Kit Deaths: Please Help

[dcChins]

Hello,

I have a pair of chinchillas that are just three years old. In the last 2 years I have had 3 kit deaths and two successes. I am not a breeder nor do I wish to breed. I simply thought having another chin in my family would be a great experience or I would be able to bring Chin joy into my friends/family lives.

But I am hurt and confused. I have never seen any evidence of mating. I have never found a plug. My females nipples do not show. She does not lay down. I do not feel a difference in her body. I am 100% not seeing signs of pregnancy and bad things are happening.

The first kit they had, I found dead in the bottom of their cage. It was still wet and there was no visible harm, yet it was dead. I had not heard the birthing or any fighting.

The second kit they had, I found dead in the bottom of the cage again. It was the same situation. Still wet, no harm, but dead and it couldn't have been long.

The third time was a miracle. I was blessed with two healthy female chins. I never had any problems, but it was such a shock! I still saw no signs of pregnancy.

This is the fourth time now. I go to feed them before bed and there is a dead kit in the bottom of the cage. I had no clue at all this time that she was pregnant. I never saw any mating attempts, plugs, fur, or anything.

My heart is broken. My babies are spoiled and loved. They are so well cared for. I would love to continue to have births and happiness, but I am thinking I will have to neuter my male. I cannot stand failing them like this.

If I could prevent this from happening I would love to have one more kit. What am I doing wrong? Is the male killing them? Could it be still births?

The mother is a mosaic and the father is either an ebony or TOV. I do not have their pedigrees as I am the second owner. However, they are well bred from a professional. Just to be clear, I have no desire to sell or breed for profit. I just need to know what is best for my chins. Thank you.

 

[tunes]

You have a male and a female together - you are breeding whether you say you want to or not. It doesn't matter whether you sell them or keep them, if you are producing babies, you are a breeder. I just wanted to clear that up.

It's possible that genetically these two just don't mesh. It's also possible that the mom isn't a good breeder and will continue to lose her kits. It happens sometimes. It's also possible that the kits are being crushed when dad keeps trying to breed back with mom. Mom can get pregnant again before she even gives birth. If dad is pretty persistent, kits get can be killed. What do the kits look like when you find them? Are they fully formed? Are they in pieces? Are they flat?

She's had four pregnancies, five kits, and only two have lived. If it was me, I would not allow her to breed again.

BTW - I've yet to find a breeding plug. I know my females are pregnant when I see the kits running around the cage.

 

[chinsNdobermans]

I second the fact that you are a breeder - you are allowing these animals to mate and produce babies, and intentionally housing them together.

The only way to prevent this from happening is to separate your chinchillas, or neuter the male, which would require temporary separation anyway.

 

[ticklechin]

The situaton with this female is not going to change by breeding over and over again, there is a obvious issue with her producing live kits or by your male killing them. Bring joy to your family and friends another way, just keep these chins as separate pets.

 

[Dreamlite]

Separate them. They are clearly not meant to be bred. Male + female = breeding. You obviously know the importance of a pedigree for breeding or you wouldn't have mentioned it. Keep them apart as pets. There is no joy in having dead kits. You are lucky she hasn't retained one yet. Mating plugs are extremely rare and breeding takes literaly seconds.

 

[6Dusters]

I see your new to the forum by your post numbers. For the most part, any advice you will receive to your post will be from breeders of pedigree animals, ranchers, rescue persons or those who have had animals for a long time.

My advice is to separate them. I had a couple who came to me as a rescue pair. The female scared me to death having kits not long afterwards. By accident she killed one and the other two lived.
This couple was fine after a separation. Female had been having litter after litter because male plus female.....equals kits. My dear, bad things can happen. And I stress "can."

I have been breeding for a few short years and showing. I did homework for 5 years before a bought a pedigree male. Then the hard part was learning how to pair him up with very good female for breeding.
Now the only reason I'm writing all this down is to keep you "grounded". Here are a few things that could go wrong. ( I know I will miss a few, but here are a few basics)

It will be a miracle if you find a mating plug!! A female may not have a wide enough pelvis to push a larger kit through. Kits will either get stuck or die inside. Some die inside and mom's are hauled off to be operated on. That is if the person is quick enough to know something is wrong. If not.... then mom ends up dying from a bacterial infection or worse. From what I understand that is a $1K operation. ( give or take )

Some kits are born first and live and the next are born dead. Some kits need suction help. Some need extra help by human hands to warm them up if mom is having a hard time with birth contractions and won't warm number 1 or 2 or 3.
Kits can be crushed by dads still in the cage and no separation or box for kits to hide in are left in the cage.
Some mothers don't get milk in for several days or no milk at all. Do you have a formula kit? And are prepared to be up all night for weeks on end? I only throw that one in there as I lost an entire summer several years ago. THAT SUCKED!!! Yep, I shouted that one. My family lost an entire summer's fun at the beach because no one would help me with one kit.

Lastly I have two things. I hope your not keeping these two together and breeding back to back to back. I'm not saying your doing this. But if you are.....its the worst. Even breeders and ranchers give animals "time off" without a male around. Even a human pregnancy is hard on the body. Trust me...

Last one. If you do neuter your male. Make sure you know what Critical Care is. CC is what the forum will post most often. Your male will not eat after his surgery. You will have to feed him by hand. And that sucks too! The reward is him living. The bad part is it SUCKS!!!!!

So don't run away from the forum if others post their "tough love". :crossfingers:

 

[Zoaea]

Some die inside and mom's are hauled off to be operated on. That is if the person is quick enough to know something is wrong. If not.... then mom ends up dying from a bacterial infection or worse. From what I understand that is a $1K operation. ( give or take )

Sounds about right, my girls emergency spay when she had a stuck kit was 1300$ after all her visits. It can be a little cheaper if its not after hours, plus she had an infection set in a week after that needed more treatment.

I hear neutering the males is safer nowadays but make sure you get a vet that has done it before. And be prepared to have him separate for 8+ weeks. You could also have a bachelor pad for him and put mom and 2 daughters together.

If the babies were wet when you found them they were either stillborn or died very shortly after birth as they dry off fast and start zooming around. She did have two living kits so it makes me think it is more likely a genetic issue and not simply her failing to care for the kit. It's possible that there is a genetic aberration the female is passing on that is making the kits unviable outside of the womb. Knowing if she is pregnant or not would not change the outcome in any case. =(

Hope your chinnies do better with a new arrangement!

 

[AZChins]

These things happen when breeding chins. It could be any number of things that killed the kits. The only way to never have any kits die is to not breed chinchillas, (or keep a male and female together for any length of time.) Problems occur, it is to be expected. This is why I recommend that people keep chins as pets unless they are prepared for the expense and heartbreak that can go along with breeding.

 

[Narcissus]

when you say "bottom of the cage".... how tall is your cage? Females that are breeding need to be in kit safe cages. I deffinatly agree with what everyone has said, separate them and/or neuter the male.

 

[dcChins]

Thank you everyone. From what I have read here I will go ahead and neuter my male. The kits are wet, flat, and their eyes were never opened. So I do think that they are being born dead or dying shortly after.

No, they were never bred back to back. I have a two story ferret nation cage. I slide in a panel to keep the male and female on separate levels for awhile. I had confined them to the bottom section temporarily and there are no ledges she could have gave birth on. The kit couldn't have fallen.

I will have my male neutered. I couldn't stand to lose one of them because of a bad labor. Thank you for your thoughts and suggestions.

 

[chinsNdobermans]

Thank you for taking this all into consideration - I really appreciate your very thoughtful response.

Find a good vet who has done neuters before. After a couple of months your pair can be reunited.

Good luck.

 

[RDZCRanch]

Thank you everyone. From what I have read here I will go ahead and neuter my male. The kits are wet, flat, and their eyes were never opened. So I do think that they are being born dead or dying shortly after.

If the dead kits were whole and not missing anything, they were born alive and died shortly after. If a kit is stillborn, the parents will attempt to destroy the body by consuming it. If the kit is born alive and then dies, they will typically not try to consume the body.

I would assume that the female is either not a good mother in that she is not attentive to her newborns or dad is being too vigorous in his attempts to breed her after the kit is born, causing them to trample the baby.

ETA: It is a good decision to neuter him if you plan to keep them together. I don't believe the female should be bred if she has had that many babies die.

 

[Basket_of_Chinchillas]

I hope that the neuter goes smoothly and that you have a happy bonded pair who can live happily and healthily together

 

[Vyxxin]

Definitely neuter. They can live out a happy, healthy life together. In this situation, as mentioned, you're lucky she hasn't retained one yet. Generally when a female has several average size litters...and some or all of the kits do not survive...there's a reason (many of which are mentioned in this thread). It's not likely to resolve. Period.

Spay/neuter is honestly your safest option if you want to house them together. Best of luck.

 

[Lynn & The Chins]

Good decision!!!

Please find an experienced Exotic Vet and have him neutered. I have had 3 males successfully neutered with only very minor complications, and that was in 2006.

Just as in human medicine, advances are made every day for animals. The neutering process is now done by laser and I have not heard of any deaths from neutering in a very long time.

Just be sure to keep your male in a small, low cage with no wheel so he won't try to run or jump up onto a ledge and hurt himself.

 

[saphire]

I have had 5 males done at different times and no complications at all. All starting acting normal in all areas within the same day. Although, I love my vet, she is awesome with them. A little pain med for a day does help though. ;0)