please help. ileius problems

[nikkin]

Hi I've read a ton of info on her and it's been very helpful I have a fewmore qquestions I apologize if they are repeats here's the situation with my boy

on Tues I noticed my chin (rescued 2 boys in Oct nno idea on history age etc)
He was not eating or drinking and doing stomach presses laying on side. We rushed him to the emergency vet. 500 bucks later they said it was an impaction on his xrays and gave him fluids and said to wait to the morn for a specialist they may have given him an antibiotic shot I was a mess and don't recall

next morn take him to specialist. No obstructionbut gassy . Started him on the reglin told gas drops and ccritical care. She told me just 5 to 10 cc a day. And didn't say anything about massage or compress so aafter reading about them on here I decided she was under qualified and took him to another vet who I like much better

this is Thursday and they redid xrays . He pooped a bunch and looked better but ccomparatively the gas in his x rays were much more even though his symptomsseemed vbetter. At this Point she said the reglin .3 cc 3 a day. Gas drops 5 times .3 and critical care were doing about 9 cc 3 or 4 times a day as well as a few massages and play time. He runs around he cleans himself and he seems much better pain wise not llaying on side but its been a week and he's not eating or drinking himself were going to the vet every other day to recheck x rays. Get sub fluids and injectable reglin.


Questions
how long should I put him through this. When is there a point where they don't come back or there intestines have been off for too long. He doesn't seem miserable anymore and I would bottle feed him indefinitely but I don'twant to bbe inhumane

Does anyone have experience with chins seeing a holistic vetfor aacupuncture or herbs?

We switched him from pet store food to oxbow 3 weeks ago but besides that I ccan't imagine what caused this
he goes on his flying saucer wheel for a min a day when he used to go for hours but him even doing it is a good sign. Sometimes he poops 5 or 8 times on the way to the vet and others none at all. Is this usually so up and down every day? The vetchecked eeverything and his only problem wwas gas In his x rays

thanks in aadvance I'm desperate and will do anything at this point we're over a grand in and I would spend it all again if it would save him

 

[Newt]

I'd keep trying with the critical care and the meds. It's only been a week, so don't give up yet.
You say he's not miserable, and is doing some of his normal activities (ie, wheeling a bit), so those are hopeful signs.

I'd up his critical care intake. Aim for around 100mls a day, spread out over 4-6 feeds.
You could add some probiotics into the mix too, which might help with his gut.

I think you can even do soft tummy massages to help him. Have you used the search function on this forum to search for bloat? There should be heaps of info.

Best of luck xxx

 

[ticklechin]

When dealing with gas, rather that 4-6 large feedings it needs to be 5ml every couple of hours until the CC is done, reason is gas takes up gut space, trying to get a large meal into a chin with gas causes more pain, that and by having food in there all the time helps with gut contractions.

I have done the holistic/acupuncture/touch therapy treatment with malo chins, did not work and the chin was not impressed.

As for how long gut issues last? In your mind it will be forever, but in reality it can take a month or more to calm down after stasis. As long as you have poo, no matter how sporatic, how little, or how strange looking it means the gut is still alive. What goes in comes out, as long as you are seeing it keep up the feeding, the meds, the exercise ( I find if you put the chin in a bath tub or shower with doors, close the door and leave it in there for 15-20 min if they can poo, they poo). I have been through many bouts of bloat and stasis with malo chins and none died from that, with diligent aggressive therapy it will turn out fine more often than not.

 

[nikkin]

That's very comforting thank you. I will try to do more feeding I just feel bad he'ssleeping and aas is he ddoesn't love being held so I wanted to balance not stressing him by grabbing him every 2 hours and while **** take his meds in the cage he has to be held down to eat. So 5 cc every feeding but 100 cc total is 25 times??

last night when I was rubbing his belly a poop with mucus came out
I'm also giving pedialite but the vet said he ddoesn't need water ssince it's in the criticalcare but sshe's been gone for 2 days so he had sub fluids mon and will go in tomorrow morn (thur) should I force syringe plain water? Also they have alwaysdrank alkalized water does anyone know Iif that could be harmful? He doesn't love the compress and belly rubs is it better to hold them and stress them but get Iin massages or do less and let them rest?

thanks again I am committed to getting him well whatever it takes

 

[nikkin]

Also does anyone know about apple cider vinegar for appetite stimulate

 

[tunes]

There shouldn't be THAT much water in the CC. It there is, then it is too watery and he's not getting enough of the food side. Either way, it isn't going to keep him hydrated. The best way to do it is to give him subcu fluids. Sometimes giving chins fluids by mouth can be an issue with an ill chin aspirating. Have your vet show you how to administer the subcu fluids. It isn't hard once you are shown how. Make sure you can practice while at the vets so you feel confident at home.

He's not going to like pretty much anything you are doing right now. He's in pain, he's miserable, and he just wants to be left alone. You need to keep in your mind that the massages and the disturbances are keeping him alive. Talk to him while you do it, make soothing sounds, but keep on doing what you are doing.

At this point I don't know if you are going to be able to get 100 mL in him if he is so full of gas. Just keep doing 5 mL every couple of hours as Dawn said. He won't be getting 100 mL but his stomach will always have food in it.

I don't think I would be worrying about appetite stimulation at this point, and introducing something new could just make a bigger mess. Stick with what you are doing for now and when he feels better, then he will start eating on his own again.

Hang in there. It's going to be a long road, but hopefully he will come out on the other side of it and get back to his normal self.

 

[nikkin]

Thank you I will he is running around now and while definitelyslower then his brother hhe'sstill active and ddoing small wall kicks I will continue what I'mdoing . He was goingevery other day for sub fluids she was doing 5 cc but last oone was mon and she's gone until tomorrow thur. He has an appt for tomorrow morn at 8am but in the meantime will Pedialyte be enough or how sshould I hydrate him. I asked the vet will not give me sub fluids at home she says if you do it wrong it can be bad and she doesn'tcharge for re checks she just charges for the fluids I ddon't think she is doing it for the money I think she's concerned with stressing him if I do II at home

 

[ticklechin]

I would be lucky to get 40ml into a bloat/stasis chin, they just won't do it. As far as water goes, bloat/stasis chins need extra during this time-the body during stasis will rob the water from the intestinal tract, this can lead to impaction since what food bolus in in there will be dried out and can't pass. I do sub Q, I won't syringe feed water, there is TOO BIG of chance of the chin aspirating it since it may think its drowning and panic.

 

[nikkin]

Does that include pedialyte? He seems to take it from the syringe I don't force him like the cc

 

[ticklechin]

I personally keep it very simple when I deal with a bloat/stasis chin, they get critical care and water, nothing else besides their meds. I don't know or want to find out by trying what pedialyte will do for the gut bacteria who are out of whack.

 

[nikkin]

Ok thanks I'm going to the vet now and will ask again about the sub fluids to take home

 

[nikkin]

Just got back from vet. They redid x rays. She said only about 10% improvement in gas and his I test intestines were not as swollen. She gave him 7 cc of sub fluids and she did show us and give us the needles and bag.of fluids to do at home. She said 7 cc 2 times a day. And to up the symethicone to 4 cc 5 times a day and to keep doing the reglin. She said she's seen it take 2 months sometimes I but he is running and looking very active when he'sout of his cage . Still sleepy when he is in the cage though. It's Been about 10 days no eating or drinking on his own but he willingly takes it from the syringe and we're able to get about 7 or 8 cc in him every few hours. Averaging to 35 or 40 cc a day

anything I am missing or any more advice from you experience chin owners?

 

[ticklechin]

Simethicone I give a full dropper every 2-3 hours, can't overdose it and the chin during a time of stress thinks they are getting a treat, at least the ones I had. You are doing everything you can and you are doing it right, its just a waiting game now, the vet is right in extreme cases it can take a LONG time.

 

[nikkin]

Yes he seems to really like that more then even the critical care. He seems so ok out of his cage but when he's there he just lays in his house :*( I'm worried about hurting him when I give the sub fluids I'm not so good with m needles any advice? I'm also going to move his cage to a spare room as we have A LOT of other animals big dogs and I think the noise of them running and playing isn't so great for him

the other concern is he has a cage mate another boy and they seem really close always cuddling and cleaning each other. But the sick one does have missing hair on both sides. It's been that way since before we rescued him. I do see the other one chewing on him. But they both seem to chew on each other to clean and he is the only one missing hair. Would it be more stressful to separate them? When he returns from the vet they run up to each other and cuddle so I feel they are close. But I don't want him to be stressed from the possible hair bitting

 

[nikkin]

He just ran around for 20 min with good energy and then went on his side I put him in the cage and he still.is laying on his side pressed against the cage. His cage mate lays on his side after running to but not so drastically or for as long. Do u think this is pain related? Or just normal being tired? I live in vegas and it was in the 100s today but I keep the house around 74 and bump it down when they are playing is that a normal behavior or does it always mean overheating even in a healthychin

 

[ticklechin]

I have not had one lay on its side in pain, they scrunch up into a ball. Laying on the side is usually when a chin in very comfortable in its environment, since they are prey animals it would be hard for them to scram from that position. Passing out on the side after play usually means he wore himself out. I would not separate the chins, even if there is chewing.

 

[nikkin]

I bought a new simethicon they didnt havw the same brand and it is is now pink and has simethicon emulsion as well is that ok? When we give him droppers of liquid meds he makes a chewing sound and each day I swear it gets louder does your chins do that? Will his teeth be ok without chewing he's going on 2 weeks no food or water on his own we did the 7 cc of fluids and it was traumatic more so for me but afterwards he seems to be panting is this a stress response? Would he be ok with it just once a day his skin is getting all red and Idk if I can handle it 2x a day again. I still haven't seen him leave more then a poop or 2 in about 3 days and he seems more lethargic I wish I knew more to do for this poor guy

 

[ticklechin]

Are you in a position to have the vet do the sub Q? If that is not possible maybe make a slurry of the CC, meaning really runny and give him a couple of feedings of that, or mix the water with the simethicone and try that-what you want is to have him drink it from the syringe rather than force him to drink it. Is the chin on pain meds such as metecam? If not ask the vet for something for pain, shock can come on very fast if the pain becomes intense and it can be fatal.

 

[nikkin]

He was on pain. Meds but he doesn't seem pained. He doesn't do belly presses anymore he really seems fine his only symptoms is not eating drinking and lethargic. But he jumps of walls takes tons of dust baths and even is on his whell occasionally so we're trying to avoid pain meds cause of appetite suppressant I was taking him every other day to vet for fluids and it became a bit much and it's hot out so I thought it was more stressful to box him and take him out in the heat

did you know about that symethicone emulsion?

 

[nikkin]

And I meant we did 7 cc of sub q fluids on our own we didn't try to make Him drink it