Injured Kit, Swollen Head

[ErinsChins]

I am going to try and keep this short and to the point. On December 31st, one of my females had two babies (this is also the female that I had to take to the vet recently for seizing). All went well until the male stopped gaining. Tried rotating and handfeeding, nothing worked, he died. On January 2nd another of my females had 2 kits, once again a male and a female. She died a few days later. I put the two kits with the first mother (mostly for warmth with the possibility of nursing some). Everything's great until the other male stops nursing. Won't take goat's milk, nothing. We try forcing goat's milk and he makes it 2 more days before his legs stop working. He passed the next day. So now i'm left with my two females. I didn't have to rotate/handfeed until 3 days ago when one of the females got attacked (by the foster mom we believe). We start rotating and once again it gets attacked. So we permanently separate it from the foster mom. She has been taking the goat's milk like crazy, but I have two problems. She seems blind in both eyes and every time I turn around they are scabbed over and oozy (I wash them each time, but I try not to pull anything off) and what i'm more concerned about is the fact that her head is swollen and softish (I tried not to touch it, so I can't give more detail than that). I took some pictures, not sure how well you can see it, but it is swollen about a half inch. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Narcissus]

I have no advice to give, I just want to say, I'm so sorry for you. I can't imagine how hard this is. I hope for the best for your little one. I'm praying for you.

 

[ErinsChins]

I have no advice to give, I just want to say, I'm so sorry for you. I can't imagine how hard this is. I hope for the best for your little one. I'm praying for you.

I really appreciate that. She had been doing so well until I saw her head this evening. She's a trooper, though! Thank you

 

[AZChins]

Poor little thing. I'm not sure that there is much you can do but make sure she's eating. Hopefully her little eyes will heal up and she will be able to see later on. She's so young that antibiotics probably wouldn't be a good idea.

Keep feeding her and keep her little wounds clean. I've had this happen to kits before and as long as they can breathe and eat they usually do pretty well. She may end up losing an eye or not be so pretty in the face...but as long as she can heal up and grows normally she'll have a good quality of life. Poor little bub.

 

[Annieo]

Awww..poor sweet little thing. Wishing you the best Erin and the kits.

 

[Riven]

I would put everyone you have on antibiotics unless you know what caused all of the deaths. That is a lot of deaths in a short period of time, that's two babies and one mom, with two different cages I'm assuming. I would run antibiotics and review anything you're feeding, water, anything. If you know what caused the other deaths please let us know because they may be related to healing the girl.

I understand Susan's concern about putting a kit that small on antibiotics, but they put human babies on antibiotics if needed, and if there is puss and oozing there is infection. The "puff" may be either swelling, just swelling, or may be due to infection. Blindness may be due to swelling on the occipital lobe, if so reducing the swelling will bring back the vision as long as there is no permanent damage.

Normally a kit would get antibodies from their mother, but since she is not getting "breast milk" and milk replacer instead I would definitely think about giving some. Also a probiotic. If you have or can get some you may also want to think about mixing in some colostrum to give added antibodies. Normally at this stage a kit should just be worrying about growing, but this one's also not only trying to heal itself, but fight infection.

If there are scabs that are preventing her from opening her eyes, or drainage of any oozing areas, soak it with a warm wash cloth and try to loosen and remove them. If bleeding occurs do NOT remove them. You may get a tiny bit of blood, like what you get with a minor scrape, but if it's more than wipe it off and it's done, do not continue.

Is the kit with mom still gaining fine, and have a round belly? With the two deaths on her I'd be concerned that she may be a little toxic or something like that. I've lost kits to mom's not having enough milk for everyone, I've never had any go through partial paralysis. Was the mom's seizures prior to birthing? It's possible that there was a preclampsyia (sp?) type issue that caused it if so.

Sending out good thoughts for the baby.

ETA: some of the "softness" on her head is possibly the fact that chins are like humans in the fact they are born with "soft spots", if there is swelling in the head and I suspect there is, that is actually your friend right now because it allows the skull to move and accommodate the swelling.

 

[BooBoo*TheKiddo*]

^^^I'm not sure on this so I thought I'd ask...
Is it safe to leave the other baby with the momma chinnie if she attacked this one?

 

[ErinsChins]

Thanks for the input guys.
Riven- I will go more into detail regarding what has happened and try to be as specific with dates and times as I can remember.

The first boy that passed was very small at birth, around 25 grams. His sister was closer to 50. We started rotating from day one because this mother is known to produce little milk. He was quickly losing weight, so we began handfeeding. He just wouldn't gain weight. He did not want the goat's milk. He died VERY small. He was about 20 grams. His sister continued gaining and is still doing great (without a mark on her, also)

The mother that passed gave birth on the 2nd. It was odd, I had felt kicking for 4 weeks, strong kicking. I had questioned taking her to the vet, but just kept saying "tomorrow", you know? Well, I had gone to bed and woke up around 1pm. She had a GIANT baby. 80 grams (the girl pictured above) It was dry, I briefly felt and didn't feel anything, so I went out for a while. Came back at 6pm and checked on her. Still just the one baby, doing great. BAM 8pm another baby pops out of nowhere. That's at LEAST 7 hours between births. At this point, I check the new arrival, male, 50 grams. After confirming that he is fine, I get momma out to feel around one more time. NOTHING. She does great for two days. Both are gaining well and then when I check on her the evening of the 4th..she was gone. I pick her up out of her cage and notice two things: One, what appears to be a head (obviously stillborn). That was it, just a head. And two, one nipple was hard and black (she was a beige).

Why the little boy died, I do not know. I just know that he went downhill quick like the first boy did. Only difference was that he started dragging his legs shortly before death.

I'll be honest, i've had the "dragging the legs" thing happen 3 times. Once with a different mother and twice now with this one. I have never looked into it too much. Now I may though. The only difference was that it went away last time with this mother.

Regarding the scabs, I have peeled them off almost everytime, but last time they started bleeding badly and so i've just been using warm water.

I do not mind getting antibiotics if that is what you recommend.

ETA: The other kit has been with her since the attack with no problems. I hate to seperate from the mother if not completely necessary.

 

[Ronda]

Erin,

I've seen a lot of deaths in the first 5 to 7 days. That's usually the time period for baby loss. You can usually tell which ones are going to die by the way they act. Draging the hind legs is one indication and another is hunch backed like it isn't getting food - even as soon as it's born it can be hunch backed. Probably didn't get enough nutriton from mom before birth and especially if it is as small as you said. Rarely do the tiny ones like that live unless mom has a ton of extra milk. You might want to consider not breeding her any more as milk production is so essential.

Even if the scabs bleed really bad make sure you keep the ones cleaned off of her nose. If she can't breath she can't live and the scabs will close her nostrils fast. Be careful with the dropper too, you don't want to flood her lungs. Just make sure she takes it and don't force the milk.

When you clean out the white stuff in her eyes remember to roll the underskin around a bit because that white stuff tends to hide under the eyelids down at the bottom and need to be rolled to get it all out. Get some good eye medicine and put that in too.

You might want to try some Schreiner's Herbal Solution. You can get it at a farm supply place in the horse medicine section. It comes in a small spray bottle and costs almost an arm and a leg but it is awesome stuff. It smells bad so don't inhail. After you clean the wounds or even periodically during the day spray some on the baby to help healing. This is the only spray bottle that I have ever found that will penetrate chinchilla fur. The other spray bottles will just wet the fur but this actually gets the medicine to the skin. I've even just sprayed this on animals that have been beat up so badly that I figured they would be dead and for some reason this stuff has saved a few lives for me.

Good luck to your baby.

Ronda

 

[ErinsChins]

Erin,

I've seen a lot of deaths in the first 5 to 7 days. That's usually the time period for baby loss. You can usually tell which ones are going to die by the way they act. Draging the hind legs is one indication and another is hunch backed like it isn't getting food - even as soon as it's born it can be hunch backed. Probably didn't get enough nutriton from mom before birth and especially if it is as small as you said. Rarely do the tiny ones like that live unless mom has a ton of extra milk. You might want to consider not breeding her any more as milk production is so essential.

Even if the scabs bleed really bad make sure you keep the ones cleaned off of her nose. If she can't breath she can't live and the scabs will close her nostrils fast. Be careful with the dropper too, you don't want to flood her lungs. Just make sure she takes it and don't force the milk.

When you clean out the white stuff in her eyes remember to roll the underskin around a bit because that white stuff tends to hide under the eyelids down at the bottom and need to be rolled to get it all out. Get some good eye medicine and put that in too.

You might want to try some Schreiner's Herbal Solution. You can get it at a farm supply place in the horse medicine section. It comes in a small spray bottle and costs almost an arm and a leg but it is awesome stuff. It smells bad so don't inhail. After you clean the wounds or even periodically during the day spray some on the baby to help healing. This is the only spray bottle that I have ever found that will penetrate chinchilla fur. The other spray bottles will just wet the fur but this actually gets the medicine to the skin. I've even just sprayed this on animals that have been beat up so badly that I figured they would be dead and for some reason this stuff has saved a few lives for me.

Good luck to your baby.

Ronda

Thank you for the information, I forgot to mention that this will be her last litter for sure (I decided that when she seized, but she was already very pregnant).

Luckily, the scabs near her nose (There are none covering it) fell off yesterday. They had been smelling of rotten flesh, but they are healed now.

Regarding the dropper, I usually just put a drop on her lips or let her suck, it takes longer, but I don't want to risk getting fluid in her lungs.

What kind of eye medicine? She is very squirmy and even when I burrito her she seems to get away, so I have a hard time cleaning her eyes.

I will get some of that tomorrow! Is it safe around the eyes/mouth/nose? What if she were to lick some of it?
Thank you so much for the advice!

 

[Ronda]

Erin,

I've used AK-TRACIN in the past and it works pretty well. There is another brand that I can't recall the name of at the moment that I believe is prescription and I got my hands on it when I purchased a herd. It worked in 1 application. Cleaned every eye infection up. I'll see if I can find the name for you.

Yes, it's okay for around the face and mouth. I would assume that they would consider the possibility of an animal eating this as it is for animals. Hum, I wonder if human eye medication could be used on chins?

Ronda

 

[tunes]

I would start her on a little bit of trimethoprim sulfa and some Tobramycin drops in the eyes.

If you really suspect that her eyes are damaged, be careful about trying to open them or rolling the lids around. Not doubting Ronda's advice, but I've had kits with injuries like you describe. When the eyes were open, it just caused the eyeball to pop and deflate. For now I would just keep them as clean as you can with warm water and I've just used the Tobramycin and gently massaged over the area with a Q-tip so that some of it at least soaks in. That, in conjunction with the sulfa usually will take care of any infection.

While I agree with Nicole in part, I would also be watching very carefully where the squishy, swollen feeling is. For me, that has usually meant there is infection (pus under the skin from the puncture marks). It's possible that if you use the sulfa, that will decrease or possibly clear up. I honestly have not known any of my kits to have squishy swollen heads when they were normal and healthy.

 

[6Dusters]

Erin I had a kit who was bit on the lower lid of his eye by a sibling shortly after birth during a nursing squabble. The eye was shut like that photo you posted. Crusted over and swollen. At that point I didn't know if it was the eye or ??

So the vet prescribed an antibiotic drop. I wamed up water put through my Brita filter and swabed the area to keep it clean with a cotton ball twice a day. ( the burrito wrap in a towel ) I DID NOT FORCE THE EYE TO OPEN. I just kept it clean and put the drops on the closed eye and it went to the surrounding skin. When the eye area improved in a couple days I then carefully tried the lids and they moved open to a slit. I then put the drops in the eye at that point. It did get better and the problem was not the eye but a bad bite to the lower lid.

I am quite sure a vet would prescribe some sort of antibiotic cream and perhaps a follow up with a drop when the eye stayed open. If you do go to the vet make sure you understand a possible eye drop may be needed as well. Might as well get them all at one time and avoid the stress of the visits. Keep the baby warm during transport with a water bottle or heating pad and snuggle that little one.
Best of luck. The poor little thing.

 

[Riven]

Erin what are you feeding? I would be very concerned if the leg deal as happened three times. I had one kit born that way out of probably a thousand born here, he had it since the day he was born, also no bladder control, indicating it was probably a spinal issue during development.

 

[ErinsChins]

Hi guys! Thanks for the info. I've got a vet appointment this evening, so I will get what you guys have recommended. I also have to ask, momma had a calcium injection last time and her teeth are WHITE. Can I/should I request another one? Riven-I feed a 75 to 25 mix of prsc and mazuri. Thanks again!

 

[Riven]

I know a lot of people feed the PANR, I'm not sure if it's the same formula, I know I've heard they were changing it etc. but honestly I never felt my chins did great on it, I was feeding PANR when I had my one with the spinal issue. Especially if her teeth are white I'd say there is very well a feed issue not providing enough of the right nutrients. I've heard a lot of people really like the Nutrena Naturewise, I know at one time I talked to Gene Adcock and he said Nutrena was pretty good to use as well. I have mine custom milled and wouldn't go back for anything.

Are you supplementing her with calcium? I would give her a 1/2 of a calcium tablet maybe every other day for a couple weeks. Calcium loss from teeth and bones don't happen over night, and it takes time for them to recover from it and build the stores back up. Calcium is used in various places in the body, including in the muscles. I don't know what, if anything the vet determined caused the seizure but hypocalcemia can cause muscle tension and spasms.

 

[ErinsChins]

I mean, I have checked and have no (reasonable) way to get nutrena, tradition, etc.

The vet said toxemia (sp) was the cause. I will start giving calcium though as well. So no injection?

 

[tunes]

I would check again. Every farm store out here carries Nutrena, and I would find it really hard to believe that no one does near you.

 

[ErinsChins]

Tunes- What exactly am I looking for? When I called every tractor supply(and mize) within a 2 hour radius they all told me that they do carry nutrena, but are currently only being offered the horse feed by the supplier. This was I think maybe 2 months ago when you suggested it?

 

[starleomach]

Erin,
I had a kit (we called her bubble head for this) that had a soft swollen spot after recieving a bite from a sibling. Turned out it was a pocket of air between her skin and skull. A needle and hose drained it out. We only had to drain it once.