Injured Kit, Swollen Head

[ErinsChins]

Erin,
I had a kit (we called her bubble head for this) that had a soft swollen spot after recieving a bite from a sibling. Turned out it was a pocket of air between her skin and skull. A needle and hose drained it out. We only had to drain it once.

Okay, this is what I was wondering. Thank you for mentioning this because that is what I immediately thought. I'm sure the vet can give a solid answer.

 

[Amy555]

From the Nutrena website, this is the nearest location it suggested:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/StoreLocatorSearchView?storeId=10551&catalogId=10001&strId=520

Is that one of the places you tried? If so, maybe they could special order some feed for you since they're already a Nutrena (horse) feed distributor.

 

[ErinsChins]

@Amy, yes, that would be a mile from my house. I have asked that one and the one in elizabethton if they could order and they said no

 

[Riven]

Toxemia from what? And what was used to cure it? Toxemia generally won't cause calcium loss, and a normal pregnancy on a healthy diet should not affect it that much either.

 

[Claire D]

The kit needs to see a chinchilla competent vet - as Peggy has already suggested, there is no reason that she cannot have Septrin but she needs to be fully assessed to see what is going on.

 

[ErinsChins]

Toxemia from what? And what was used to cure it? Toxemia generally won't cause calcium loss, and a normal pregnancy on a healthy diet should not affect it that much either.

Pregnancy toxemia. I'm not sure what she gave for that, but I can tell you all she did that day? She gave SUBQ fluids, Calcium, Dextrose, I think that's it?

ETA: She gave VitB also.

 

[Claire D]

Pregnancy toxemia. I'm not sure what she gave for that, but I can tell you all she did that day? She gave SUBQ fluids, Calcium, Dextrose, I think that's it?

When did she get that little lot? Sounds like she was covering all bases & had not made her mind up about what she was treating TBH.

Females can have low level, underlying infections which can cause early kit deaths. They can also retain bits of tissue after labour which necrose & lead to systemic infection, septicaemia & death.....

 

[ErinsChins]

When did she get that little lot? Sounds like she was covering all bases & had not made her mind up about what she was treating TBH.

Females can have low level, underlying infections which can cause early kit deaths. They can also retain bits of tissue after labour which necrose & lead to systemic infection, septicaemia & death.....

On the 2nd of December. The information can be seen here: http://chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20815

 

[Riven]

How long did the seizure occur before birthing? I find it strange that a vet would say it's eclampsia then just let the chin go home. The toxicity in the body is caused by the placenta generally and is only corrected by removing it, thus induction of labor or c-section. Not doing so puts the mother chin at risk of or organs failing. Dextrose is a sugar and wouldn't do anything really for eclampsia, and the calcium if hypecalcemia was an issue could stop the seizures, but that has nothing to do with eclampsia. Usually if eclampsia gets to the point of seizures it's because the body is on the verge of shutting down.
If it was truly the case I feel the vet acting wrongly, or if it was misdiagnosis, then again the vet was wrong. I know a doctor would never send a human home who had suffered a seizure from eclampsia, which is the proper term for toxicity due to pregnancy, toxemia itself refers to toxic state of blood, which can be caused by many factors such as kidneys failing, etc.

ETA: I agree with Claire, none of those meds would be used to treat true eclampsia, and this happened about 4 weeks before littering? If it was true eclampsia the mother would've died from toxicity well before those four weeks.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Definitely a vet visit in order and also examine their diets.

How long have you been feeding the mixture? How are everyone's teeth (especially those that you've had the longest)? Any supplement or hay? How is the quality of the hay?

The enamel on rodents teeth is a balance of Iron, Ca and P - a deficiency or inability to absorb any of the three could potentially cause whiter teeth.

We've been feeding PRCS since May and have had great results. No Ca or Iron deficiencies that I can tell of, great births, etc. Through googling for the Nutrena guaranteed analysis and ingredients I've seen a lot of comments from rabbit breeders about losses when feeding Nutrena. (And I STILL can't find the guaranteed analysis and ingredients - can someone upload that to the diet and nutrition forum?).

It could be that just that female has a problem absorbing Ca or Iron but definitely check out all of your animals.

 

[Riven]

Alicyn, I think a lot of feed issues occur due to multiple milling locations and the fact that many feeds do not require a set amount of each substance and allow for substitutions depending on the price of current ingredients. I was never happy on PANR, birth rates were good, but the animals just never seemed to reach their full potential to me, and every other lot I picked up was a different color and different smell. I'm not saying this is the case with every dealer/mill etc. But that is what I experienced when feeding the PANR.

I tried Manna Pro for a while and things were okay on it, no issues with the feed itself, but again I just didn't feel like I was getting "all I could" out of my animals.

 

[ErinsChins]

How long did the seizure occur before birthing? I find it strange that a vet would say it's eclampsia then just let the chin go home. The toxicity in the body is caused by the placenta generally and is only corrected by removing it, thus induction of labor or c-section. Not doing so puts the mother chin at risk of or organs failing. Dextrose is a sugar and wouldn't do anything really for eclampsia, and the calcium if hypecalcemia was an issue could stop the seizures, but that has nothing to do with eclampsia. Usually if eclampsia gets to the point of seizures it's because the body is on the verge of shutting down.
If it was truly the case I feel the vet acting wrongly, or if it was misdiagnosis, then again the vet was wrong. I know a doctor would never send a human home who had suffered a seizure from eclampsia, which is the proper term for toxicity due to pregnancy, toxemia itself refers to toxic state of blood, which can be caused by many factors such as kidneys failing, etc.

ETA: I agree with Claire, none of those meds would be used to treat true eclampsia, and this happened about 4 weeks before littering? If it was true eclampsia the mother would've died from toxicity well before those four weeks.

I can't really add much to this because I honestly haven't done much research on it. This was my first time seeing said vet, but I have heard nothing but great things about her. She also said she's done 7 neuters and tons of tooth work on chinchillas. I'll be honest though, she didn't seem comfortable with her diagnosis. She kind of, idk, pulled it out of her butt at the last minute? She had talked on the phone with a vet at UT and I think she let them make the diagnosis (Which sucks because, well, they didn't see the chinchillas).

Anyway, I have fed PRSC/PANR and Mazuri for about 2 years now. However, up until about a year and a half ago it was the opposite, more mazuri than panr.

 

[Claire D]

So this is the chin with the tooth abscess? Has she been eating normally or has she still been on Oxbow Critical Care?

 

[ErinsChins]

So this is the chin with the tooth abscess? Has she been eating normally or has she still been on Oxbow Critical Care?

She started eating regular pellet food about 4 days after the vet appointment. I got excited because my SS sent me one of Alli's Christmas sets. I gave her the big tree and she demolished it in a day. This made me happy because she hadn't been chewing. She just recently started eating hay though, maybe 2 weeks ago?

 

[ErinsChins]

Hi guys. Bad news x2. Firstly, I was unable to make it to the vet appointment. The roads in my neighborhood are very icy and we slid all the way down the drive way (and couldn't get back up). Secondly, the "scab" on the top of the head where it was swollen has fallen off. There is a large hole in the kits head. I had no idea it was there, or how it got there. I posted some pictures. Hopefully someone can give me some advice. I know the kit needs to see a vet, but there is no way we can make it until the roads clear. (I didn't think they would still be bad )

There is also one more thing that is worrying me slightly. She has scabs ALL over her back. But they aren't typical scabs, if you pull them gently the fur falls right out and it's just white peely like skin (Idk how to describe it), I think if I kept looking at them, I would have a bald chinchilla.

 

[Paws4Chins]

I am so sorry that you are dealing with this traumatic event and I the poor little baby. As for the whole in the head I am not really experienced with Chin injuries but what it looks like to me is that the scab was covering a puncture wound and underneath it was infection (it looks like puss) in the wound). Could be the squishy part is an abscess and you just uncovered the whole (this is sort of what abscesses look like in cats). As for the scabs spreading down the back perhaps the infection is spreading somewhat like a staph infection that cats and dogs get. Again, I am no expert with Chin wounds and am only basing my comment on what I knew about other animal wounds. What I do knew is it does not sound or look very good. I do hope you can get her to vet soon.

 

[Claire D]

That's a big abscess for a small kit.
It is possible some of the other wounds are hiding abscesses too.

Is she gaining weight?

Do you have any Septrin on hand?

 

[tunes]

Ya, that's what I was afraid of. As I said, kits do not usually have large, squishy spots on their heads.

You need to get that abscess open and draining. If you can't get to the vet today because of roads, do you have a scalpel on hand (I know, sounds strange, but I keep them here just for this type of thing)? Just pulling it apart is probably not going to do much and it's going to cause her a buttload of pain. You need to get her to a vet ASAP if you have nothing there, because that infection is very, very nasty. She needs the abscess drained, she could probably use a hit of some subcu fluids, and she needs antibiotics without a doubt.

The scabs coming off with the hair is not something I would worry about. I would be looking at what's under all those scabs. You need to be sure that there are no more abscesses that you can't see/feel.

This little one was worked over pretty badly. From the pictures you show, I would prepare myself for the worst, especially if you can't get her into the vet today. The longer that abscess stays, the more the infection is going to grow.

 

[Claire D]

From the photo I would guess the abscess is already pretty well open. TBH it looks like she has a hole there with sloughy tissue in the base (the yellow stuff we can see in the middle). I'd be very wary of fiddling with any of it until she is seen by a vet - the only thing I would do is, as Peggy has suggested already, make sure the hole does not close. You can gently clean it with some saline (salt water) & non-linting, clean cloth (a gauze swab is best). Keep the scab off it if you possibly can - that will reduce pressure & pain & allow it to drain.
Apart from the other wounds the issue I would worry about is whether there has been any damage done to the skull itself.

Antibiotics are a must & she may well need a little pain relief (yes, you can give pain relief in teeny chins).

I have to say that, sadly, I also agree with Peggy's appraisal:

This little one was worked over pretty badly. From the pictures you show, I would prepare myself for the worst, especially if you can't get her into the vet today. The longer that abscess stays, the more the infection is going to grow.

 

[Riven]

If you don't have a scapel a sterile syringe needle would work as well to make a puncture in the middle of the "squishy" area. But before doing that, have you put pressure on the squishy area to see if it moves any more puss out of the open area? If not gently do that. Antibiotics are a must. Don't worry about the white under the back scabs, that can heal over time, but if there are any other very large ones that have this sort of puss in them they need to be cleaned.

I just sat here debating if I should recommend this or not, but I will and let you decide if it's right for you. Generally with tramatic wounds that cover a large amount of skin, particularly burns, it is advised to use a gauze pad and clean the affected area 2-3 times per day, rubbing it until it bleeds just a little. This would be acceptable on the back, since I can't see the head wound in person, I don't know for sure. If the yellow I see is in fact puss covering the skull, then it would be difficult. Ideally that wound on the head needs the dead tissue around it cut back and stitched by the vet to promote proper heading. Ooops, that reason for the scrubbing until you see a little blood is that it promotes better healing by increasing the blood supply to the area encouraging it to heal better and fight infection because of the antibodies that the blood brings in with it.

I had a female, adult, get beaten very badly similar to that, another female got her collar off and went into her hole, she couldn't get away from her. Her head was split like that, larger actually, but not as much damage around the face, and her bad sloughed like you are talking about. Her back had the "white" underneath and it healed completely fine. Her head... the hole actually had a chunk of skin ripped off, there was not enough skin there to stitch it. If we pulled it up it would have been way to tight, so we decided the best thing to do was to leave it be and see how it healed on it's own. Put her on antibiotics. A year later, you couldn't see any scars and the only place you could even tell was that the fur on her head was uneven. Over time the skin recovered the opening and fur grew on it again. What I'm trying to get to here is that chins are amazing healers if given a little help of antibiotics and keeping their wounds clean.