Your input on this male. Would you use him?

[6Dusters]

I have a real nice very large mosaic male that I bought a year ago. I took him to this spring Empress show in North Carolina and he took a second. The following was the judge's comments. Ralph Shoots was juding this event.

Real nice fur. Might be too creamy due to age. In younger days would of been nicer. ( end quote )

I've asked several people their thoughts and I'd like to hear from others on the forum who breed and are in the show arena. Thanks.
The photo's were taken outdoors.

 

[Riven]

It's really hard to tell from a picture... What I see is what looks like lazy fur on the hip and skirt, I see some blue but off coloring, both might be to needing more dust and better combing.

The real question is does he have what the girls you want to pair him with need.

 

[threewingedfury]

I think it really depends on how you're going to use him. Are you putting him in with one female, or are you using him in a colony? I always try to shoot for super strong males since they get more than one female here.

Pictures are always so hard to see quality, but I'll take a stab at what I see. His fur lays down quite a bit in this photo, I just don't see much strength in the fur. He also doesn't look very dense. This could just be due to lack in dusting or combing. If you paired him up to a complimented standard female, he may give you something nice.

How old is he btw? Whites can be really hard to keep white at an older age.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

I agree with Tiffany. He doesn't appear to have good stand up fur in the photo, but I mean if Ralph looked at him under lights, fully groomed and gave you comments then I would go with what he said. Its up to you - I would say you need a dense blue female with stand up straight fur. I would probably pair breed him for a few litters and see what you get out of him and a super female before I invested him in a line.

 

[Kansas City Chinchillas]

Did you mention how old the male is? If not, how old is he? He does not look dusted or groomed in the picture so it's hard to give an opinion.

 

[6Dusters]

This animal was born in 2006. I had just rough combed him and quickly took him outside that day to look at his color. I had not done any serious work on him at that point. I was just curious about his white color in the sun.

Thanks everyone for your input. I breed in pairs and he wouldn't have a chance to have multiple females. I simply don't have the room in this house. Our next house in the future would allow for that perhaps.

His pedigree is quite nice but limited to just sire and dam. He had not been shown by his previous owner or breeder. He was bred by his previous owner.

His weight is 872 grams. And of course if I did breed him he would be paired with a very dense clear standard female.

 

[Riven]

To have only two animals on a pedigree and have it quite nice must be one heck of a pairing...

 

[Kansas City Chinchillas]

I would go by Ralph's evaluation. A nice clear quality standard girl would be a good choice.

 

[6Dusters]

He is out of a Hummel sire and an MWIC animal. At some point Brenda bought that herd.
Thanks for the input. I might just sit back and wait for the right female or just sell him. He's very sweet.

 

[arf2184]

Whether you should breed him or not depends on what your goals are. What traits does he have that you want to reproduce? Don't just try to find a female that will (hopefully) make up for his flaws in their offspring. He needs to contribute some desired traits too. What does he have that you want and how could he improve upon your girls?

If I were considering him for breeding, here are my thoughts on him based on the information here. His size is good...a bit too big for my tastes, but I wouldn't hold that against him. His temperament sounds like a good one, which is important to me. His shoulders, while not terribly narrow, look like they could be wider...he's got a big backside which makes him have more of a triangle shape (though it could just be the angle of the pics). I aim for rectangular brick...my preference and also good for showing. His fur is just ok...lacking in strength and possibly a bit off color. I don't see the 'creamy' that was mentioned with these pics on my monitor, but that's really something I'd have to see in person...or just takes Shoots word for it. Not having seen him in his younger years, you don't know if he's always been that way, or if he changed color with age. I want my chins, whites especially, to have a very blue look. So if he was mine, while I could make good use of his size, I don't think I'd breed him.

Consider your goals and how he could help you reach them and go from there.

 

[Megan]

Here's the main thing.. We are all just people on an internet forum. We can't SEE him, FEEL his fur, or truely see his coloring. Take the judges comments (who saw him in person), and go from there. Or are you going to Daves this month? Bring him along, dust him and groom him and get him looked at by someone else. Take the 2 different opinions and see what you come up with.

With breeding in pairs.. While you're taking up valuable space, if you can find the right female ---go for it! See what happens, you can end up with some nice kits. An older chin isn't going to look as pretty when he's 4 vs 10 months, and will be down in color due to cage staining, spraying, etc.

 

[Spoof]

I'm with Alison (Arf) on this, I wouldn't use offcolor male on a female that was good enough to improve him - I'd be using her in other ways.

It's really up to what you want to do with the future generations. For me his fur is just too soft to do any good in my lines. Could spend several generations improving that alone, whereas size can come in one.

 

[Riven]

He is out of a Hummel sire and an MWIC animal.

What I'm saying is... with just two animals you know nothing else about the lines. I could get two animals that both came out of parents that were both GSC, and they could both look like they just come out of my dogs mouth. A pedigree without knowing the actual lines, is useless unless you have a nice animal.

I'm not against breeding okay animals. Even the best made pairing in the world can produce less than good animals, that doesn't mean that animal can't produce something great. I've rarely seen two animals on a pedigree and said that's a great pedigree. I have some that I could do that with, but that's only because I know those lines enough to know what is behind those animals on that pedigree.

To me it looks like his fur is very long, causing it to flop. Again without seeing him, it's impossible to tell.

What did the breeder you got him from get out of him, did they get any offspring that they showed? If so how did they do? That would tell you about what he's carrying.

 

[lilchinchilla]

I would also say go by the judges comments. The one thing I have to say though, which coincides with the judges comments somewhat, is that when chins get older, they don't always keep that nice fur they had when they were younger. I have a male for example, that at age 11 years, looks nothing like he used to.
I've had ranchers come visit who saw him in person and were surprised he was the sire to all the eb whites I have shown or had graded (or others have shown that I produced.). He is a big guy, and his fur does lay down now, but didn't used to. He has big man ****ies, and can barely fit through a jump hole without struggling with it.

He's given me a grand show champ and produced many color section champs and res. color section champs, reserve champion and champion males and females of shows, etc.. all produced by him.

But to look at him, he looks like nothing but a lump of fat weak, lay down fur. Basically what I am saying is, do you know what this boy has produced in the past, if his offspring have been shown? I think that would be key, as I would not consider what he looks like now, at his age, as what he would have been like when younger. Just as people age and their hair and body changes, etc... chins do much the same with age.
Perhaps you can go back to the person you purchased from or the breeder(s) who bred the parents and find more background info as well? Just a thought.