Teeth Issues

[Miyu83]

Hi, it's been a long time since I've posted, but recently one of my chins was diagnosed with teeth 'spikes' and I want to make sure we're on the right path.

Floyd is a 9 year old pet store chin that has been part of our family since he was three months old. Recently he lost a lot of weight and began to lose hair, which is when I noticed there was a problem.

I took him to the vet 2 weeks ago and he had lost over 100g since his last vet visit a couple of years ago. The vet looked in his mouth with a probe connected to an iPad and we saw some spikes and red spots on his gum line.

He was given Meloxicam .05cc every 24 hours and TMS suspension .4cc twice a day for 10 days along with an anti fungal cream and critical care 10-15cc 2-3 times a day mixed with pedialyte.

A week later I brought him in for male issues and it turned out it was just a hair ring (he's never had an issue before). The vet didn't like that he was only eating a few pellets and no hay, so pellets were removed.

Two days later we were back for our scheduled follow up. He is now on Meloxicam .05-.1 cc every 24 hours and finished the TMS (antibiotic) .4cc twice a day. Pellets were added back, but he is not eating them. Floyd is currently eating 20-25 cc of Critical care 3 times a day and I leave extra on a plate for him to eat while I'm at work and overnight; he eats some of it. A probiotic was also recommended, but i was wondering if anyone has a recommendation.

Today, I plan to separate my chins so that I can monitor his input and output better (I've been putting this off as I hate to separate him and his cage mate of 8+ years.)

The plan is to follow up with the vet once Floyd has gained enough weight back and is 'healthy' enough for surgery. It would be wonderful if he could wear down his teeth enough to not need surgery/filing, but I'm not too hopeful at this point.

Is there any suggestions to encourage him to eat pellets and hay again? I've tried dipping his pellets and hay in critical care since he has decided to eat it willingly and becomes unhappy when I don't make enough for him. I've also purchased 'flavored' hay and alfalfa, which use to be his favorite. He has also stopped eating some of his treats that he use to love.

This morning he was up to 551g.

Thanks for reading all of this.

 

[Smidgeyy]

I'm not that knowledgeable about this since I've never dealt with it, but I imagine the teeth need filed down. They are causing pain which is resulting in him not eating. No matter what you give, the teeth will just continue to cause irritation unless they're filed down.

Again... I'm no expert, it's just a guess. I didn't see anywhere that you actually got the teeth filed so I wanted to mention it.

 

[Miyu83]

Thanks. That was what I figured, but the vet was hopeful that he would start to eat on his own since the pain medicine was increased. Hopefully, he'll gain back some weight fairly quick and can have his teeth filed as soon as possible.

 

[ticklechin]

A 551gm chin does not need to gain weight to be put under and filed, under 400gms is a issue. This chin needs to really see a vet who knows teeth-this vet obviously does not or they would know the chin will never be able to grind its own teeth down once they are overgrown and have "spikes". The chin needs to be put under, have x-rays taken, have a full mouth exam and be filed as needed. This problem may or may not come back but the sooner it is resolved the better. I would not separate him from his cage mate, there is no need at this point because he will not eat until treated, and even after you will weigh him to see what he is eating. The stress of being away from his cage mate will make matters worse. After the procedure, you will still need to feed him for up to 2 weeks before he may start eating on his own, so be prepared for that also.

 

[Miyu83]

Update: Floyd had his teeth filed a few weeks ago and after not eating well the first couple of days, he lost a lot of weight. However, he is now eating more per feeding (between 35-50 ml) than before his surgery, but is hanging just under 500g now. The vet found that at least one of his teeth have stopped growing, which was causing some of the spiking.

After a week or 2, I tried to encourage him to eat a bit of hay by putting small soft pieces of Alfalfa (Floyd's favorite) at the end of his syringe and he would grind his teeth, use his paws to pull it out of his mouth, or dribble out his CC and the piece of hay.

At his follow up appointment, he had an x-ray and on one side, the back bottom tooth has stopped growing and the corresponding tooth at the top is curving back to his gums and working it's way to his facial nerves. Even the root of this tooth is curved. The good thing is, that with the exception of the curving, his teeth are only growing one way. The vet gave me 3 options for dealing with his teeth issues.

1. File all teeth down to the gums and Floyd would be feed CC for the rest of his life along with maintenance tooth filing. (The vet made it clear that this would not be a preferred option and this one is not in the running.)

2. Try to cut the curved tooth before it starts growing into the gums and file it to the gum line. This would also require maintenance tooth filing and still a good chance that he will not eat on his own.

3. Have the tooth removed. I will have to take him to a Vet school 3 hours away (luckily I have family in the area). It will cost me at least $400 for the visit and CT Scan for them to assess him. Does not include surgery. As much as I have already spent and I don't know how much more I can spend, I think this may be his best option. He is still an active chinny, especially considering that he is 9 years old.

I guess my big question is, has anyone had a tooth removed? How did it go? Did the chin start eating again?

 

[ticklechin]

I have done selective tooth removal and it is only a short term solution-the adjacent teeth will grow towards the removed tooth causing malocclusion again and the need for those teeth to be filed. Tooth removal is serious business, especially when the root is curved, broken jaw is a very real possibility-if the procedure goes wrong the vet should be told to advise you immediatly so you can make the decision to PTS, right then. Option #2 is what I chose for a chin that had almost the same condition-his teeth for the most part were straight except one rear tooth-he had no predictable schedule for filings, sometimes its was 6 months, sometimes it was 2 years-his issues started at 4 years old, lived until 17 when the filing went wrong and he died.

 

[Miyu83]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll definitely take it into consideration. He has an appointment on 3/30 at UT Vet school for a second opinion, etc. I just hope to make the right decision for quality of life and my big goal is for him to be able to eat on his own. I'm beginning to run into difficulty with being able to feed him at least 3 times a day, well I will be soon, due to life schedule. That's a big fear of mine right now.

 

[Miyu83]

Update: Floyd has been eating a ton of food recently and his poos are perfect! He's been eating so much per feeding, that I'm afraid that it's too much, 30-60 ml per feeding 3-4 times a day. However, that is only via syringe, but I am not forcing it and will give a few minutes break to make sure he is still hungry.

Floyd had his appointment yesterday at the University of TN Vet Collage and they wanted to keep him overnight to observe him and verify that he is eating and healthily enough to be put under. He was and had his CT Scan today and a 'small' dental done. The vet said that they filed his teeth as much as they could, but were unable to get his mouth open enough to file as much as they would have liked.

I was able to talk with the vet this afternoon about everything and he said that Floyd will probably need at least monthly teeth filing for the rest of his life and his roots have begun to grow upward. I don't know how bad it is yet. I was in no shape to ask questions or really even speak at the time. I know I missed other suggestions, ect that the vet discussed as I mostly stopped absorbing information after that. The vet sounded somewhat positive, but all I could think was, 'It's malo.'

I will be picking him up late Thursday afternoon, it's the soonest I can make the trip. I plan to type all the questions I can think of so that I won't have to speak too much. Even if the Malo isn't too bad yet, I don't know how long we'll be able to afford to pay for monthly filings.

If there are any questions I should ask, I welcome the suggestions.

 

[Miyu83]

I don't know how to edit, but I forgot the most important part, is quality of life.

 

[ticklechin]

If you are going to maintain a malo chin long term-to be brutaly honest long term means only a couple of years and 1000s and 1000s of dollars, you have to be in 110%, there is no half way, its a 24/7/365 job and its exhausting mentally. There will be good days, but there will be way more bad days and during this experience you will become very bonded to the chin and he will become very bonded to you so in the end, it will be traumatic and dramatic when the chin passes, one of mine that I was extremely close to has been gone for 5 years and I still tear up and can't talk about him. I have had and treated 10 malo chins over 14 years, have done all but one treatment avaliable, I can keep them alive for years and for the most part the quality of life is good until its not, my last one passed 3 years ago and I would not even entertain the thought of going through that **** on earth again treating malo. I am being cruel in my response but I want to make sure that people who treat it know what they are up against, the emotional and financial heart break.