Not your average stasis/bloat questions

[Brittany]

As some of you know Lady's been dealing with GI issues since late October. She's had several xrays, oral exams. There are no teeth issues or obstructions. This weekend she developed a moderate case of bloat and she is in stasis. She IS pooping but she only makes around 30-40 good poops between the hours of 5-9pm. When I wake up in the morning I find a few tiny constipated droppings. She doesn't poop all day until about 5pm again.

I've got a pretty good handle on treatment (heat packs, tummy rubs, simethicone, gut motility drugs, hand feeding) but I do have a few questions. The vet just added sub-q fluids to the regiment. He wants me to start out with 10ml twice daily. My question is how can I restrain her and administer the sub-q's myself? I can get friends to come help if necessary, but I'd like to do it myself if at all possible. The technique he taught me was to pinch the skin just below the shoulder blades and insert the needle at a 45 degree angle. However, I need one hand to pinch the skin, and the other to work the syringe. It's impossible to do while trying to keep her from wiggling. Is there a better way?

Another question, she's in a lot of pain and the vet gave her an injection of buprenex. He's never given oral buprenex to a chinchilla before and he wanted to consult another vet with some questions before sending me home with it orally. Have any of you given oral buprenex? Do you have a vet he could consult? He was going to do some research and get back to me, but I thought I'd help out if I can. I don't know why he didn't give me the injectable form since I'm going to be doing sub-q's but I'm guessing it has something to do with liability and the fact that it's a narcotic?

Final question(s). Our main concern is getting Lady better, but we were starting to talk about the future in case this happens again. I switched Lady to Mazuri from Oxbow about 2 months ago because she doesn't like the new formula. Could the Mazuri be causing this? I've only heard of it giving chins soft poop, never constipation/bloat. She's been having boughts of constipation since before I switched her feed, it's just never been this bad. Is it possible that her gut started slowing down when she initially stopped eating the Oxbow, and it's just taken it this long to get this bad? The vet also mentioned the idea of chronic bloat. He said he's seen some chins who will eat improperly (usually due to malo) and they gulp in air while they eat giving them constant bloat issues. Has anyone heard of this? If so how do you treat it? She has no elongation, no spurs, and no other symptoms of teeth issues, so I don't know how we'd fix this?

Thanks for any advice!

 

[Sandi]

Oh gosh Brittany, I'm sorry Lady is still going through issues . I wish I could help. I'll keep Lady in my thoughts.

 

[StevieP]

See image below:

SC= Subcutaneous
IV= Intravenous

 

[Brittany]

Thanks, so if I'm reading the chart right chinchillas don't get buprenex orally, only through sub-q's or IV?

We're going to need to figure out how to get her a few more doses then. She's literally done nothing but sit and eat hay in the 3 hours since we've been home. It must be a strong drug.

EDIT: the vet was hoping to find a way for me to give it to her at home since he's an hour away and it isn't practical for me to drive out there every day for her to get an injection.

 

[EMSChins]

Hi Brittany - I am so sorry about Lady!

As far as the Buprenex goes, it can only be given IV or SQ as you have already seen. I have used it several times with Sugar so it isn't a matter of not being able to prescribe it since it is a narcotic. It is easier to administer than the SQ fluid.

Are you giving the SQ fluids with a needle and syringe or with a butterfly and tubing extension? I have found it much easier to use the butterfly than a needle and it is more comfortable for the animal. Unfortunately I always had to have a 2nd pair of hands to hold the chinchilla when administering the fluids.

Dawn has done so much of this she may have a suggestion on how to do it with only one set of hands???

 

[Stackie]

I have given buprenex orally. Dr. Melody Candler-Catt at Vincennes Veterinary Clinic is the one that prescribed it for Diesel when he has his bad bumblefoot flare up.

The only problem with buprenex is it can really slow down the GI system..so if you are already dealing with GI problems, it could pose some troubles. Diesel's appetite really decreased and his poops got really small on the buprenex.

 

[EMSChins]

I know it can be absorbed through the buccal membranes and is given this way sometimes in cats (I would think that it would be hard to give to chinchillas this way)but I thought it wasn't supposed to be swallowed?

 

[Brittany]

As far as the Buprenex goes, it can only be given IV or SQ as you have already seen. I have used it several times with Sugar so it isn't a matter of not being able to prescribe it since it is a narcotic. It is easier to administer than the SQ fluid.

Are you giving the SQ fluids with a needle and syringe or with a butterfly and tubing extension?

Alright, I'll be giving him a call to see if I can get the buprenex to administer at home. She ate two handfuls of hay last night which she hasn't done in months, so I know the buprenex helped. This morning there was more poop in her cage, still constipated, but bigger then it has been. I think we're on the right track, although I know these things take time.

 

[Stackie]

Diesel was given the buprenorphine orally. I'm pretty sure it's the same as buprenex? Buprenorphine is in tablet form, so obviously it was compounded into a liquid for Diesel.

 

[Brittany]

Diesel was given the buprenorphine orally. I'm pretty sure it's the same as buprenex? Buprenorphine is in tablet form, so obviously it was compounded into a liquid for Diesel.

Did Dr. Lennox do that for you?

 

[ticklechin]

I used buprenex orally and sub-Q and to be frankly honest it sucked when I used in recently-the chin was more miserable with it than without-he was nauseated and groggy to the point I stopped, I find that the max dosage of metecam and tramadol works best for chinchilla pain control with the least side effects, if pain control is long term add pepcid to prevent ulcers of the digestive tract.

The chin needs a ultrasound of the digestive tract looked at by a expert to determine the integrity of the digestive tracts peristalsis, chronic issues have been found in chinchillas where the peristalsis is chronically slow, long term use of motility drugs and pain managment is about the only treatment but there are issues with that also.

 

[Stackie]

Did Dr. Lennox do that for you?

No, it was Dr. Melody Candler-Catt @ Vincennes Veterinary Clinic. I have also had it prescribed from Dr. Kilbane @ Epperson Veterinary Clinic.

It did cause a lack in appetite and small poops in both of the chins, though...so I would be somewhat wary of using it with Lady since she already has these problems. I'd be worried it might make it worse. =/

 

[Brittany]

I used buprenex orally and sub-Q and to be frankly honest it sucked when I used in recently-the chin was more miserable with it than without-he was nauseated and groggy to the point I stopped, I find that the max dosage of metecam and tramadol works best for chinchilla pain control with the least side effects, if pain control is long term add pepcid to prevent ulcers of the digestive tract.

The chin needs a ultrasound of the digestive tract looked at by a expert to determine the integrity of the digestive tracts peristalsis, chronic issues have been found in chinchillas where the peristalsis is chronically slow, long term use of motility drugs and pain managment is about the only treatment but there are issues with that also.

No, it was Dr. Melody Candler-Catt @ Vincennes Veterinary Clinic. I have also had it prescribed from Dr. Kilbane @ Epperson Veterinary Clinic.

It did cause a lack in appetite and small poops in both of the chins, though...so I would be somewhat wary of using it with Lady since she already has these problems. I'd be worried it might make it worse. =/

Ok thanks for the info.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

I can add about giving SQ fluids by yourself. I've been doing it twice a day for the last 2 weeks or so on my old man chin. I got a 35 cc syringe (sterile) and hooked up a 22 or 20 gauge needle. I sat indian style and wedged his head under my bent knee so that he thought he might escape that way but couldn't. Then while he could see freedom I would give him the SQ fluids. It was difficult but I managed to get between 10-20 ccs in him each time. More recently he has been getting really sick of it - so I've just been squeezing (in the gentlest sense of the term) him between my leg and stomach, holding his ear to keep him from running away and giving him the fluids that way. The syringe makes it much faster than waiting for the fluids to just drip in him. Just don't squirt it too fast as the feeling bothers them.


Only given buprenorphine SQ - and in a rabbit. Had no problems with her, it really helped her through her last days with osteosarcoma.

 

[EMSChins]

I may not have been clear with the butterfly and extension set - you do still use a syringe to push the fluid. You draw up what you need out of the bag of solution with a needle. Then change the needle to a butterfly and flush the tubing, insert the butterfly between the shoulder blades and slowly push the fluid, it isn't used as an IV drip. You need to use a fresh sterile butterfly each time. It is just that the butterfly is more comfortable for the chin if they squirm and generally a smaller guage needle, it is also easier to hold in place.

Also when Sugar was on Buprenex it was for a max of 2 days, twice a day. Then he was switched to SQ Metacam. I noticed drowsiness with it but not to the point that I thought it was a bad thing.

 

[Brittany]

Alicyn- Thanks for the tip, I'll try it tonight.

I have given buprenex orally. Dr. Melody Candler-Catt at Vincennes Veterinary Clinic is the one that prescribed it for Diesel when he has his bad bumblefoot flare up.

The only problem with buprenex is it can really slow down the GI system..so if you are already dealing with GI problems, it could pose some troubles. Diesel's appetite really decreased and his poops got really small on the buprenex.

I completely missed this post, sorry to make you repeat yourself I'm not going to go with the oral drug seeing as it's been known to cause digestive issues. I don't want to make her worse.

I may not have been clear with the butterfly and extension set - you do still use a syringe to push the fluid. You draw up what you need out of the bag of solution with a needle. Then change the needle to a butterfly and flush the tubing, insert the butterfly between the shoulder blades and slowly push the fluid, it isn't used as an IV drip. You need to use a fresh sterile butterfly each time. It is just that the butterfly is more comfortable for the chin if they squirm and generally a smaller guage needle, it is also easier to hold in place.

Also when Sugar was on Buprenex it was for a max of 2 days, twice a day. Then he was switched to SQ Metacam. I noticed drowsiness with it but not to the point that I thought it was a bad thing.

That's the setup that I have, only it's not a butterfly, but a regular needle that I'm using. I can see about getting butterfly needles instead. So far she's done well with the one injection of Buprenex. I moved her to a smaller cage because I didn't know the affect it would have on her, and I didn't want her falling and getting hurt. So far I've seen increased appetite and no drowsiness. I'm sure it's out of her system by now, so I'm curious to see how she does today. I also want to see if I can get her another dose or two. We'll see where we are in a few days after all the medications have been in her system for awhile.

Juanita- this is Dr. Levitas that I mentioned in that PM a few days ago. I think he's a keeper, and definitely worth you trying if you're looking for someone local.

 

[EMSChins]

Thanks Brittany - I will look him up and possibly use him for something non-urgent just to get a feel for him. Did you like him better than Dr. Jeff over in Blue Ash?

 

[Brittany]

I like him a lot better then any of the vets I've seen in Ohio. He reminds me of my old vet in Illinois who I miss terribly. He's very thorough with his exams, he's willing to discuss multiple treatment options, he's great at explaining things and educating me. I've only seen him twice, but so far everything he's suggested has been in line with what is discussed on this forum. The other vets at the practice don't really know chins, but were able to get me started on medications while he was out of town. The one vet was pushing me to give her lettuce (at this point I'm used to some vets just not understanding). In general the clinic has good hours, M-F 7am-7pm and extended hours on Saturdays.

 

[EMSChins]

How are his prices for exams, medications, Sat hours??? I don't need exact prices just reasonable or unreasonable in your opinion?

 

[Brittany]

http://www.ahomls.com/

My mistake M-F 7:30am- 7:00pm, Saturdays 8:00am- 2:00pm.

Xrays were about $50 each, a large bottle of cisipride was $9, I believe the exam was somwhere in the $40's. They were closed when I left yesterday, so they're mailing me my bill. Not sure what the sub-q's and buprenex will cost.