Maybe I'm just not a cat person... can anyone give me tips on these kittens?

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I was only going off of what you said that you had them in the bathroom while you were sleeping, while you were at class, while you walked the dog, and while you were studying. That sure sounds like almost all of the day.

For the record, I DO NOT allow my cat on any surface that I do not sit on. That includes counters, kitchen table, end tables, etc. Feet that go in a litterbox do not belong on a surface that I put food on (in my house anyway).
 
Why are people [not everyone] bashing her saying she's in over her head, she needs to get rid of stuff, her apt is a miserable place to live, and she's not willing to make any changes., it sounds like they are in the bathroom all day because she mentioned they are in there while sleeping, working at school...etc.. it doesn't mean she goes from one place to the other to the next so therefore they are locked up continuously all day long, and etc..Come on step back and don't add things to her story that she didn't say and think of the worst possible scenerio.

She came to us for help, which means she is willing to make changes, but sounds like she's never owned a kitten before so she's not sure what she has to do and the normal behavor of a cat/kitten is. Hence, let me ask people on the forum for help, oh but wait 'lets bash her instead of helping her'. ANd as for her apt.. no one is in her shoes, maybe she can't afford to go out and buy a $200k home.. NOt everyone can.. And why is her place miserable, because she doesn't have alot of storage places..come on people.. Lets help her out instead of knocking her down. If she wasn't willing to try this out, she wouldn't be asking for our help, she would of just dumped the kittens, but she didn't, right. And I think it's quite normal for someone that has never had a kitten/cat before not to know what to expect or how to change certain problems. Sure maybe she knows people with cats, but that doesn't mean she knows everything about how they are. And even so, I've had cats since I was a kid so I know what they do, and personally I've had some that were more devilish than others [as i'm sure everyone has], but to be quite frank, from the sounds of it, hers are worse than all my kittens put together, and whether or not we are brave enough to admit, we all have a tolerance level.

Can we be honest for a minute, and think back, did any of use ever think something would be a good idea and work out for us and not realize the work involved or how complicated or involved something might be until they made the choice to do it, or get that type of pet, or whatever it might be. I'd be willing to bet almost everyone here has, but might not admit to it. No one is perfect.

I have pm'd her giving her suggestions, sent her some pictures of things I do to try and help her out.. Let's all do the same and if you had the same type of problem tell her how exactly you corrected it so she can learn and do the same. Whenever you get a new type of pet for the first time, it's a learning experience and people do need to seek advice out on how to correct things or just on how to make things work.

ANd I'm sure people will bash me for this post, but honestly if they do, that is fine with me, but this is how I feel and I really think we should step back and not assume and help each other out instead of bashing people.
 
Yesterday, I was at school for 5 hours, then I slept for 6 last night. That was the only time they didn't have the run of the place....

Tiatrack - that's pretty much how I want it here. If I wouldn't sit on it (couch, bed, chair) I don't want them on it... but people on here are making it sound that if I don't let them on every surface in the house I'm depriving them... and I really don't feel like I am...

I have to say, I'm with Jean here. I AM trying. I'm sorry I don't have a huge house, tons of storage space, and I'm sorry I'm not a millionare and I can't sit home all day and play with my pets. But... I can't. And I don't think that's practical for most people. Let me ask you (and I really mean, here, I'd like people to let me know). All of you that are telling me I don't have time, and all that... do you have several hours every day where you just sit around and are like "ho, hum, what should I do??? I have nothing to do!" I mean do you really? Because while I'm home for a lot of the day on several days a week (most days except for Sat/Sun, I'm only gone for a total of 4-6 hours), it's only a night or two a week when I really have time to watch tv or something... I mean yeah I'm HOME... but there are things to do. The house needs to be cleaned, the homework needs to be done, and so on. I don't have just tons of hours where I can sit around and say there's nothing that needs to be done... I imagine it'd be even worse if I owned a house and had the yard and all that more to deal with... So I mean, really, do you have time to just sit around and do nothing? Hours of this "time"? Maybe some people do, I suppose it's possible... just not me, and not most the people I know that have jobs or go to school....

And I did come here for help... and some people are nicely offering suggestions, which I appreciate. However, it's frustrating when one person says put them away when you're not home and another bashes me for it. I'm only trying to do what's suggested. Same with the foil. I covered the bathroom counter in the foil, which someone suggested. They didn't care. I'm going to try the tape in a few minutes once I post this, but I'm not sure, short of covering the WHOLE counter with tape, that they're gonna mind... cause they didn't care bout the foil... even taped down, they ripped it off and chewed it up...

When they had the run of the house was when they were destructive, hence, I put them away. SO, I'm not so sure the PROBLEM is that they don't have enough space.

I would appreciate ideas and suggestions. I didn't come on here to be bashed, which is partially why I'm not on this forum anymore--because I've seen too many times people come for help and get bashed... Helpful suggestions are good.

If someone answered my QUESTIONs, that would be terrific as well. I've asked if there's a better method than spraying. No one has told me. I've asked, for the foil thing which has proved to be ineffective, if I should cover all surfaces that I don't want them on with foil. Again, no one's told me. The helpful posts, I greatly appreciate, I do. But I feel like a lot of people are talking a lot...but not saying much that's actually helpful...
 
The bottom line is you're not completely happy with these kittens.

Sure you've made changes, try to correct it, whatever, but what happens if these kittens never change? What are you going to do a year from now and they're still doing what they are now?

I will tell you right now, my almost 3 year old cat, my 2 year old and my almost one year old still get their butts into a load of trouble. They've climbed blinds, knocked stuff down, broken things, bit, ruined things, clawed things they weren't suppose to...galore. My newest kitten is a whole 'nother story. It takes a lot to be a cat owner, they're independent little buggers but at the end of the day I wouldn't change it for the world.
 
I think the problem here is you want a 100% clear answer on how to fix the "problem." Unfortunately, raising kittens (or any animal) is an art, not a science. Some cats aren't phased by the squirt gun. I've heard some people use vinegar, because the taste is awful and it is more of a punishment for the cat. I haven't used it myself. Another option is a can full of pennies that you shake. Or when they jump up immediately take them down EVERY TIME with a firm NO for several days. It will be time consuming, but you have to be consistent. For the really stubborn cats, they do make Scat Mats which give them a small shock. I've never used them either, but I know people that have with great success.

You aren't giving a very clear idea of how much time you DO have to spend with them. I work full-time with a 45 minute commute each way. I also have a husband, chinchillas, our own cat, and a new house to take care of, so it's not like I'm a person home all the time. At "my" shelter we commit to spending at least one hour per day of solid time with foster kittens. I get at least 2 in each day. Can you find ways to study and be with them? For example, I have a new 5 week old litter of 4 in my bathroom right now. I take my laptop in there, sit on the floor, and surf the internet or do easy work while playing with them for at least an hour. Before I go to bed, I'll sit on the floor and read a book while petting the kittens. This is in addition to the "hands-on" time I spend playing with them. That way they are still being socialized and getting human time, but you don't have to be 100% active with them. Is this something you might be able to do? Maybe they are misbehaving because it is a good way to get you to pay attention to them.

As for the tape, usually it works to just put enough around where they would first jump. However, you have a fiesty pair, so more tape might be better in the beginning.

It sounds like you have a tough pair, and you're going to have to be committed to trying lots of different techniques if you want them to fit into your life. Just like some kids are naturally easygoing and some are very high-strung, cats are the same way.
 
Ok no offense to the people that say I'm not happy with them... but I wouldn't be here posting questions if I WAS completely happy with these kittens and everything was hunky dory... that's why I'm asking, because I want to try to fix things....

Well, if they don't change in some amount of time, then I will rehome them. I'm not against that option. However, I refuse to be the owner that doesn't give them a chance to see if they settle in and things work themselves out. If they don't show some improvement, eventually, then I will find them a new home. I wasn't crazy about my dog as a puppy either-- not like she's settled down much, but she's calmed down to the extent where I can live with her... and by that I don't mean just barely tolerate her, but I like having my dog here. If I keep the cats for a year or two and they're still hyper and psychotic, then they'll be finding a new home. At some point, if they don't learn the counters and the table are a no-no, they're gone. Sorry, but I won't have any animal leaping up on tables for the next 15 years of my life. I can tolerate that kind of thing until they learn, but in the event they don't... Like I've said, I have friends who have cats, and while I don't know how the cats were as kittens, once they got to that year+ (which is when I met a lot of the people), the cats seemed rather calmed down. That's what I'm hoping for.

Well I wasn't so much looking for a 100% answer as I was looking for different ideas... thanks Tiatrack for the several ideas, I will try some of those.

Ok, Monday-Friday, I'm at school 4-6 hours. It's a 30 minute drive to school, so say that adds on another hour per day. Say I have an errand or two that needs to be run, so maybe another hour or two off every or every other day. Plus, I have the dog and other pets, so say another hour off each day for walk and feed/water.

I suppose the problem with my "work" for law school is it all requires reading a textbook and taking notes. I'm sure it all depends on how people do work, but I have to do that on a flat surface. I can't balance a laptop on my lap and a book next to me on the couch, I have to pretty much be at a table or at my desk. So that kind of knocks out the option of doing the homework and playing with them at the same time.

The one, however, does like to sit in my lap while I do homework and I'll pet her while I'm sitting and doing my stuff.

Now I have a question--when you say you play with each kitten for an hour, do you mind if I ask what you do? Because mine, like say I throw the mouse and they go and get it, and I throw it again, and I wave the feather thing and they sort of chase it..... but they get tired of the feather thing pretty quick and after a few throws of the mouse, they look a little less enthused. So... what do you do to play with them? I haven't gone to get a lazer pointer yet, although that is a good idea and I will go get one... but like what else?

I mean not to sound cheap... but I hate to go buy a million toys when they only play with a few. I've got them several toys but all they really play with are those little toy mice, my wrapped candy out of my candy bowl, and the feather thing. I mean I know all cats are different, but they don't like 90% of the stuff I've bought for them so I hate to go buy a ton more.... I haven't tried the straws yet, I need to go get those out of the drawer... I mean are there some toys someone could suggest that all cats just love?

Ok, I will do that with the tape....
 
I'm not trying to start trouble here but I just feel I have to say this..


Cassi, I don't think it's that she's not happy with the kittens, I just truely feel it's that she is not kitten knowledgeable and so she's frustrated because she's never gone threw kittenhood before. If she didn't like them and didn't want to keep them, she probably wouldn't be asking for advise. It's always hard to get used to something new, not matter what it is, well maybe not everything.. but i'm sure you get what I mean. And if your someone that has never owned a kitten before, then I feel it's normal to be frustrated and not know what to do.

And Tia, You are so right, there is no 100% sure way to correct certain things... just like training a dog, what works for one won't necessarily work for another, but giving her those ideas you did are a great way for her to start off, to see what will work, and most importanly learn about how to possibly correct some kitten behaviors since she's never dealt with kittens before. You thought of some great suggestions that I totally forgot about so hopefully between everyone's help something will work for her. I so forgot the penny thing... I peronsonally never had to use it, but I've heard of it...great idea...maybe that will work..
 
I actually do have a jar of coins, as a matter of fact, I put all my change in a jar to take to the bank... I suppose I maybe should use a smaller one, haha, but that will be one thing that's tried out... right now, they're just running around on the carpet like good little kitties...
 
I don't believe that only stay at home moms and wealthy people are the only ones suited to take care of animals, as you earlier implied. I have 2 dogs, a cat , a kitten and 8 chinchillas. I also have a fulltime job, a husband and 3 children ages 1-10 years. But, I can also say that none of my animals are crated or locked in any room intentionally for any length of time on any given day. My animals are trained well enough that I don't need to worry about them while I'm gone. The kitten does get into occassional trouble, but nothing that would concern me enough to lock him somewhere. He'll grow out of it, as yours will too with time. Like Tiatrack said, alot of cats aren't afraid of water. My kitten loves water, he even plays in the water dish. There really isn't a clear cut answer for any of this. I'm not saying that you're a bad person for not being kitten savvy or a kitten lover, all I'm saying is it's really not fair to the kittens to be locked up like they are. That really adds up to alot of hours a day.
By your own admission you go to school, need to run errands, need to study and you said that you like to do other things as well. That's all fine, but that may mean that you just don't have the required time right now to take care of a kitten. They're just more work than you thought. Just keep in mind that it's alot easier to find a home for a young kitten than it is to find a home for a cat. What if they don't outgrow their behavior? Then you're going to have 2 cats that are going to need homes.
You came here for facts ,opinions and help. That's what we are providing you with. I know not everyone's going to tell you what you want to hear. But again, my opinion is that you have too much on your plate right now for these kittens. You'd probably be better off finding them a good home.
 
Honestly, my foster kittens tend to love the cheapest toys! I'd guess 90% love paper balls, and that keeps them mostly busy on their own. Wad up a little piece of paper and throw it. They will bat it around for awhile. Then you throw it again. Straws are also great. Many love to bat around twist-ties, but I only allow those with supervision so they don't get eaten.

For some of the caged adults at the shelter that are very active, we make cardboard box tunnels for them. Turn a box upside down and cut holes in in for them to hide in. They also like to jump on the box, or pounce on each other via the holes. That would be something easy for you because you could flatten the box(es) when the kittens aren't out for playtime.

For my kitten playtime I usually let them "decide" what they want to do. I'll wave around wand toys, which they usually play with for a bit. Some then just want to walk all over me and be pet, some want to jump around/in the cloth jungle gym I have, some prefer to run around like spazzes, some like to explore, some will chase paper balls for the entire hour. Usually I find they just like having human company.
 
Listen... I don't LIKE to keep my dog in the crate all day, any more than I like to keep the cats in the bathroom while I'm gone. HOWEVER, the trainer I take my dog to says (and I know other trainers say this as well) that the safest place for an animal when you're not home is their crate. My dog has pulled pans off of the stove (thank god, not while the stove was on or anything in them), table cloths off tables, chewed corners off dressers, and so on. She's gotten better, but she acts out when we leave her, and shes' not in a crate. While some people's pets may be angels and may never have to be locked in a crate, mine do. At least for now. Plus, I like my wood furniture, and my dogs has issues and chews on it when I leave... but not when I'm here. I imagine maybe when she's a little older, she'll be able to be left out. A lot of the training books I've read say that you can't fully EXPECT to leave a dog out until they're 1.5-2+ years old. Now, I don't think they should be crated constantly until that time, but I do think this kind of thing applies across the board to all animals.

Nicky... that's great your pets don't have to be crated. But in all honesty, I don't think that works for a lot of people. If you counted up the hours that I'm gone in a day, it ranges from around 6-8. I really don't think that's all that long. Now, when you say that your pets are all well behaved enough to stay out... were they all like that at first? I mean surely you didn't bring the dogs home at 8 weeks and let them have the roam of the house until they were potty trained and learned not to chew the furniture, right? See, to me, that's where I am right now. I feel the cats will get the hang of it, and then they won't be in there for those 6-8 hours while I'm at school/work, etc.

Tiatrack--thanks for the suggestions. :) I will try those out.
 
Ok tria, you just reminded me,thanks..yes grey, i have found that with all the animals i have owned that the toys they liked best were things that weren't bought for them.. IE.. soda top, lol... yes i had cats that loved them so i used to just throw them on the floor when the soda bottle was empty, and also try twisty ties like from bread loafs.. they might like those too.. simple piece of string and let them chase it around... oh and if you can find a box, doesnt' have to be big, cats just love climbing in them.. they will get sick of that box, but when you bring another one home...oh boy.. new toy...lol.. and they will be all over it again..if you have any of those paper bags, like they used to use before plastic.. cats love going in them...

and this has nothing to do with your problem but because someone said that some cats aren't bothered by water, i just have to post this link, it's way to funny..

http://video.yahoo.com/network/100284668?v...1&l=3774740
 
If someone has already suggested this, I am sorry for repeating it, but did do not remember seeing it anywhere so here goes:
For the surfaces you do not want the kitties on, get one those chair mats that they sell so your office chair rolls around nicely. You know, the clear plastic ones? Costco and Sams sell em prettycheap. Cut them into pieces to fit where you need to make a "statement", placed bumpy side up. They will not like the feel of these.
I do allow my cats on my furniture, but... there is one chair in particular that the cats love. It is made of this tweed like material and they sharpen their claws on it. It does not ever show. They sleep on it, all curled up and bunched together. Unfortunately this is (was) my husbands favorite chair and he asked me to move it upstairs but I declined. It keeps the cats happy, with a place to sleep and a place to claw. Maybe you could allow them one comfy piece of furniture, and teach them the rest of it has pointy nubs.
I think you will really like the kitties after a while and commend you for your efforts to try and figure out how to live with a new species. I myself just learned how to live with a dog for the first time in my life (a rescue of coarse. I like to call him a labollie hound. sounds like one of those fancy mutts everyone is buying lately). I was scarred #$@*less at first and almost backed out. But we are doing fine, and I am starting to wonder why I never got a dog before.
 
Some pics of the rascals.... they are adorable....

Ginger
ginger_1.jpg


ginger_2.jpg


Gypsy
gypsy_1.jpg


gypsy_2.jpg
 
Over the years I've had a few kittens/cats, but never as rambunctious as the two described!
Cheapest and most played with toy I found, was a rubber mouse, tied to the center of a doorway, [I used thumbtacks to fasten] with interwoven rubber bands, hung about 8"high!
They grab it, and try to walk away, until it gets tighter, and pulls away! Just sit back and watch, maybe get a camera, if you can take a picture while laughing so hard, your sides will hurt, it's that funny!!
 
Haha Rick, I'll have to try that. They looooooooooooove those mice you can buy at the petstores, like in a pack of 9 or whatever, I even have one that squeaks when they bat it (which was a HOOT! when they batted it the first few times and it scared them).... anyway, I'll have to try that with one of those mice... If I throw the mice for them, they go run after them and pick it up and carry it around, so this should be quite amusing....
 
Don't be drinking anything, or you'll have it coming out your nose!
Set up a video camera, as you could send it to FHV!!
And their reaction the first time is priceless!!
 
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