Zero Tolerance Policy

[Melissa]

So I was driving in the car this morning and heard this story about a 6 year old boy started cub scouts and was so excited he brought this camping tool(fork spoon and knife) to school to eat with it at lunch time. Well it was obviously found and the boy got out of school suspension and they are talking about sending him to a reform school for 45 days with other troubled children for bring a "weapon" to school.

Do you think the kid should've been punished? And to what extreme? What do you think about a blanket policy such as Zero Tolerance? Do you think intent should play a factor in judging if an item is a weapon? Do you think the parents should be blamed over the child for not checking/ allowing it to go to school with him?

I will try to find the news article on it to get more accurate details. But I was just wondering what you all thought.

ETA Found the Article.. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,564605,00.html

 

[ABBY W.]

I posted this one on my facebook. It's titled "Ode to the Death of Common Sense." That pretty much sums up my feelings about it. The litigious, rule-laden, one size fits all approach our school systems are taking is completely ridiculous! We tell children their are special and individual, but then apply the rules as if they are automatons! No wonder we are raising a generation of disillusioned apathetic youth!

 

[Chinniechantel]

That makes me furious, so much so that I would probably home school my kids if I had them. It is not fair to put an adult, one step fits all situation on children, they do not know and or understand the rules enough to be able to hold it against them in that drastic of a punishment. If I were that parent I would be taking this as far as I could on principle alone, but I know it is not that easy. I would like to read your little "ode" abby!

 

[mishellyshel]

not to mention that the parents may not have known that he brought it to school. i know my son who is 8 is always trying to sneak things in his backpack, of course they are not weapons but his DS or a ball or pokemon cards......but still sometimes it gets by me.
that boy was only 6, i highly doubt he knows that his cool camping tool would be considered a weapon.

 

[Becky]

The problem is, how do you know when someone does it with a purpose? If a kid brings a weapon to school and the schools do nothing, people would have a fit when/if something happened.

It is a no win situation! If the school reacts, they are too strict. If they ignore, they are not taking care of the kids.

Sure, age plays a part in it, but there are instances of kids as young as 6 killing other kids. Who is going to be responsible for deciding if it's nothing or if it's real? I don't want that responsibility on my shoulders!

 

[Peep_erz]

The school should have taken it away, told the kid it could be dangerous, and given it back to his parents notifying them that it may fit into the school "weapons" category.

 

[Luci]

i agree with becky. we cant have a blanket Zero Tolerance policy. but we also cant assume that young children will all be nieve when it comes to "weapons" (whether they know its a weapon or not). in this particular situation, the child should not be punished because he wasnt aware of his actions.

maybe schools need to have a specific board which reviews these types of instances to determine what the intent was. the punishment he received seems a bit extreme. 45 days in reform school....seriously? a young boyscout will be there with "troubled" children. it doesnt seem like it fits at all.

still, there should be a punishment. when i make mistakes, i pay the consequences. an in-school suspension may be the better option because the boy will have learned to be more careful about what he brings to school. there needs to be a way for schools (and of course parents) to teach their kids what's considered a weapon. and yes parents need to keep up on what goes to school with their kids. while im not a parent, and i do understand the rush in the morning, i still feel they need to be aware.

in regards to zero tolerance, i went to a private school where zero tolerance was enforced. my campus was always safe, pre-k to 12th grade. with gun threats, bombings, fights, etc, its better to be safe than sorry. and if there needs to be some set of rules to teach kids when theyre young, then maybe thats the best type of preventative medicine.

 

[tunes]

I half agree with you Becky and half not. I agree that there was some type of punishment needed, whether the child knew what he was doing or not, because you can't pick and choose who to punish. But, I think 45 days in reform school for a 6 year old is absolutely assanine. Give him a 3 day in school suspension, and have him talk to a counselor so they can explain why it happened and why it should never happen again in the future. Or, as Luci suggested, some type of advisory board to review each case individually so that the punishment is more befitting of the crime.

A little kid getting excited over his Boyscout camping gear is now scarred for life because he let that enthusiasm bubble over into an inappropriate venue. I think that's just sad.

 

[Rickman]

I think I brought this out at C+Q's;
My daughter, 13 at he time, walked out the door to go to school one morning, realized it was chilly, and grabbed the first hoodie she saw in the closet, as her ride was waiting.
When she got to school, went to her locker, and as she took it off, heard something hit the door, stuck her hand in pocket, and found a small, 2 in. fishing knife, put it back, and closed her locker. Next period, she was summoned to the principals office, who had the knife in her hand, [another student saw it, and reported her] and called me, at work.
Suspended her, pending school board meeting, and led me to believe it was no big deal!
The school board meeting was like the SPANISH INQUISION!!! I'd have brought a lawyer had I known it was going to be that bad!! Principal did an about-face, [she did get a Directorship position the next year] and recommended EXPULSION!!! State law is final, and non-forgiving!!
She was EXPELLED, and in this state, CANNOT go to another public school!!
Alternative school only, and by appointment only! Had to have a meeting with an Will County Director, and that took 6 weeks to find out that was available!
In the meantime, I'm trying to deal with my daughter, who's heartbroken that this happened, and waiting for "the Dad that can fix anything" to do something!
Got her in there, only to discover it was for the "real bad kids" - gangbangers, delinquents, and much worse!!
The first time she was "touched" by another student, they transfered her to another class, but with upwards of 40 per class, it happened again!
Pulled her, and home schooled her - out of there!!
Kids can be expelled for using a PEN as a weapon, if they INJURE another student, but an unopened pocket knife, in a locker, unknowingly brought, gets the same treatment!!
Where's the fair!!

 

[ChinchillaSteve]

The boyscout-incident is just silly ... the child couldn't really know his camping tool could be considered a weapon.

It surprises me how firm American schools are on this.

At my school there's no thing as zero tolerance.
It has come to the point WE (the students) have to keep things safe!

There have been incidents with knives lately (no one got hurt luckily)
but strange thing is ... the whole school knew of the upcoming fight but the police or school council didn't!

There should be a trustworthy warning system or something like that and not to depend on a big mouthed student.

*sorry for my bad english, been studying french and i'm confused*

 

[Sendra]

This is horrid. I was suspended for a month in high school for bringing a classic calligraphy pen with a metal nib. The principal decided it was knife-like enough to be used as a weapon, but the vice-principal disagreed and was able to get me from being expelled to a suspension instead. It's obvious the kid didn't know the policy, and this is seriously stretching it anyway. Hopefully the news coverage will help the kid.

 

[eroomlorac]

This particular child has received a reprieve. But there is a statement in the article that opens up another whole can of worms. Read the part that states kindergarteners and first graders will be exempt from the weapons and violence act. Is there no happy medium??? Does this mean if a first grader brings a small pocket knife to school and purposely cuts a kid that he's exempt?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33289924/ns/today-today_people/

 

[Melissa]

Read the part that states kindergarteners and first graders will be exempt from the weapons and violence act. Is there no happy medium??? Does this mean if a first grader brings a small pocket knife to school and purposely cuts a kid that he's exempt?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33289924/ns/today-today_people/

I didnt see where they would be exempt.

The seven-member board voted unanimously to reduce the punishment for kindergartners and first-graders who bring weapons to school or commit other violent offenses to a suspension ranging from three to five days.

I do feel that even this is wrong. I feel it needs to be done on a case by case basis. A few years ago there was a 6 year old child who brought a gun to school and shot another student and she died. While this is an extreme for the age group I feel these situations should be dealt with separately. Not a blanket rule for everyone. The blanket zero tolerance or any other blanket rule will over punish the minor offenders and under punish the major offenders.

When I was in middle school this one girl called me a foul name and threatened to beat my 'butt'. I told her she needed to walk away before I punched her in her face right then and there. A teacher walked by at that moment and heard me "threaten" her. They wanted to suspend me for 10 days. My parents got the sentence thrown out when they reminded them about a teacher that had thrown a text book at me, in class, in front of other students, hitting me in the back(I walked away from her because I didnt want to hear her attitude about something) not even a week before and they had done nothing. I got one day of ISS and full credit for all work missed during the day I was there.

 

[Becky]

In MI the punishment is set by the state, for the most part. There is a definition of a weapon and if the article falls in the weapons category, we must follow the listed punishment. In most cases, that is expulsion for a year.

 

[tunes]

I agree Carol - is there no middle ground? Because I do agree with Becky that there are some kids who would deliberately hurt someone at this age or a little older, but not every child is evil incarnate. Rather than having such notoriety and upheavel, wouldn't it be better to have a review board for a case by case decision?

I honestly don't know what the situation is here in South Dakota. I don't know if the rules are set by the state (I doubt it, since everything else out here is so backward) or if it's a school by school thing.

 

[Rickman]

I believe if there is INTENT for anything against school policy, enforce it, but for them to NOT take individual circumstances into account, is wrong!!
I even asked, "if she'd brought it to the Principal, and told her what happened, would she have still been expelled"? They said "YES"! She brought it!
I've heard stories about kids finding things, [guns, knives, baseball bats] on the way to school, that were actually used in the commission of a crime - guess they call the police, and the kids get a "pat on the back"! BUT THEY BROUGHT IT TO SCHOOL!!
As I said "WHERE'S THE FAIR"?

 

[mishellyshel]

i believe i heard on the news last night that they "changed" the punishment.

 

[eroomlorac]

Melissa, thanks for correcting me. I guess I didn't read the article thoroughly.

 

[Jadebf700]

The school should have taken it away, told the kid it could be dangerous, and given it back to his parents notifying them that it may fit into the school "weapons" category.

This is exactly how I feel as well. I do agree that some six year olds who are mentally not right can be capable of some horrible things. I would let the parents know that if it ends up at school again, it could lead to harsher punishment.

I can also see maybe suspending him so the other parents see some sort of reaction from the school but 45 days or whatever is waaayy too much.

 

[smhufflepuff]

I even asked, "if she'd brought it to the Principal, and told her what happened, would she have still been expelled"? They said "YES"! She brought it!

That's what I have been wondering about. I share your frustration - the policy left her in a no-win situation... there was no "right" thing to do.

I hope, despite this ridiculousness, that your daughter is doing okay now.