to be tested to see whats really in the bag. That's why they only post minimums and maximums so if things change they are covered. Some feeds have been real close and some have been all over the place but more often than not they do not overdo on protein minerals and vitamins as it costs them more money.

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I get shot down when I mention the word "hamster" on this list, but here I go again...

Those of us who raise the smaller rodents for show (hamsters, rats, mice, etc.) learned long ago to go with the lab diets. Purina has their Purina Mills (PMI) Lab Diet line, and Teklad has a similar line. These feeds are designed for the lab industry, and they are tightly controlled. They come in a wide variety of blends and only come in 33 or 50 pound bags. Each batch is tested, and for a little bit more, you can get a certificate with the exact ingredients in the batch used to fill your order -- something which some labs need. A medical study can't be influenced by variations in the food or other food-related problems causing food to become a variable in the study.

We had very significant problems years ago with Oxbow. Oxbow finally removed the rodent food from the market (without admitting any blame of course) after admitting that their testing had only been flavor testing using small sample packets shipped to pet owners. No Oxbow product will ever cross the threshold of my house again.

I couldn't be happier with the PMI food we get. The blend we use has to be special ordered because it's not particularly popular with the labs. The good news is that we get it within a month of milling. The bad news is that it takes from 1 - 2 months to get our order. We obviously have to plan ahead. I pick it up for the club and get 500 pounds at a time. Half of that was distributed just last week at our hamster show to club breeders and local pet owners.

Hamster breeders never breed to make money (only commercial breeders feeding the pet stores do), so we don't look for the cheapest stuff out there. Ranchers looking to turn a profit might not find the lab diets to be acceptable price-wise, but $30 for 50 pounds isn't that bad (other blends cost more of less depending on the ingredients). And PMI will make batches of whatever blend you desire. You provide the ingredient list, and they make it to your list. You just have to buy the whole batch, and only ranchers would probably be able to do that.

An additional benefit for us is that their rodent diets come in fairly big, dense, pellets -- much bigger than PANR or Mazuri. They're made for use with lab cages, but it means our hamsters' teeth stay short and don't have to be trimmed except in specific cases when they're growing in the wrong directions. Hamsters love them, and those of us using the products can't imagine using the grain treat mixes that many pet owners use. You just can't expect a pregnant or nursing mother to maintain condition or raise strong healthy pups on treat mix.

These companies produce a number of rabbit blends. I don't see any chin-specific blends, but lots of chins breeders and owners feed rabbit blends now. Then again, some of the rodent blends might be appropriate for chins.

http://www.labdiet.com/rabbit_diet.html

Teklad is also a good product. Their food comes in 33 pound bags.

http://www.harlan.com/research_models_and_services/laboratory_animal_diets

Just another option for those who really value well-controlled, and well-produced products entirely made in America with top quality ingredients. I would not put my hamster colony on foods from the various companies out there who just don't value animals like I do.

Linda

Thanks for those links, I've often considered having my own milled but I just don't need that much feed. There is actually a LabDiet dealer about 25 minutes from me.

I should also say that PMI has been great when I've called to ask questions. They generally transfer me right to the mill that makes my blend (and only one mill makes the blend we've chosen), and I get right to the people that can answer my questions. I have yet to find that with other feed companies I've talked to.

So if you just have questions, feel free to call and ask questions. They welcome them. They are geared to labs, though, so they're sometimes surprised that clubs and fanciers use their products. It sounds like you've found the link for locations, but if you happen to call and ask about distributors, make sure to specify you don't need a lab distributor. The labs (at least in California) can only buy from two distributors (one north and one south). Labs have special requirements for their distribution system. Any feed store that carries Purina products, though, can order any blend if they want to and supply to people like us.

Linda

Thank you so much for the links. I've been looking through the rabbit pellets. I haven't found one that I love just yet, but I'm still looking through them. Most that seem to have high fiber has the protein too low at 14%. I found one I liked with really high fiber and protein at 16%, but then the first ingredient was soybean hulls, not alfalfa. Still looking to see if anything catches my eye!