New drooling down chest

[MinchiBaby]

Hello! My chinchilla Minchi, 6 years old, has new drooling down her chest (as in within the past few hours, she's never had a drooling or teeth issue ever), but she is otherwise extremely happy (jumped up to greet me excitedly, as usual), lets me pet her, and is eating and drinking as usual as well. She's a high energy girl and is still running around/on her wheel as usual. I wanted to see if she could eat so I gave her a small piece of her favorite treat that she never turns down, an oxbow digestive support cookie, which is an EXTREMELY dense hard cookie to chew. She ate it with enthusiasm but pawed at her mouth a little bit and continued drooling. I gave her a second piece to watch her chew again and she ate it normally, she did swallow what she chewed. Regardless, I'm going to take her to the vet but they were all closed by the time I saw the drooling, so I'll have to call tomorrow. Unfortunately, this may be due to her absolute refusal to eat hay. That issue started last year or so, she suddenly refuses to touch timothy hay like it's offensive to her, so I offered other kinds of hay which worked for a little bit. Currently I'm giving her a blend of hay that she now also refuses to eat. It's mostly orchard grass with bits of meadow, and even fewer bits of alfalfa and oat hay sprinkled in (the oat hay specifically to work her molars down) all oxbow brand. I tried small pet select and same issue, doesn't want hay. She will literally only eat pellets, which are also oxbow brand. If i take away/limit pellets she'll eat the bare minimum hay to survive, to the point where she will definitely lose weight. She gets extremely minimal treats, less than once a week. So what I want to know is, how can I get her to eat hay so this never happens again (hopefully?), did her refusal to eat hay possibly cause this, and is there anything I can do to help her in the meantime? I have critical care on the ready (I always have a fresh, in date bag for emergencies) in case she is unable to eat, but so far she is doing well on her own keeping up her pellet intake.

 

[Amethyst]

You say she has never had teeth issues ever, so when was her last dental exam? Unfortunately chins are good at hiding issues so you may not notice until it's gotten so bad they can't hide it. Even if she was seen a year ago when she stopped eating hay, it may not have been that bad for the vet to see any issues at that time but has gotten worse since. If you haven't taken her in for a oral exam I would start there, just to rule out any dental or mouth issues (teeth, roots, sores, etc). It can happen that a tooth can break, something can get caught in their teeth, teeth can overgrow, as well as they can get tumors, sores, and abscesses in the mouth, which can all cause drooling. In some cases overgrown molars can even curl inward trapping the tongue which can allow them to eat hay and cookies just fine but unable to properly grind hay so they simply don't bother trying. Although good quality pellets do contain all the nutrients a chin needs it also takes less time to chew then hay to get the same amount out if it (they get more nutrients in scoop of pellets then they get from a whole pile of hay).

Just to be clear, pellets should not be withheld or restricted too much for more then a few days, unless instructed by your vet. At most you can normally go down to about 30-40g a day, which is the amount most chins normally eat and need per day to get enough nutrients even if given unlimited. If that still isn't working or the chin is losing weight then you may need to just go back to unlimited pellets and just take the chin in for regular dental exams (yearly if no issues) to make sure the teeth aren't becoming overgrown and do tooth filing as needed.

There are some different tricks you can try with the hay, if you haven't already. One is try different ways of giving it, for example rather then just putting it in a hay holder which some chins get bored with, you can try putting small amounts of it in bowls, pots, and chews with holes so she has to try look around for it a bit and pull it out. Put small amounts at a time not full holders worth and also don't change the hay unless soiled or old, sometimes changing it too often can cause picky eating. You can also try things like hay cubes and those hay pucks (like oxbow hay stacks) in addition to the loose hay so it's something different then just plain loose hay. I also know some had have luck with doing hay mixes, even mixes with some treats ( Organic Timothy Hay for rabbits, chinchillas, guinea pigs for example), and I personally store some of my hay in a bin with alfalfa, so it gets the smell of the alfalfa but doesn't contain alfalfa. Chins can also be picky on what hay brand they like, some like the expensive online hay vendor hays, other actually prefer the "cheaper" hay like Kaytee hay, and everything in between. I also know some have had back luck with online hay vendor orders and got bad batches (there were complains with small pets select last year for example), or simply had a chin that hates it even if it is good and smells wonderful.

 

[MinchiBaby]

You say she has never had teeth issues ever, so when was her last dental exam? Unfortunately chins are good at hiding issues so you may not notice until it's gotten so bad they can't hide it. Even if she was seen a year ago when she stopped eating hay, it may not have been that bad for the vet to see any issues at that time but has gotten worse since. If you haven't taken her in for a oral exam I would start there, just to rule out any dental or mouth issues (teeth, roots, sores, etc). It can happen that a tooth can break, something can get caught in their teeth, teeth can overgrow, as well as they can get tumors, sores, and abscesses in the mouth, which can all cause drooling. In some cases overgrown molars can even curl inward trapping the tongue which can allow them to eat hay and cookies just fine but unable to properly grind hay so they simply don't bother trying. Although good quality pellets do contain all the nutrients a chin needs it also takes less time to chew then hay to get the same amount out if it (they get more nutrients in scoop of pellets then they get from a whole pile of hay).

Just to be clear, pellets should not be withheld or restricted too much for more then a few days, unless instructed by your vet. At most you can normally go down to about 30-40g a day, which is the amount most chins normally eat and need per day to get enough nutrients even if given unlimited. If that still isn't working or the chin is losing weight then you may need to just go back to unlimited pellets and just take the chin in for regular dental exams (yearly if no issues) to make sure the teeth aren't becoming overgrown and do tooth filing as needed.

There are some different tricks you can try with the hay, if you haven't already. One is try different ways of giving it, for example rather then just putting it in a hay holder which some chins get bored with, you can try putting small amounts of it in bowls, pots, and chews with holes so she has to try look around for it a bit and pull it out. Put small amounts at a time not full holders worth and also don't change the hay unless soiled or old, sometimes changing it too often can cause picky eating. You can also try things like hay cubes and those hay pucks (like oxbow hay stacks) in addition to the loose hay so it's something different then just plain loose hay. I also know some had have luck with doing hay mixes, even mixes with some treats ( Organic Timothy Hay for rabbits, chinchillas, guinea pigs for example), and I personally store some of my hay in a bin with alfalfa, so it gets the smell of the alfalfa but doesn't contain alfalfa. Chins can also be picky on what hay brand they like, some like the expensive online hay vendor hays, other actually prefer the "cheaper" hay like Kaytee hay, and everything in between. I also know some have had back luck with online hay vendor orders and got bad batches (there were complains with small pets select last year for example), or simply had a chin that hates it even if it is good and smells wonderful.

A yearly exam sounds like a great idea considering her current hate for hay, I'll try to find a very good vet in my area to follow up with her. I have a feeling it's an issue like a bone spur, mouth sore, etc. that hopefully won't be too much trouble to treat.

As for the pellet restriction, yeah I tried only for a few days separate times, one time I took them away completely and she ate more hay but not enough to keep her weight up, same when the pellets were restricted to 2 table spoons. She lost a little weight and went back up to her full weight when she was put back on unlimited pellets. She is just so so picky and would apparently rather starve than eat hay. She really liked the small pet select hay cubes which I currently give her "unlimited" but she hardly touches those anymore either. She seemingly has a love for alfalfa if anything but I think she's given up on that too.

She did like the oxbow botanical blend for a short while and got sick of that too. At this point I'm willing to do anything to make her eat hay. I'm not a fan of kaytee hay (I had guinea pigs in the past and never liked the brand) but I'll try it to see if she'll eat. She doesn't like being handled and I know a vet visit will really stress her out so anything to try to avoid that is worth it.

 

[MinchiBaby]

I just checked on her, her chest is dry now but the problem seems to be on the left side of her mouth where it was still wet and drooly. The right side is nearly dry. She's pawing at her mouth but otherwise again is her normal self, even happy to accept chin scratches. I just tried again to offer some oxbow botanical hay and small pet select timothy hay I had on hand and she seemed mildly interested! Better than her running away from it as usual lol.

 

[MinchiBaby]

Update, Minchi saw the vet today, she had a point on the left side which was successfully taken care of. She had x-rays done and unfortunately it is a case of malo, with elongated roots. She was sent home with pain medication. Given her severe stress reaction to being at the vet/picked up, I don't think she can be put through another trimming. She became catatonic and started breathing heavily just from being handled at the vet. It's a known reaction she has and they were afraid of essentially giving her a heart attack. It's likely the next time she shows symptoms like this (the tooth trimming probably helped for now) she will likely need to be euthanized. I am completely devastated.

 

[Lissy]

They can't give her anesthesia when they handle her? I'd personally be horrified if I had to experience that tooth treatment and be aware.

 

[MinchiBaby]

They can't give her anesthesia when they handle her? I'd personally be horrified if I had to experience that tooth treatment and be aware.

She has a history if having that reaction to being picked up/restrained, even by me who she super trusts and loves. They think it may be some kind of syncope response, and due to the heavy breathing it causes they are afraid that she may not survive being given anesthesia. They are an experienced vet and said they had never seen anything like it before and are unsure how to proceed. Though she did do better with LESS restraint - instead of burritoing her they held her a little looser for the tooth trim and she took it much much better. They also did get some blood work on her to check her organs including her heart to see if there's any explanation there for her response, but they said her heart sounded good (had two vets listen to be sure because of her reaction) and isn't likely to be causing any issues.

Poor little thing, all of this is why I have to decide if it's even good for her to be put through all of that again. She was horrified even being put in the car for the half hour drive.

 

[Lissy]

I know bunnies can have that reaction when overly scared and can have little bunny heart attacks. The more I read, the more it seems that none of them like being held. Maybe the vet can give you something to give her before you leave the house so she'll be ok during the car ride and then is basically prepped for them during any other procedures???

 

[Lissy]

Also, what did you use to transport her to the vet?

 

[MinchiBaby]

Also, what did you use to transport her to the vet?

Petmate compass pet carrier, she absolutely hates being confined so she hates that carrier too lol. I put a little fleece pad I made at the bottom. She lives in a FN double unit all to herself so that may be part of it, but I think she has just always hated confinement of any kind.

I know bunnies can have that reaction when overly scared and can have little bunny heart attacks. The more I read, the more it seems that none of them like being held. Maybe the vet can give you something to give her before you leave the house so she'll be ok during the car ride and then is basically prepped for them during any other procedures???

It's possible, I get her blood work back by tomorrow so we can see if it's a possibility. Though, with her roots being so elongated I don't know if she is too far past the point of trimmings making her any more comfortable besides that it stopped her drooling. She is swiping at her mouth still, even with pain killers and the trimming. I can post a photo of her xrays but even I can see they are not good. I don't know if it's worth putting her through all that for the same outcome in the end, which is absolutely killing me.

 

[Lissy]

I'm so sorry

 

[Amethyst]

I'm so sorry, that was not the outcome I was hoping to hear. If it helps at all, since she is young, I would think it's more likely genetic malo, so nothing you did or could have done different to prevent it (unless of course it's a chin you personally bred).

I would give the pain meds more time to work. I don't know if you know what it's like to have dental work done, but it's not uncommon for chins (or humans) to have a bit of discomfort and/or their mouth doesn't feel quite right for up to about a week after trimmings.

 

[MinchiBaby]

I'm so sorry

I'm so sorry, that was not the outcome I was hoping to hear. If it helps at all, since she is young, I would think it's more likely genetic malo, so nothing you did or could have done different to prevent it (unless of course it's a chin you personally bred).

I would give the pain meds more time to work. I don't know if you know what it's like to have dental work done, but it's not uncommon for chins (or humans) to have a bit of discomfort and/or their mouth doesn't feel quite right for up to about a week after trimmings.

Thank you both for your kind words <3 I also thought it was likely genetic, and maybe it was the cause of her not wanting to eat hay this whole time. She's my first ever chinchilla, definitely not bred by me lol, her genetics were just luck of the draw.

She did wake up a lot more like herself today, super bouncy and happy to see me! The happiest she's been in a while. I'm hopeful the meds are making her feel much more comfortable. While I am aware there is no cure, the more comfortable I can make her in the meantime the better. She is a high energy girl and she is at her happiest when she can run laps and especially happy when she can run on her wheel.

Is there anyone here with experience looking at xrays who'd be willing to look at hers? I'd love to get some outside opinions on how they look. I hardly really know what I'm looking at apart from it being obvious her teeth are maloccluded. I'd greatly appreciate the input!

 

[Lissy]

How's she doing?

 

[Markhood]

I lack expertise in interpreting x-rays, but I'm relieved to hear your chinchilla is experiencing increased comfort.