Arlington TX SPCA bust - General Discussions

[RDZCRanch]

How many vets have THAT much experience with chinnie fungus anyway? Why is this even an issue? I don't get it!

I don't either. My vet has plenty of experience though :neener: He got to treat my 20 fungus chins, one case of ringworm from me and another breeder nearby that had about 7 fungus chins and pretty much every case within 20 miles of his office. He's VERY experienced.:thumbsup:

I hope people disregard the flaring tempers in this thread and see through to the good advice given by the people with experience for how to handle the fungus. If you do not have an Arlington chin, please do not use tinactin on your chins as a preventative in their regular bathing. This advice refers only to those with chins that have been exposed to the fungus or close to the fungus and could possibly contract it. We are only recommending it for a few weeks, not the chinchillas lifespan.

 

[Megan]

Heres the thing folks. Vets are almost always going to tell you to come into the office. Same reason why if you call your doctor, they will tell you to come into the office. THis is how they MAKE money and how they MAKE a LIVING. Not to mention a vet cannot make a diagnosis over the phone they need to phyiscally see the animal to treat it. This is another reason why they want you to bring it in...

Tinactin has proven itself tried and true for years. Respected breeders, and (GASP) ranchers have used it for years. They've also used various other tried and true methods over time.

I will take the advice of a well respected rancher over 99% of the vets out there. The ranchers have day-to-day experience with chinchillas, and typically treat them themselves. Vets have very little experience, and most of it is coming from a text book. Sorry- i'll go with the real experience.


Edited to add: These animals are in a highly stressed situation. They are being passed around from person to person, home to home, and going on long road trips. Fungus is bound to happen, and typically comes out when they are stressed. Why stress them out even more, and send them packing to a vet? Let them get to where they are going, treat them at home and let them de-stress.

 

[Stackie]

Is the vet saying that tinactin is not effective is also coming from the vet who apparently says that they can get a culture of fungus in 3/4 days, when it usually takes weeks for an accurate culture to be grown? Hmm..

It has been beaten to death but please take the tried and true advice that is accurate and correct.

This isn't an issue about money- I couldn't care less if you tote your chin off to the vet and waste hundreds- what I care about the chin. Taking a chin to the vet for fungus or just even a check up is completely unnecessary, especially when they have been subjected to this amount of stress. The fungus can safely and effectively be prevented/treated at home. My vet is awesome and I don't even take my chins for "wellness" checks- all they could do is tell me that they appeared fine, their teeth appeared fine, they didn't have issues with their eyes and they were breathing fine- all things I can see at home.

 

[Claire D]

I have to say I just don't understand the mentality of continuing to stress these chins by taking the for completely unnecessary trips to the vets - fungal infection is not going to kill them.
What does anyone considering taking their chins to the vets for a check up expect to gain?

There's plenty of good, knowledgeable, chinchilla-specific advice given in this thread &, sadly, it would seem that Rick is not going to add to this thread, preferring instead to undermine the advice with emails.


Fact: These chins have come from a stressful environment & have been unsettled for a couple of months or more now.
This leaves them susceptible to general infection, gut problems, & fungal infection - quarantine practices for a minimum of 28 days, good hygiene, & careful observation in a settled environment are required.

Fact: Some of these chins are showing signs of fungal infection.
It therefore makes sense from a purely practical infection control point of view to quarantine them and to treat them as though they have been exposed to fungal spores (even though they do not develop fungal infections it is perfectly reasonable to expect them to have had contact with fungal spores which is a risk however small) - through both their environments (transport cages, SPCA holding areas, communal play area) & handling (it is highly unlikely that carers and transport people washed their hands between each chinchilla)
This is all basic infection control - nothing more, nothing less. It is not panic but it is a cautious approach which is appropriate to this particular rescue situation.


Fact: Ranchers, breeders, pet owners, & rescues have been successfully treating chinchillas for fungal problems for many years using OTC products such as Tinacin.
Just because a vet disagrees with that treatment does not mean people cannot/should not use it.
I imagine that a fairly high proportion of people on this forum have disagreed with their vets on the treatment of chinchillas over the years - vets are professionals, have trained for years, & have more knowledge on aspects of animals than we "lay" people will ever have - but they are not always right.
In this case it makes sense to use an anti-fungal powder in the dust baths as a preventative measure.



I'm probably going to be attacked for this but I'm going to say it anyway.
In all honesty, these chins should have been properly quarantined, examined & assessed fully, treated for any fungal infections or gut problems, transitioned onto new food, & then transported to their new homes.
Whilst I understand there was a degree of urgency this whole situation could have been avoided if it was not done in such a hurry & in such a dictatorial manner. 70 chins are a lot to handle but if a rescue is not up to the challenge then they should ask for help from those who can. I understand plenty of help was offered and unreservedly turned down & that's a real pity.



At the end of the day it is up to each individual who has these chins to deal with them as they see fit - those who are choosing to risk stressing the chins further for a pointless vet check will do so & those who are allowing the chins time to settle & to observe them before deciding whether to have a vet check or not will do so.


I find it sad that what should be a positive rescue has turned into such a drama - calling forum members twits & disparaging the very people who helped make this rescue possible is unforgivable not to mention shameful.


I truly hope that all the chins do very well & have long, contented lives with their new owners.

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

My chin vet who is excellent told me that she sees nothing wrong about using tinactin or sulfur. She said if it works use it, there is no harm in using it. I am going to ask her what she thinks about the chins seeing a vet immediately. I am willing to bet that she is not going to recommend they be seen immediately (unless they show signs of illness). She probably will recommend that they be seen in a couple of weeks (maybe). We will see. I will call her later today. I trust her compeletly

 

[RDZCRanch]

from the email:
"THE USE OF TINACTIN IN THE DUSTBATH IS NOT RECOMMENDED
1. It is not always effective in the presence of lesions and in fact may lead to resistence of the organisms present rather than eradicating them, making the treatment to rid the chins of the fungus entirely VERY DIFFICULT. There are cases where this has happened. You cannot control the concentration of the drug on any area of the skin or hair, making effective overall treatment impossible."

the email goes on and I suggest you all check your inboxes and read it, share it with your own individual vets and give them the vet's phone number that was provided.

Dr. Brown also recommends nuts, raisins and fruits as excellent treats for chinchillas. She also recommends giving carrots and other fresh vegetables(known to cause bloat) to be given as about 10% or less of their diet. I would trust doctor brown with a ferret or a rabbit which seem to be her area of expertise...but not a chinchilla.

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=666&S=1&SourceID=43

 

[Jill of Beans]

I stated what was in the email.

I am not an expert, nor a breeder, I am a novist pet owner. When I joined this forum I came here looking for advice, and have learned a lot in my time here.

 

[RDZCRanch]

I stated what was in the email.

I am not an expert, nor a breeder, I am a novist pet owner. When I joined this forum I came here looking for advice, and have learned a lot in my time here.

I know...I quoted the post exactly as it was worded. I do not remember stating anything about you in my post? I was simply refuting the "expertise" of the veterinarian that is being used to justify the bad advice being given to those who got chinchillas.

 

[JennyBug]

OK, I haven't been able to get on here for a while, but now that I have I'm blown away.

As the owner of the chin who was actually diagnosed with the fungus, I can tell you that it does not look like ringworm to me. Now, granted, I have NO experience with ringworm in chinchillas (heck, I've never even had it), but from descriptions I've found and that have been posted on here, I doubt it is the ringworm fungus. The exposed skin around her nose is not scaly; in fact, it almost looks like her nose had a fur slip. Both she and her cagemate are on internal meds, and the "infected" chin is on a topical treatment as well. Her cagemate has shown no signs of being infected, and I have not seen baldynose (otherwise known as Nova) messing with her bald spot at all - no bathing, no scratching, nothing. Once again, granted, I'm not in the room, staring at them 24/7, but from what I understand, the ringworm fungus is extremely itchy and I would have seen some sort of scratching before now. I will continue with their treatment for the next week, and then we will see where they are. They are currently in a room inaccessible to the other animals in our house, and nobody leaves the room without sanitizing their hands (even if they DIDN'T interact with the chins).

I honestly don't know what to say about all of this drama. I'm just happy that these animals have loving homes, which is what I thought a part of this forum was about. I always come here for support, but quite frankly, I'm seeing ugly sides of people that I never wanted to see. Call me a twit if you like, but I will never regret helping with these girls.

Please, if you have good advice that has worked in the past, give it. Part of why I come here is to learn. But please remember not all of us have raised herds of 100+ chinchillas; some of us just want pets.

Thank you to all of you who have given advice. I greatly appreciate it. If this post is inappropriate in any way, please feel free to remove it.

 

[Stackie]

Jenny, no one is ridiculing NOR belittling the people that took the chins? The ones helping are not the ones that called people "twits", all of us are on here offering advice to those that got the chins and trying to help them. We aren't ridiculing them at all.

What caused the turmoil is when conflicting advice was given- i.e., no need to QT these chins, feed them food that is not good, take them to the vet when it is not needed, along with a tantrum and name calling, that things got a little heated and it was directly aimed toward that person offering the bad advice. Hence we are looking at for the well-being of the chins.

 

[JennyBug]

Post above was edited. I felt my original post was too personal, so please disregard.

Not intending to add to the drama - really, I teach seventh grade... I have enough drama in my life already!

 

[mishellyshel]

lol jenny! thanks for giving the descrip of the girls you got. it helps us other pet owners know what to look for. maybe you could post some pictures??

 

[JennyBug]

Haha, I need to get some! I've been working on getting them to trust me, but having to put antibiotics on Nova's nose does not make me her favorite person. Little Pele will sit on me and watch TV for a little while, though!

 

[Becky]

Jennybug- Noone is putting you down. People are just trying to put some facts out there, from people that are knowedgeable about chins and their care.

Around the nose is a classic place to find fungus. It often appears to be red and scaly, but sometimes just shows as a hair loss. It is actually the easiest place to clear up fungus, I think, because the hair there is short and comes back quickly.

Do what you think is best for your chins. That's the whole point. Noone can tell you if it is fungus or not without a test (which has a long waiting period). People have posted ways to clear up fungus (a pretty easy process) without a vet visit.

We have all had vet visits that have been less than helpful. An honest vet (with a few exceptions) will tell you they know nothing or next to nothing about chins (The first vet I went to was an exotics specialist. She tried to trim my chin's nails and told me my girl was a boy!). They study them for less than one day in vet school.

In the long run, though, you decide what is best for your chins.

 

[Brittany]

I have a question: Many of the people who are suggesting tinactin are recommending using it daily for 1-2 weeks (correct me if I'm wrong). But we all know that it is normally recommended to bathe chins only every few days so that their skin doesn't dry out. My question is won't bathing with tinactin/dust every day dry out their skin and cause itching? Or does the tinactin counteract that?

 

[RDZCRanch]

I have a question: Many of the people who are suggesting tinactin are recommending using it daily for 1-2 weeks (correct me if I'm wrong). But we all know that it is normally recommended to bathe chins only every few days so that their skin doesn't dry out. My question is won't bathing with tinactin/dust every day dry out their skin and cause itching? Or does the tinactin counteract that?

It's recommended every other day unless your chin has a spot of fungus. If your chin has a spot of fungus you go to every day. As a preventative I would only do it for one to two weeks. Since it's not a prolonged period of time it will do no harm to the animal's skin. Show chinchillas are bathed daily for a week to two weeks before being taken to a show and none have skin problem or they'd do poorly at shows. Hope that helps!

 

[Brittany]

yes thanks! I've never shown so I wouldn't have known that. Makes sense though.

 

[Bethany]

Sorry I was replying to the wrong thread

 

[starleomach]

ALso with the dusting daily or every other day. Keep in mind people showing chinchillas dust every day for a month before the show if not more. 2 weeks won't dry them out.

 

[Sasha]

I had a bad bout of fungus here. Because of the scratching, it had turned into a secondary infection in one of my chins. I used tinactin on all the chins - it was too late to quarantine. Those that had the fungus, had it in multiple places so using blu-kote to me was just not realistic. It was too spread out, obviously not localized so we used systemic anti-fungals (plus I could have easily missed areas). That being said, I would ONLY use the systemic anti-fungals if it is widespread. If its contained/localized, blu-kote/tinactin will be just fine IMO. Systemic antifungals are nothing to mess with. They can cause liver damage, so I'd only recommend it unless absolutely necessary.
It was interesting, though. Only the youngest chins (a few months old at the time, I had just brought them home) and my runt boy were the only ones affected. All the other older chins never showed any signs. So I do agree with what Peggy said a while back - it is totally immune related.
With these rescues though, I agree with the advice given. If the fungus is localized, better just to treat at home. Those guys have just been through so much, and whatever can be done to avoid more stress on them should be.
As far as cleaning - I used a 5-10% bleach solution on the cage/metal areas. I rinsed it off extremely well. All of their fleece items were in the wash with bleach/detergent (and run through again with just water). Any bowls/water bottles were like I usually do - in the dishwasher under sterilize setting. Wood was thrown away and replaced. Never have had fungus since, its been almost 2 years now. It was a pain in the butt to deal with but it is managable.