Pancake after dental appt-not eating or sleeping

[Pokei]

Hi,

I took Pancake to another vet recommended by my vet to see if there is anything that can be done. They found some points and got rid of them by dental burr or drill. They also found his right teeth are a different colour than the left ones. No abcess, but possible infection at the roots? Pancake was eating pellets and hay at the vet before I left, no issues. I went home with some antibiotics and metacam.

Overnight, he was eating very little and hardly sleeping, just pacing around the cage. I tried giving him CC and he didn't take to that. I gave him the perscribed dose of antibiotic (which he pretty much rejected) and metacam this morning as instructed by the vet. I tried to give him CC and lifeline but after a couple of small bites he rejected that.

I've called the referred vet and have just given another dose of metacam (0.15mL), which he rejects now....I'm to call the referred vet after work for an update on Pancake. I'm toying with the idea if the second dose doesn't work to send him to my regular vet or emerg vet to get fluids in him.

Anyhow, any ideas on getting a chin to eat CC and antibiotics? I've tried the burrito thing and feeding with syringe and well, he doesn't swallow. I'm getting a little worried as he hasn't had sufficient food now.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Dustbunnies]

Fluids can be a life saver. He doesn't sound well.

 

[ticklechin]

How long has it been since he has eaten a full daily amount of food?


I have had 100s of filings done, literally, and never came across your symptoms as a result of a filing, they really bother my because it sounds like he may be in stasis with the pacing and not sleeping, I assume he looks like he is wired? Those are classic symptoms of stasis before lethargy. Usually after a filing the chin is fine or p.oed and they may hide and be sleepy.

He really needs to go back to the vet and check for GI motility and just a over all look at health, since chins hide illness well, its a better safe than sorry approach when dealing with dental chins.

 

[Pokei]

It's been since yesterday before we left for the vet (morning). He's eaten after the procedure hay and pellets, but then the car ride home is where I noticed he was getting funky, not resting and pacing around and didn't want any treats, hay or pellets. It was a long ride home with traffic, like 2.5 hours instead of 45mins. i did have AC so no over heating.

I am worried about gut stasis. I've just tried feeding him some CC and he's taken a few nibbles. The good part is, after a little coaxing he was drinking water for about 3mins.

Oh he was acting wired, not settling down, but now he's in one spot resting with eyes almost closed. Perhaps I should stop going over and checking him!

Spoke with the vet and he's wanting an update in a couple of hours and if need be, I'll travel to guelph again tonight if Pancake does not improve at that time. He tells me at this point I should not worry about gut stasis, but just observe him.

 

[ticklechin]

Is he pooing? If so how much and what do they look like? The wired chin really does bother me alot.

When you get him up again, can you hold his tummy to your ear in a quiet room and listen? You wan to hear quiet gurgling-sort of like water through a pipe noise, you don't want silence or snap and pop noises.

 

[Pokei]

He pooed maybe 10 poos since he came home last night. I just held his stomach to my ear and I couldn't hear anything except heartbeat and wimpers. To check I held one of my other chins to my ear and I couldn't hear anything. I guess my ears are not that sensitive.

 

[ticklechin]

Only 10 poo, chin not being able to be fed and has not eaten, chin acting wired a pacing the cage and he wimpers when touched on the tummy does send alarm bells to me with what I am reading here. If this was my chin I would call the vet, tell him you hear no gut noises (you need to listen for a min or so and listen for anything gurgling quietly) tell him the chin has only had 10 poo since his vet visit, tell him he is acting wired and out of the norm, tell him he wimpers when you tough his tummy and you are woried about stasis and should the chin have motility drugs due to the non-production of poo? This is not a normal reaction after a filing, something is wrong.

 

[Pokei]

You are totally validating what I'm worried about here. It's been 5 hours since his last dose of metacam and he's still not Pancake and in pain. Right now he's not pacing thankfully and has settled down in one spot, eyes closed. On a slight victory, he just ate 1/4 teaspoon of CC watered down just now. It took him a while and some coaxing. That's still not enough for a 690g chin for sure.

What is the name of a motility drug that's used? For my knowledge when I'm talking to the vet.

 

[ticklechin]

You are totally validating what I'm worried about here. It's been 5 hours since his last dose of metacam and he's still not Pancake and in pain. Right now he's not pacing thankfully and has settled down in one spot, eyes closed. On a slight victory, he just ate 1/4 teaspoon of CC watered down just now. It took him a while and some coaxing. That's still not enough for a 690g chin for sure.

What is the name of a motility drug that's used? For my knowledge when I'm talking to the vet.

In Canada there is only one, reglan. Keep a close eye for any poo right now and also watch for any stretching, twisting on the side or the chin rubbing its stomach on the ground, here is a video of my chin who had bloat-the
symtoms and the stretching motions are also found in stasis-if you see anything like the strage motions this chin is doing coupled with no poo you have a medical emergency of stasis for sure.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc4GdZoi3GU

 

[Pokei]

Hmmm I just noticed my reply got lost somehow....

Thankfully Pancake is not moving like he's bloated, he's moving normally abeit slower. I just weighed him and he's 672g, dropped from 690g yesterday.

Another small victory, he just ate a cheerio, a bit of camomile, 1/8 teaspoon of really diluted CC and lifeline and had some water.

Still no poo seen....

 

[Pokei]

Am off to the vet, he's going to give an injectable pain med

 

[Anna]

In regards to chinnies not eat cc very easily, my guys, especially Ralphy won't eat it without a fight. You just need to be patient and maybe add a small but of honey on the nozzle of the syringe or Dyne, if you have it. If he is anything like Ralphy, Pancake may start licking his lips and swallowing the CC if you hold him more upright after putting some in his mouth. Ralphy will sit there with the CC in his mouth until I move him a bit. Then he will swallow it. Bit by bit he will eat more and more in a sitting, he may just be stubborn. Best of luck to you and Pancake!

 

[Pokei]

I'm back from the vet. Pancake does not have stasis (phew!) and he pooped at the vet many times He was given more pain med so he can sleep and relax..it seems like Pancake, unlike most chins, can't tolerate pain much hence the funky activity.

The vet thinks that after the extra pain meds he'll be ok as long as he improves tomorrow.

I'll try your tactic of feeding Anna. It took me an hour this morning to get metacam and the antibiotic in somewhat....then hardly any luck with the critical care.

Thanks guys for the advice and thanks very much Dawn for your input. I learned a lot about what to look for re: stasis.

You'll hear from me again on this thread if Pancake is not doing well.

 

[ticklechin]

How is he today? I am still very concerned about him regardless what the vet says. Has he got a full ration of food in him yet? Like 45-60ml at least?

 

[mishellyshel]

im with dawn, you need to get more food into him. also did the vet prescribe the reglan?

often with handfeeding it helps facillitate the food thru the system. in addition, i recommend baby gas drops in the beginning of hand feeding because often they suck in some air from the syringe.

i had the hardest time with handfeeding.so much so, that one of the members here came to my home to show me the proper way. now my chin is so used to it, he just sits on my lap, puts his little paw on my finger & eats away. no towel or anything. i hardly have to restrain it. it takes a lot of patience and practice. even if you have to take him out every hour to try & get him to eat, it is very important that he eats. Richie used to eat between 80 - 140 cc's a day in the beginning. that was spread out between 3 feedings. once he has a full belly he will start to feel better.

 

[Pokei]

Hey guys,

Man, I don't know what to think anymore. I thought ok he's eating CC and pooping and now I think it's not good enough....

Ok, this morning I fed him 5 mL of CC and lifeline after the antibiotics and metacam. It was messy and time consuming and yes I didn't know if I was doing it the right way. I was using the syringe and putting it on other side of his incisors and shotting in a little at a time sideways, not down the throat. Some he chewed, some he made sure came out. It was a two person job, my bf holding and me doing the syringe. When I tried last night it was just me, and it went everywhere. Pancake seemed exhasted and he slept in a corner on my bed for a couple of hours before I attempted again. I don't think i got much in then. He used to be able to take CC off of a spoon no issue, no mess.

I just fed him another ~3mL (5mL then really watered down with lots left) CC. He was poking into the hay and eating some. But to answer, no not the full 45-60mL....

As for how he is, he's still slow moving, but will hop around and has bright eyes.

I am actually debating whether or not to have him admitted to the vet for overnight care. I asked the vet last night and he thinks that might be overkill, but I asked him about it anyhow.

No he did not perscribe reglan because we saw poops in the carrier and he felt his tummy.

Regarding baby gas drops, what kind do you use? I'll hunt some down after work.

 

[Pokei]

I just gave him 2 more CC, and weighed him. He was 690g before procedure, 672g last night and 679g right now.

Does anyone have a video on syringe feeding? I'll try and give him at least 30mL of CC tonight, spread out. I'll also call the vet and let him know what is going on.

 

[ticklechin]

I have several hand feeding videos but they are all on tame chins who like to be hand fed. If you really would like a video on hand feeding a spazzy chin I could hand feed Lucifer who has never been hand fed as far as I know and video that for you if you think it will help.

 

[Essentia]

I could also do a video of hand feeding. I have a chin who is crazy spastic. I've never hand fed him, and he will probably hate me for a day, but if you need it I'll take the video.

 

[Pokei]

That would be awesome if either or both of you could do a video. I really appreciate all the help