How early is too early to wean? Mom can't feed all the kits, is losing weight

[EricaWieser]

Hi,

My name is Erica and I'm new to this forum. I joined specifically to ask advice. I breed chinchillas and normally everything goes smoothly but recently I have been wondering how soon is the earliest I can wean a baby from its mother?

The reason why I am asking is because my favorite girl, a homo-beige female named Daisy, gave birth to three kits and is having problems feeding them. They are wonderful kits, three homo-beige daughters, that I want to keep as breeders and add to my herd. Their mom is my favorite chin; she sits in my arms for half an hour straight just letting me pet her. I rescued her from a one foot square cage on a large ranch. She had barbered the fur off of her back legs and was pretty miserable. I took her in, gave her dust baths and fresh hay and exercise, and all her fur is now grown back. She's a great chinchilla. But when she first arrived at my place, she immediately gave birth to two kits (hetero beige; the previous breeder had her paired with a standard gray). That batch of kits took a lot out of her and she lost way too much weight just feeding them two. I had to keep her out of breeding for a while to get her to gain weight back (I don't let my females get housed with a male unless they're healthy enough to breed ) and it was almost a full year before her next kits were born.

Now this batch, because I didn't let her get with a male until she gained her weight back and was healthy again, was three kits. But I'm worried the kits are going to suck the life out of her like the last batch did, and that one was only two kits.

Here's Daisy's weight:
Feb 18th: 904 grams
She gave birth on Feb 22nd
Feb 24th: 760 grams
Mar 10th: 735 grams
Mar 21st: 680 grams

I think she might be losing weight too fast. I try to hand feed the kits a little bit, but they all prefer their mom's milk to the mixture I give them. I can't be there during the day because I work, so it's not possible for me to be there to hand feed them except maybe three times a day. They haven't taken to the water bottle full of milk on the side of the cage. Around March 12th, Daisy tried to abandon one of the kits, but my wonderful fiance took it out of the cage and hand fed it. Him bothering it stimulated Daisy's motherly instincts and she took it back and has been feeding it.

What should I do? I love Daisy and I don't want her to lose too much weight because she's got three kits sucking the life out of her. I have tried hand feeding the kits to help lighten her burden a little but they haven't taken to the water bottle full of milk with her there offering a tastier alternative. The babies are now readily eating timothy hay, not just mouthing it. Should I take her out of the cage from them? Would they be more likely to drink the warm milk from the water bottle if she wasn't there? Does anyone have any experience weaning baby chinchillas early to spare the mom? The kits are four weeks and two days old.

 

[tunes]

What was mom's normal, pre-pregnancy weight? Chins can gain anywhere from 50-300 gm when they are pregnant. More importantly is what is her physical condition? Is she thin? Can you feel ribs?

I have had kits survive nicely at four weeks of age when separated from mom. You have mom's weight, what are the kits weights? Are they a decent size?

If you check the FAQ's under breeding and babies, you will find an FAQ that gives a dry recipe you can give your kits. You may also need to hand feed if they are not doing well weight wise.

 

[jags]

I agree with Peg that more info is needed to make a good decision. The kits weight is also very important. I have had many 3-4 week olds survive and prosper with the dry formula and 50/50 apple juice and water mixture when the moms could not or would not care for them.

 

[Dreamlite]

What do you mean by barbared her hair off her hind legs? Is she a furchewer? If so she shouldn't be in breeding anyway. Her previous litter was twins and you say she lost a lot of weight on that litter. How much? How old is she?

 

[Spoof]

tunes asked some questions that we'll need answers to.

Couple of thoughts;

All moms loose weight nursing kits but some are harder hit than others.

If you breed the kits watch them closely as they may do the same thing. I have noticed that it can be a passable trait.

I have weaned a couple of kits at 4 weeks and they have done well if they were fat to begin with.

 

[EricaWieser]

That's a good point, let me go weigh the babies. *goes and weighs them*
They are 141, 109, and 146 grams. Ah, I see, good point. The littlest kit should be with its mom a bit more. I've weaned kits at 150 grams before without problems, but never one at 109.

As to the comment about 'furchewers shouldn't be breeders', this wasn't like she just spontaneously chewed her fur off. She only chewed her fur when she was kept in a one foot square metal cage on a big breeding ranch with absolutely zero play time and very hot, humid temperatures. Now that she's in my care she doesn't chew her fur at all. If she had continued, yes, I wouldn't consider her a good breeder. But since coming to me she has let all of her fur grow back and no longer barbers herself.

Her age is unknown because she came from a big breeding ranch and her records weren't clear. There are records she gave birth in 2010, which makes her probably about 4 years old.

Daisy's normal weight is around 600 grams, so I guess since that one kit's only 109 grams and Daisy's still above 600, I'll keep the kits with her for one more week and weigh them all again a week from now. Thank you everyone for the help.

 

[EricaWieser]

Two things:
I weighed Daisy again and in the three days since I last weighed her, she dropped to 650 grams. That's dangerously low and I really don't like it. She dropped thirty grams in three days.

Also, I read the FAQ and learned about powdered milk as a possible food source for baby chinchillas, which I had not thought of before. Thank you, that was a really good suggestion. I put some in the cage with the babies and they are readily eating it.

With those two things in mind, I took the mom out of the cage away from her babies.

 

[EricaWieser]

Update: I spent the day hand feeding the babies and teaching them how to use the milk bottle on the side of the cage. The mom, Daisy, spent the day separate from the kits. After teaching them how to use the milk bottle and laying out dry powdered milk, I feel better about Daisy being in the cage with the kits and have returned her to her babies. She missed them. awww

 

[Cuddlebug]

Kits should be left with their mother until they weigh at least 200 grams. I would be rotating these kits so that the little one gets time with mom without its sibs. I would also give them the mom and kit mix mentioned in an earlier post. You did mot tell us what mom's normal, non-pregnant weight is. It is important to know that. As far as the furchewing goes, if they chew once, you should consider the useless for breeding even if they never do it again. They have proven that they have the trait and can pass that on to their kits.

The breeder sounds like what we refer to as a back yard breeder (think puppy mill). Any breeder who keep them too warm, and breeds animals that obviously furchew, not to mention doesn't even bother keeping records on their chins, is not a good breeder and I would not breed anything that comes from them.

 

[EricaWieser]

The breeder sounds like what we refer to as a back yard breeder (think puppy mill). Any breeder who keep them too warm, and breeds animals that obviously furchew, not to mention doesn't even bother keeping records on their chins, is not a good breeder and I would not breed anything that comes from them.

Please don't jump to conclusions and say mean things. I actually like the person who I bought this chinchilla from a lot. He inherited his herd from another person so it's not his fault there aren't records. The heat is also something that only happened during the first summer he had the inherited chinchilla ranch as his setup was new and he didn't yet know how much air conditioning was required. As time passed he was able to fix problems like heating and air conditioning as they arose and now the herd is much better taken care of. I am quite grateful that he is breeding chinchillas and wouldn't insult him by calling him names like 'back yard breeder'. He's just a guy trying to do his best with what he has, and without him I wouldn't be able to have beige chins at all. They are an extremely rare color where I am.

 

[GinChin]

You did mot tell us what mom's normal, non-pregnant weight is. It is important to know that.

She said 600 grams was normal weight cuddle.

 

[tunes]

Now you have me curious. Beige is eeeeeeverywhere. People can't get rid of them because pet owners don't like the red eyes. Where are you located? You don't need to get specific, just your state. I've just never heard someone say that beige chins are rare. Come to my house - I have tons!

 

[Tagna]

I have had more beige rescues it seems. And most of the byb ads around here are for beige chins.....or as they liked to be called that rare "cinnamon" colour!

 

[threewingedfury]

Please don't jump to conclusions and say mean things. I actually like the person who I bought this chinchilla from a lot. He inherited his herd from another person so it's not his fault there aren't records. The heat is also something that only happened during the first summer he had the inherited chinchilla ranch as his setup was new and he didn't yet know how much air conditioning was required. As time passed he was able to fix problems like heating and air conditioning as they arose and now the herd is much better taken care of. I am quite grateful that he is breeding chinchillas and wouldn't insult him by calling him names like 'back yard breeder'. He's just a guy trying to do his best with what he has, and without him I wouldn't be able to have beige chins at all. They are an extremely rare color where I am.

You mentioned in your original thread that you were from North Carolina.. is this "big breeder" ranch in North Carolina as well? Would be good to know some of the breeders left around here because there's nothing but back yard breeders left that I'm aware of... I'm in North Carolina, beige is far from a rare color here, or anywhere to tell the truth.

 

[JoAnne]

how early is too early to wean

We usually wean at 49 days, but sometime keep them longer if they are small from a large litter. Has Mom started weaning them herself? (The hair will start growing in around the nipple). Are the little ones eating on their own? Do they get a supplement? You could wean the largest one and leave the others. However, giving Mom a little supplement will also help her maintain her weigh while she nurses. P.M. me if you have any other questions.

 

[lauralynne]

We usually wean at 49 days, but sometime keep them longer if they are small from a large litter. Has Mom started weaning them herself? (The hair will start growing in around the nipple). Are the little ones eating on their own? Do they get a supplement? You could wean the largest one and leave the others. However, giving Mom a little supplement will also help her maintain her weigh while she nurses. P.M. me if you have any other questions.

49 days? That's an odd number. I've never heard of that, may I ask where you learned it?

Also, we are a forum because we believe in public knowledge and learning. The OP pm-ing you with questions would be of no benefit to others.

 

[Kansas City Chinchillas]

49 days is seven weeks which is an acceptable time to wean kits if they of good size.

 

[jags]

Many ranchers use 49 days. I wean at 6-8 weeks depending on weight and how meaty they are.

 

[EricaWieser]

You mentioned in your original thread that you were from North Carolina.. ... I'm in North Carolina, beige is far from a rare color here, or anywhere to tell the truth.

I spent several months before purchasing any chins trying to find homo-beige chinchillas for sale. No one had any available. Chinchillas.com, the local breeders, nobody had a homo-beige. I even went to the MCBA show in the neighboring state, trying to find someone who had homo-beige available. Eventually I just broke down a got a few hetero-beiges and decided to breed my own homo-beige chinchillas. Although I remain on the looking for homo-beige chinchillas, I still have yet to see any for sale. It's probably good I started breeding them myself. I now have five homo-beige females, two hetero-beige females, and a hetero-beige male. I hope by this time next year to have bred a homo-beige male that I can use as a stud. My plan is for whichever female gives birth to him to be be paired with Fifel, my white-gray male. It's a breeding scheme I've been working on for almost a full year now, come June. So far I have mostly spent that time learning that hetero-beige cross hetero-beige produces an annoyingly high number of standard gray and hetero-beige. Wah wah waaah. But yeah, if you have a homo-beige male, let me know.

 

[Cuddlebug]

Please don't jump to conclusions and say mean things. I actually like the person who I bought this chinchilla from a lot. He inherited his herd from another person so it's not his fault there aren't records. The heat is also something that only happened during the first summer he had the inherited chinchilla ranch as his setup was new and he didn't yet know how much air conditioning was required. As time passed he was able to fix problems like heating and air conditioning as they arose and now the herd is much better taken care of. I am quite grateful that he is breeding chinchillas and wouldn't insult him by calling him names like 'back yard breeder'. He's just a guy trying to do his best with what he has, and without him I wouldn't be able to have beige chins at all. They are an extremely rare color where I am.

I was just going by the information you gave us at that point shich said you rescued the chinchilla and listed the conditions it had been in. It sounded pretty bad. I am sorry if I upset you. Hopefully your friend is doing much better with his herd.

I agree, beige is far from rare. You can get tons of them around her and from what I understand, throughout the US.