What's the I.Q. of a Chin...Clever Degus may just give us a hint

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borzov

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I saw this intersting article in the NY Times about studies done on Degus, which i understand to be close cousins of chins...the degus showed remarkable intelligent in creating tools (rare in the animal kingdom). my guess is that chins have the same abilities if not more so. their hands are very much like humans, with similar opposible thumbs. and watching them play hide and seek is certainly a treat for the brainy types...I dream of the day when i can tell my dog owner neighbor that my chin is smarter than his dog..

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...3EF935A15750C0A96E9C8B63&scp=1&sq=degu&st=cse

Degus are highly social, intelligent rodents native to the highlands of Chile. They adorn the openings of their burrows with piles of sticks and stones, have bubbly personalities and like to play games.

But in a laboratory setting, degus can do much more than play hide-and-seek, according to a study in the online journal Plos One (www.plosone.org). They can learn to use tools.


Specifically, degus have been trained to reach through a fence, grab hold of a tiny rake and pull their favorite food, half a peeled sunflower seed, close enough to reach with their mouths. After two months of practice, researchers say, the degus can move the rake as smoothly and efficiently as croupiers in any Las Vegas casino.

This is first time rodents have been trained to wield tools, said Atshushi Iriki, a neuroscientist, who led the experiments at the Laboratory for Symbolic Cognitive Development at the Riken Institute in Tokyo. But other species may soon join them.

While it has long been thought that tool use is a hallmark of higher intelligence, Dr. Iriki said, the brain structures that underlie such abilities may lie dormant in many animals with good hand-and-eye or paw-and-eye coordination. Training them to use tools in captivity provides insights into the plasticity of their brains, he said, and may shed light on how early humans evolved tool use in the first place.

''There's an interesting push-pull to this demonstration of the use of an artificial rake by a rodent,'' said Richard Morris, a neuroscientist and expert on animal behavior at the University of Edinburgh, who was not involved in the study. ''The push is that if rodents no less than primates can learn to use tools, interesting questions arise about the nature and components of intelligence. And the pull part is that the observation sets the stage for a new neurobiological approach to this fundamental facet of mind, of brain.''

In the wild many animals use simple tools. Chimpanzees and crows actually create them. But an underlying question is, What changes take place in an animal brain when tool use evolves?

To find out, Dr. Iriki initially conducted experiments with Japanese macaques, monkeys that do not tend to use tools in the wild. In the laboratory, he trained them to use a rake to reach out and retrieve their favorite treat, raisins. Later the animals learned to use a short rake to pull in a longer rake, which could then be used to fetch more distant raisins.

As the monkeys developed these skills, their brains showed signs of gene activity in a brain region that integrates vision and touch. The same was likely to be true of the degu, Dr. Iriki said. The rodent has superb paw-and-eye coordination and a pad on its paw that can act like a thumb.

In the experiments, six degus stood behind a fence with gaps wide enough to let their forelegs pass through but not their mouths. A rake-like tool was placed within easy reach. The animals had to grasp the rake and pull seeds in close enough to eat.

As the degus became more adept, the experimenters placed the seeds further away. The animals had to push the rake around the seed, twist it and pull.

The degus did not hesitate to use rakes of different sizes, colors and shapes. They were reluctant to use a tool that had no teeth.

Studies are under way to see if the degu's brain reorganized in response to tool use, Dr. Iriki said.

Meanwhile, the researchers have begun a new set of experiments with marmosets, a small primitive primate, to see if their brains show similar molecular and genetic changes with tool use.
 
Fascinating! Thanks for sharing. I loved watching the videos on the PLoS ONE site. I have two degus. They are very smart.

I don't know if chins would be a good candidate for that exact experiment. I'm sure they could learn to use tools, but most would much rather forget the rake and just jump over the 'fence' to get their treat...lol.
 
Fascinating! Thanks for sharing. I loved watching the videos on the PLoS ONE site. I have two degus. They are very smart.

I don't know if chins would be a good candidate for that exact experiment. I'm sure they could learn to use tools, but most would much rather forget the rake and just jump over the 'fence' to get their treat...lol.
I cant find the videos :( care to share the link lol
 
Cool. They should try to replicate this in rats next.

That said, I know my chinchillas are *way* smarter than those Degus. Any time they want a treat, they just order one of their human slaves (Me, Taller Half or Uncle Steve) to hand it to them. Using tools is all well and good, but really, training a human to do their bidding is *much* smarter. :p
 
I'm just grateful they don't take their apple sticks and stab each other (or me) when they get mad.

OMG, I can see it now! All the chinchillas in a little pueblo village turn against their owners...Viva las Chinchillas! Hahahaha. :rofl: They smell the apple wood cooking and plan for the revolt!
 
Cool. They should try to replicate this in rats next.

That said, I know my chinchillas are *way* smarter than those Degus. Any time they want a treat, they just order one of their human slaves (Me, Taller Half or Uncle Steve) to hand it to them. Using tools is all well and good, but really, training a human to do their bidding is *much* smarter. :p


Hahha!! They definitely do have human slaves to do their bidding =P
 
Trousers is such a smartie that she can make us do her bidding just by staring... she will stare at you until you turn the TV on for her, then she will run to her food dish, eat, and watch!!! She also lets you know if the programming is not to her liking by giving you a grumpy face until you change it!

Chins and degus are just amazing little creatures!!! I love mine more everyday!
 
I'm just grateful they don't take their apple sticks and stab each other (or me) when they get mad.

A few weeks ago, I was sitting right here on my computer, on this site if I remember right, and my girlfriend Brie walked in and said we have a problem.

She then handed me a piece of apple wood with a very distinct point on it, and told me that the boys were making shivs. I've been careful to stay on their good side ever since. The confiscated shiv is still on my computer desk here as a constant reminder not to piss them off. :D
 
A few weeks ago, I was sitting right here on my computer, on this site if I remember right, and my girlfriend Brie walked in and said we have a problem.

She then handed me a piece of apple wood with a very distinct point on it, and told me that the boys were making shivs. I've been careful to stay on their good side ever since. The confiscated shiv is still on my computer desk here as a constant reminder not to piss them off. :D

That is so funny. They really do make tiny- toothpick sized weapons with apple wood. You better keep the wood coming or you could be in trouble!
 
Who's in Charge?!

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing. I loved watching the videos on the PLoS ONE site. I have two degus. They are very smart.

I don't know if chins would be a good candidate for that exact experiment. I'm sure they could learn to use tools, but most would much rather forget the rake and just jump over the 'fence' to get their treat...lol.

my chins just start whining and *****in' when they want a treat. of course, I open the frig, take the raisins and give it to them. they whine, I open the frig take the raisins and give it to them. they whine, I open...wait a minute, come to think of it, I think they are conducting an experiment on me. now i know who's the ruler of the world.
 
my chins just start whining and *****in' when they want a treat. of course, I open the frig, take the raisins and give it to them. they whine, I open the frig take the raisins and give it to them. they whine, I open...wait a minute, come to think of it, I think they are conducting an experiment on me. now i know who's the ruler of the world.

Welcome to the forum! For future reference, plain cheerios, plain bite sized shredded wheat, rosehips, and plain old fashioned oats are much safer, healthier treats than raisins. Most people stay away from them because of too much sugar.
 
A few weeks ago, I was sitting right here on my computer, on this site if I remember right, and my girlfriend Brie walked in and said we have a problem.

She then handed me a piece of apple wood with a very distinct point on it, and told me that the boys were making shivs. I've been careful to stay on their good side ever since. The confiscated shiv is still on my computer desk here as a constant reminder not to piss them off. :D

Ferdinand makes little daggers also! I'm glad he isn't the only one hehe, they are super smart
 
Oh, my God, this thread reminds me of the one on Chins-n-Quills that went on and on, with more and more people providing evidence of the weapons their chins were making in an effort to take over the world!!! It was one of the funniest, most enjoyable reads ever!!!

Maybe this is the start of a new investigation...
 
Felix is DEFINITELY smarter than our dogs... Not that all dogs are thick but ours are...lol I think he is smarter than our cats too.

Very interesting article.
 
I want this thread to keep going since it is so cute! I always picture chins with their apple wood toothpicks, over a fire in the Andes mountains plotting to take over the world, one cute kit at a time....with nuts and berries scewered on the sticks! I for some reason always picture they doing that. I am such a dork.
 
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