Importing Angoras??

[ccchins]

Ok so we all know that Ritterspach has the game locked down on Angora Chins. My question is, Is it morally unethical in your opinion to have someone overseas purchase these chins with your money only to send them to you in the USA so you can breed them?

IMO I think it is. Two people have worked for years to perfect the breed and to take that away from them to make money in my eyes is absurd. Please comment with your thoughts. Thanks everyone!!


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[Pookinaround]

I think that the stress of shipping a chin both ways is an AWFUL thing to put the animal through. That being said I am sure that someone is bound to do it sooner or later... It is the people who just HAVE to have the latest and greatest that are doing this... If people overseas would just wise up and not pay these INSANE prices that Ritterspach demands my guess is that he just might start selling to US buyers... Something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay and if the market overseas dried up well that might be one thing, but as long as there are those willing to drop a few grand apiece for a chin with some longer than normal fur you can bet your bottom dollar that he isn't gonna let that cash cow go so easily. Most chin breeders are lucky to break even...not Ritterspach...

 

[Pookinaround]

Missed the edit but also wanted to add...what about Gunning with the Black Velvets, Sullivan with the beiges...probably most applicable would be the Baars with the Goldbars... see any of them do what Ritterspach did with the Angoras??? Just some food for thought...

 

[Becky]

It's not chinchillas.com that decides who they are sold to. It's the people breeding them in Texas.

 

[ccchins]

It's not chinchillas.com that decides who they are sold to. It's the people breeding them in Texas.

Tamara Tucker and Pamela Biggers are their names.

If you found some new mutation of a chinchilla and only sold it overseas would you be pissed that someone bought two from you under someone else then had them shipped back to the states? I am in a very weird predicament here with someone who I consider to be a well known chinchilla breeder. I think it is absurd and a horrible business practice and may end up burning bridges and causing problems for the local chapter.


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[ccchins]

Missed the edit but also wanted to add...what about Gunning with the Black Velvets, Sullivan with the beiges...probably most applicable would be the Baars with the Goldbars... see any of them do what Ritterspach did with the Angoras??? Just some food for thought...

That's my point exactly. Without Ritterspachs name those chins would be most likely available in the US. My hat goes off to Tamara and Pamela for having the brains for such an awesome business move! I am only worried about the inevitable repercussions that will most likely take place once everyone knows and Ritterspach or T&P find out.


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[Pookinaround]

The way I see it is this...yes Jim n the ladies in TX were smart to set the market in their favor...equally as smart is someone counteracting their move and I am shocked that it took this long to happen...happens in business all the time and since there is nothing stopping an American buyer from purchasing from a foreign seller I don't see where they are doing anything wrong... Like I said before the only part I don't like is the stress that the poor animals have to go through....

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

The angoras are already over here. People have already bought them overseas and brought them back to the US.

 

[ticklechin]

If they are not going to be pelts, then the stupid people who buy them for 1000s of dollars get what they deserve, a long haired fancy rat that will die and leave you a fur muff if you are lucky.

 

[saphire]

Mark Miller, Baars, Tamara and others have used Chinchilla.com. Anyone can call upon this service. The contact is Ritterspach... he and chinchilla.com are the middle men.

CCChins, I see and understand, but reality is money will always come first. When offered a higher price, some breeders will sell that animal that was promised to you and on top of the list for it. And the reverse is as true, where one will have you keep animals to turn around and buy elsewhere.

Quote ccchins: IMO I think it is. Two people have worked for years to perfect the breed and to take that away from them to make money in my eyes is absurd.

They have gotten credit for their work and the money.
It is not said that they have not been improved and well kept up in other countries. The reverse can be as true.
You get that here!

As far as I have seen, there are no bridges. Everyone does their own thing as they see fit for themselves.

Money is the driver.

NB: If they had been offered n the US to start off, they would not need to be shipped back for one to breed. So ethics for buying overseas and shipped back for breeding does not apply.

 

[Kathy_Bunny]

For one thing, I heard it was super expensive to get them over here (or back over here in a sense haha)

 

[chinsNdobermans]

I'm not surprised that this is happening and and like Jess, I'm surprised it hadn't happened sooner. People always need to have the new fad. Angoras, BDs, you name it.

 

[EBB]

Chill folks. This is simply business. You create something wonderful and then hold on to your little piece of the market for as long as you can. When black velvets first were sold they went for thousands of dollars, just like the angoras are now. They made them and it was pretty brilliant to keep them away from American buyers for as long as possible. Things sell better other places when they are advertised as not being available in the U.S, and once they are offered here, they'll still have the market cornered because they've been breeding then the longest and will likely have some pretty great ones developed that we haven't seen yet. If they decided to start selling in the U.S tomorrow, they would sell out in hours. It's brilliant! So find a trait you like, selectively breed and isolate it for several years until you have something you can consistently reproduce, and do what they did.Think! Hopefully we're thoughtful enough to capitalize on it then like they are doing now

 

[tunes]

Chill folks? I don't see where anyone got out of hand EBB. They were just commenting on the post.

 

[ccchins]

It's more about shipping an animal 12 hours to Europe then another 12 hours over here. That's a lot of stress on an animal. I don't care about the money. That's not why I breed. I breed to improve chinchillas and anyone who says they are in it for the money is doing things for the wrong reasons!!!! So please don't come to my thread and tell me to chill. Put yourself in a chinchillas POV and then you might change your mind!


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[6Dusters]

I don't see anything wrong with importing any animal back into the states as long as it were legal.
The chin world knows very well who is working with what specific line. And they are recognized for their outstanding work. Be it standards to angora.
I don't think anyone would put that kind of money into an animal and "hope" it all goes well in the shipping. I think you put too much human emotion into the shipping process CC. Perhaps the animals had a lay over period of weeks before shipping. Who knows...

On a lighter note: if chins came in soft pink, purple or light blue and I could get them here in under the same circumstances......I'm in! My "mad money" would be gone in a heart beat.

 

[Pookinaround]

Chins CAN get stressed out and die just from moving them from one home to another especially if it is a high strung animal...just depends on the individual... I tell customers all the time to just leave them alone for a few days to let them settle in... so I do agree with CC about the shipping part... Does that mean shipping them both ways is an automatic death sentence...of course not but it is a mighty big gamble with a mighty expensive chin...

 

[chinsNdobermans]

I don't think I agree, necessarily, with shipping an animal across the ocean twice. It is just plain stressful, and chins can be very sensitive. I myself don't even want to fly across the ocean... hate flying. However, I don't see any reason people in North America shouldn't be able to buy an animal born in Europe or wherever and have it shipped to them.

 

[ccchins]

However, I don't see any reason people in North America shouldn't be able to buy an animal born in Europe or wherever and have it shipped to them.

I am talking about paying someone over seas to purchase a chinchilla from chinchillas.com then paying them to ship that chinchilla back to the US once it gets to Europe. I think that is a tremendous amount of stress on any living thing.


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[saphire]

I agree this is not something I would do no matter the mutation. A back and forth trip to Europe is demanding on us imagine them.

I also have seen animals being brought in and some of them shown repeatedly in a short time. Some took it well enough and others did not had health issues come up.

Both are in the same basket. Depends on how you see things see the situation.

EBB - My hair is not on fire.