Chinn not eating after incisor cracked!

[ticklechin]

I have to wonder about some vets and why they treat rodents like they are disposable. The vets I use RX motility drugs almost everytime a chin is sick and will not eat on their own, they al least want the owner to have it on hand in case.

Chins who can eat will not shun food until they go into stasis, and I would not feed this chin anything but CC. Adding things to his diet to just get him to eat will change the balance of the bacteria in the digestive tract-right now its a breeding ground for bad bacteria since the system is not working and it can lead to enternitis also. When or if the digestive tract gets moving-the longer its stopped the less the chance it will recover-the problem with the not eating can be diagnosed. There is not much anyone here can do at this point without you using the drugs, the digestive tract historically will not restart on its own without the drugs.

 

[Bostongirl'sChin75]

Here is what I would have done when I was told to make an appointment. I would have taken my chin, put him in his carrier, gotten in the car and went to the vet and sat in the waiting room until I and my chin were seen by the doctor. But that is just me and I tend to be very aggressive when it comes to my pets and my children being sick or in pain.

It amazes me how some vets treat animals like they are nothing more than a pair of shoes that we can replace when they are worn out!

 

[AsianFairy]

Today at the vet:
Took xrays... he is in stasis but vet isn't too worried because he isn't lethargic and he is selectively eating... no blockages

gave subQ fluids... put on reglan for mobility... buprenex for pain (and I asked... buprenex does no cause GI stasis and is perfectly safe to give a chin in stasis... better for the pain too)

Vet said I am doing a good job keeping him hydrated and full. Hopefully the meds will kick in and we should see some poop in a few days. Not giving subQ fluids at home... vet said it wasn't needed as he is keeping plenty hydrated with oral fluids... but to call if he stops taking oral fluids and I can come pick some up

and for those who are wondering... this vet is very well knowledged in exotics and has been practicing for a while... got his info off the vet thread in the forum...

so I guess now we just need some good energy sent our way!! He has started picking at some hay/pellets today but the vet said because his stomach is so full he prob isn't hungry... once the meds kick in and the stomach empties he should start eating again

Keep your fingers crossed!!

 

[ticklechin]

First you should read this article to see how bad your situation is and why you should not be taking it lightly like you vet is.


http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

Second:
Opiods can cause the slow down and motility drugs hould be used. From Veterinary Formulary:

OPIATES
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**May cause sedation and GI slowing . Other indications may also be present (e.g. butorphanol has anti-tussive/coughing effects and some anti-emetic/nausea effects).

Buprenorphine (Buprenex)
0.05 mg/kg SQ/IV, q8-12h, (1,2,3)
0.05-0.1 mg/kg, SQ, (2)

Butorphanol (Torbugesic, Torbutrol, Torb)
2 mg/kg, SQ, q2-4h, (1,2)

Morphine sulfate (Morphine) MAY CAUSE NAUSEA
2-5 mg/kg, SQ/IM, q4h, (1,2)
10 mg/kg, SQ/IM, q4h, (2)

Oxymorphone
0.2-0.5 mg/kg, SQ/IM, q6-12h, (1,2,3)

 

[Stackie]

Buprenex does cause the gut to slow down. I was giving a chin with a severe skin infection on his legs buprenex. I had to hand feed (he was also eating on his own) him because the buprenex slowed the GI system down and he was producing small, hard poops because of it. Once the infection started to improve and his skin wasn't peeling off anymore, he was immediately switched to metacam. Metacam is sufficient enough to control the pain. There is no way I would give a chin that was already in stasis buprenex.

I have also dealt with a chin in stasis caused by an impaction. The pain medication was metacam. Once he had received a few doses it really perked him up, so I know it helps.

 

[menagerie]

put on reglan for mobility...

Reglan is a MOTILITY drug, not a mobility drug. It doesn't help them get around.

Motility is an organism's ability to move food through its digestive tract, i.e., peristaltics (gut motility, intestinal motility, etc.).

 

[aznmexaggie]

Why is this vet making it seem like stasis isn't a big deal? It is a BIG DEAL, no matter if a blockage is involved, bloat is involved, it doesn't matter. It can be FATAL. He sounds like one of those vets that are too stubborn and full of themselves to listen to any suggestions or questions of the owner. I refuse to go to those types of vets. The vet should work out a treatment plan with the owner and discuss the owner's concerns, not just do whatever he wants to do.

This chin should have been given motility drugs to begin with... and I don't know why he is prescribing opiates for a chin in stasis when Metacam would work just as well, without causing more of a slowdown of the GI tract.

Anyway, I hope he will bounce back from this. GI Stasis is not an easy thing to overcome and it requires a lot of dedcated effort on the owner's part.

 

[RDZCRanch]

I would listen to Dawn's (Ticklechin) advice over a vet when it comes to chinchilla digestive issues. Even knowledgeable vets have areas where they aren't experts. He may treat exotics, but he does not solely treat chinchillas. Even the best vets can make mistakes.

ETA: I agree 100% with the three posts above me as well.

 

[Claire D]

Please can you clarify for us the exact regimen this chinchila is having now? What treatment is he on, how much, how often?
Is he producing droppings at all?


One of the things which disturbs me in this thread is the apparent complacency being shown with regards to a chinchilla with slow gut motility/stasis.
Those of us who have had the unfortunate experience of dealing with chins with gut stasis/bloat are (probably) in a far better position to advise you than a vet who does not think stasis is an issue, is not prepared to give sub-cut fluids, & who is happy to inform a client that Buprenorphine is fine for a chin with stasis.
I have & will continue to use Buprenorphine with chins in stasis or suffering from bloat but only when the benefits outweigh the risks & we are using everything else listed above (fluids, gut motility drugs, massage, warmth etc etc). In the initial stages Buprenorphine can be a wonderful addition BUT it must be used with caution - there are many articles documenting the slowing of gut transit as a side effect of Buprenorphine.

 

[AsianFairy]

oops i ment motility... I asked the vet for metacam with the but he wanted to go with buprenex instead... unfortunatly I can't prescribe medications so I have to take what I can get... I will talk to him about it again tho...

 

[ticklechin]

When my vets diagnosed stasis they took a ultrasound of the digestive tract to actually see if the gut was moving-I wonder how a x-ray can show movement, as far as I know it will show distention and gas but it can't show movement. If the chin does have gas I would add simethicone to the mix of treatments. I may be wrong about the x-ray since it was not used in my chins diagnosis and the ultrasound was as cheap as a x-ray so $$ was not a factor in using it.

 

[AsianFairy]

Please can you clarify for us the exact regimen this chinchila is having now? What treatment is he on, how much, how often?
Is he producing droppings at all?


One of the things which disturbs me in this thread is the apparent complacency being shown with regards to a chinchilla with slow gut motility/stasis.
Those of us who have had the unfortunate experience of dealing with chins with gut stasis/bloat are (probably) in a far better position to advise you than a vet who does not think stasis is an issue, is not prepared to give sub-cut fluids, & who is happy to inform a client that Buprenorphine is fine for a chin with stasis.
I have & will continue to use Buprenorphine with chins in stasis or suffering from bloat but only when the benefits outweigh the risks & we are using everything else listed above (fluids, gut motility drugs, massage, warmth etc etc). In the initial stages Buprenorphine can be a wonderful addition BUT it must be used with caution - there are many articles documenting the slowing of gut transit as a side effect of Buprenorphine.

He is on reglan 0.14ml orally twice a day for 10 days... buprenex 0.1ml orally twice a day for 5 days... He is not producing any droppings... xrays show that his stomach is full of food but there is a little bit of gas and a few droppings that he has not passed yet...

Maybe the vet thought that it would be okay for this particular case? I cannot reason as to why he did that... I did talk to him about my concerns of it slowing down the gut as I did with my previous vet and they both assured me in this situation it would be okay...

I do appreciate all the info everyone has given me but I am one of those people who trusts my vets 100%... maybe because I am in the veterinary field or maybe its because I have seen firsthand how knowledgeable they truly are despite criticism...

Thank you for all the tips, I will be more than happy to update anyone who is interested in my chinchilla's condition but I don't believe I will be visiting the forum anymore. The clashing of information is a bit too much and unlike most here I trust a vet with experience a bit more.

Thanks again

 

[AsianFairy]

When my vets diagnosed stasis they took a ultrasound of the digestive tract to actually see if the gut was moving-I wonder how a x-ray can show movement, as far as I know it will show distention and gas but it can't show movement. If the chin does have gas I would add simethicone to the mix of treatments. I may be wrong about the x-ray since it was not used in my chins diagnosis and the ultrasound was as cheap as a x-ray so $$ was not a factor in using it.

You can hear gut movement with the right equipment which is what we used... also you can see movement vs. nonmovement on xrays if you know how to properly interpret the gas patterns or absence thereof.

 

[menagerie]

What are you doing for him other than giving him drugs, food and water?

 

[tunes]

Thank you for all the tips, I will be more than happy to update anyone who is interested in my chinchilla's condition but I don't believe I will be visiting the forum anymore. The clashing of information is a bit too much and unlike most here I trust a vet with experience a bit more.

That's too bad. People are trying to help you because they have experience with this. You asked for information, people gave it to you - and now you're going to leave because they know nothing and your trust your vet 100%. Then why did you bother asking?

You'll have to excuse people here for not trusting vets 100% or even 50% when what the vet is saying is counterproductive to the health and welfare of the chin involved. Since many people here (and people speaking to you are rescues who have dealt with this multiple times) have actually dealt with this hands on and you haven't, I would think that the welfare of your chin would be more important to you than protecting your unnamed vets reputation.

 

[RDZCRanch]

I too work in the veterinary field and my chinchilla vet and I have known each other for years. He is extremely knowledgeable and I trust him quite a bit. Even he has said vets do not know everything. Exotic specialists see and treat so many animals that it is not a huge jump to realize that they don't know 100% of every animal they treat.

Vets have gone to school and only know as much as they are taught. They are not omnipotent.

It's wonderful that you have so much faith in your vet but as a chin owner for nine years and talking extensively with my vet I would take advice given by experienced members here that have lived and breathed chinchillas 100% for 10yrs+.

 

[Claire D]

I do appreciate all the info everyone has given me but I am one of those people who trusts my vets 100%... maybe because I am in the veterinary field or maybe its because I have seen firsthand how knowledgeable they truly are despite criticism...

Thank you for all the tips, I will be more than happy to update anyone who is interested in my chinchilla's condition but I don't believe I will be visiting the forum anymore. The clashing of information is a bit too much and unlike most here I trust a vet with experience a bit more.

I am sorry for your chin that you are not prepared to listen to people who spend their time giving advice & sharing information based on experience of treating chinchillas for conditions such as bloat/stasis & who are also asked by vets for advice. Good vets often admit that chinchilla owners are far more experienced & knowlegeable than they are & are willing to listen & discuss options.




In this situation your trust is misplaced & the really sad part is those of us who have taken the time to post are worried about the welfare of your chinchilla.
FWIW I think that leaving this forum & not taking the advice you have been given in this thread is a huge mistake - the cost of your mistake could well be paid by your chinchilla.

 

[AsianFairy]

Hello, I just wanted to give everyone an update. My chin is doing well, he started defecating the same night as his vet appointment and started eating/drinking more on his own... His droppings are few but normal... better than the nothingness we had before. He seems on his way to recovery... we are being very careful as to make sure he doesn't relapse... still syringe feeding him CC (which he is more willing to accept now) and giving him his meds twice a day as well as letting him out for playtime... He's more alert now, and more willing to fight us off when we try to give him is CC and meds, he definitely feels and even looks better...

I want to apologize if I came off as rude. I really do appreciate everyone's advice and if it hadn't been for the forum I would have never even thought about stasis and/or brought him to the vet to treat it. Tunes askes why I even bothered asking for advice if I didn't want to hear it... I would just like to point out I didnt come here asking for vet/treatment advice... my original post was simply asking what I could give my chin to get him to start eating after a painful cracked incisor

I realize that it seems I am trying to protect my vet. In reality I consulted 6 different vets (4 of whom I had worked with personally) and they all gave me the same treatment regimen. That is why I decided to stick with it... trust me I know all vets don't know everything 100%, esp when it comes to exotics... but when 6 different ones all say the same thing I feel more than comfortable than trusting them.

Thank you again to everyone for your advice... again if it wasn't for you guys the thought of GI stasis would not have even crossed my mind and who knows where my chin would be now. Keep up the good work

 

[menagerie]

I'm glad to hear that your chin is doing better. Keep a close eye on him as he is not out of the woods yet.

I realize that it seems I am trying to protect my vet. In reality I consulted 6 different vets (4 of whom I had worked with personally) and they all gave me the same treatment regimen. That is why I decided to stick with it... trust me I know all vets don't know everything 100%, esp when it comes to exotics... but when 6 different ones all say the same thing I feel more than comfortable than trusting them.

Unfortunately, all six may have had the same answer because that's all they learned at vet school or have learned along the way. The amount of time vets spend learning about exotics in school is very brief. The way I look at it is, a vet needs to know a little about a lot of different animals. As a caretaker, I need to know all I can about the few that I deal with on a daily basis.

 

[ticklechin]

As far as the original question about eating, there is nothing you can do to get a chin to eat on its own until its ready. You hand feed until that point.