How much to save for a first colony!

[Zoaea]

I know prices can vary greatly for high quality animals and I know each person has their preference and goals. But thats also what I want to hear about!

My current goals are to pick up to 5 chinchillas for my first colony next year during show season. I have browsed all the breeding threads on this site, read through several member website sections on breeding, attended a show, with plans to attend the next one here in WA as well. And as always I expect to learn more daily for the rest of my life.

Now to the topic at hand, I have been trying to estimate how much I should save up in advance, I also like to plan for the highest cost rather than betting on super bargains. I want to include costs like the colony cage, weaning cages, grower cages, quarantine cages, first aid kit, and vet fund. My breeding goals are to make first place or higher show animals, and secondary to sell back to other breeders, with pet market as a final stop, its not about profit (good thing eh?).

I want a stupendous male, one that you'd have to bribe the breeder to sell, pure standard with top notch blue color, crisp white, and high density to pair with pure standard and mutation lines. wouldn't mind one a few years old thats proven or a young guy that is at least a year old.

The females I want to be at least first place quality, with emphasis on good color over extra size. I want chins that have been shown as I am still new to this. Maybe even extra for the registry. I plan to have at least 2 pure standards, and one TOV with #4 being a diff dominant mutation.

What I think it might cost:
Male: 500-700
Females (this im more shady on): 300-500 for std, 450-650 for mutations?
Vet fund: 1000$
Cages/supplies: Hand made? 600$

Totals: around 4000$

I must confess, my idea on prices is largely based on chinchilla.com prices. I cant tell if they are over priced or what it takes to get top animals. I also might start with just 2 females (std or TOV) and get more females as I get the feel for it. This will be my first colony, I want it to be right, It is also likely the only colony I'll be able to have.

Input, what you have done for your herds, and advice are wanted. =)

 

[tunes]

Um, yeah, .com is waaaaaay overpriced. You can find wonderful breeding animals for much less than that.

You should be able to get a really nice male for half of that and females around $200.00 for really nice ones. I have a tremendous standard male here that people have offered to buy from me over and over again and I paid $100.00 for him. If you're willing to ship in, it gives you more of an option as well.

If I might make a suggestion? Aim a little lower for your first colony. Five females with one male is a lot, especially if you have never bred chins before. Trying to get five breeding ready adult females together may be a bit more than you bargained for. If you want to breed colony style, why not try two trios? Then you can see how that works out, what they produce, etc., and decide if you want to go up from there. My largest colony right now is four females one male and it can be a challenge to figure out whose kit is whose sometimes. Colony moms will share kits so you have to be really careful to note who belongs to who and mark them immediately when they are born in some way until you can wean them.

 

[Dreamlite]

I agree. .com is always about double what a normal chin will cost you. I would stick with a trio. Its easier to introduce and handle kits. The more chins you try to place together the more chances that someone will fight. It also depends on how good your male is. Some guys can handle many females and others can't. I have a pinkwhite who won't breed unless he only has 1 female at a timw, and I also have a ebony who has 8 females in a run and they all gave birth within a month of eachother.

 

[Pookinaround]

I am not familar with your area but I think that you are estimating high for what nice animals may cost. $200 - $400 pr animal should get you some REALLY nice chins. One thing I think you should also factor in though is travel expenses in getting the animals. Just the other day I went up to OH which is only about 3 1/2 hours from me and I spent somewhere around $80 in gas plus over $30 in tolls...that adds up quick...and also adds to the bottom line cost.

 

[Zoaea]

Um, yeah, .com is waaaaaay overpriced. You can find wonderful breeding animals for much less than that.

You should be able to get a really nice male for half of that and females around $200.00 for really nice ones. I have a tremendous standard male here that people have offered to buy from me over and over again and I paid $100.00 for him. If you're willing to ship in, it gives you more of an option as well.

If I might make a suggestion? Aim a little lower for your first colony. Five females with one male is a lot, especially if you have never bred chins before. Trying to get five breeding ready adult females together may be a bit more than you bargained for. If you want to breed colony style, why not try two trios? Then you can see how that works out, what they produce, etc., and decide if you want to go up from there. My largest colony right now is four females one male and it can be a challenge to figure out whose kit is whose sometimes. Colony moms will share kits so you have to be really careful to note who belongs to who and mark them immediately when they are born in some way until you can wean them.

Hmm I had been thinking originally of 2 colonies, my husband stamped on my dreams and I only got him to agree to 5 animals. I think I might try a trio first anyway. I used to breed guineas in colonies, and I had runts survive better due to shared mothers, does this benefit in chins too? Also, should I aim for a run if i go with my 4 to 1 male? I do like the idea of colony vs run though for smaller groupings.

PS what do you mark your babies with if 2 moms birth close together?

 

[Sycamore Chins]

If you are definitely going to set aside a vet fund (which I think is awesome - kudos) - I'd find out how much an emergency (after hours, sunday afternoon type deal) c-section is in your area and save up that much plus a little extra. That way you have money for the worst case scenario.

If you've never bred before I'd even start off with just a pair or two. That way you can get experience with pregnancies, possibly hand feeding kits, etc. And make sure this is something you can/still want to do before you invest a whole lot of money into it. Sometimes bad experiences in breeding will show people it's just not for them.

Also, I breed in trios but separate out the females when I know they are pregnant. Saves me from the guessing game and freak accidents from the other female and male (plus I don't usually do breed-backs).

Handmade cages will (initially) probably cost you about twice what you think they will, and way more time than you think also - just from personal experience!

 

[ticklechin]

Start small and stay small for awhile, too many times we have people go from 0-60 chins and then dump them after a few months because of whatever reason.

 

[6Dusters]

I agree with Alicyn. Trio's need to be seperated before mom's litter. I learned that the hard way. A day or two after mom number one had kits....the second female started chasing them. Crabby pregnant chin! So I stay with pairs. A run is ideal. With a run set up, the male is most important before buying females for him.

My goal was to make it to the MCBA Nationals with a 1st place or better animal. I took my time and in four years I made that happen. If I don't do well at other shows due to age or prime issues, I don't worry. I know I am on the right path. You can't control mother nature and birthing.

If you are going to breed standards you should know about blue tip and black tipped animals. Pay special attention to fur density, length, clear clean coloring and veiling coverage when you purchase foundation animals.

Great males cost me between $100 to $300. Females $125 to $150.

Have extra cages for growers and animals that may require seperation. Be wise about breed backs. I agree starting small. Keep a note book, attend shows and pick the brains of several mentors.

 

[seachin]

Hi there, while I have not bred in colonies, from talking to ranchers about the practice I would agree with what others have said. Start small with the highest quality animals you can afford. Go to shows before you buy so you can do your best to buy quality animals so you don't have to trust what the breeders say is quality. I hope you are planning on going to the MCBA show I'm Bellevue this April, the Bradfords will be judging and there will be lots of learning and meeting new people amd local breeders.I just got back from ECBC Nationals and my head is still swimming with all the new info I have learned, and that's my 7th show. Also, absolutely do not forget that if you are breeding, you will need more than just the colony cage....you'll need weaning/growing cages as well. You may want to email local breeders to see what chins they may be bringing to the show to see if any would fit your parameters for high quality animals.
Ryan

 

[tunes]

I have never had a female in a trio or colony turn on a kit and I've been breeding that way for 10 years. I also never remove the females. If I worry about a breedback (and I have probably had a handful over the years) I remove the male. It's a lot easier getting the male back in than a female.

I don't like run breeding. I think it's nasty to make the females wear collars. I've seen some pretty damaged females, especially larger ones, after using colors (including getting legs caught).

I use a colored Sharpie marker and mark their ears or I might trim a tail. You have to refresh it once in a while, but it works and it's fast and easy.

 

[Spoof]

There are lots of breeders in your area. Go see the new Darkstar herd(OR). Go see Linda Clark (Seattle) or Sue Irvin (Snoqualmie).

They represent the different types of breeding, Darkstar uses Runs, Sue used to use colony caging only (she might have changed) and Linda Clark uses both.

Darkstar will have the largest variety of chinchillas available and by seeing all of the breeders chins you will start to develop an eye for what you like.

Ronda in Hermiston, OR has both colony and run cages for sale. Getting a four hole run would run you $50 or one of the big colony cages with a pan is $40. Gas is what will cost you. These are cages that have been used for years but are still in very good condition.

Vet fund: Talk to these breeders. With the exception of DarkStar the others have been in breeding for over 15 years. They will each have their own opinions and give you an honest idea of what to expect. Do not buy any chins until after you have visited everyone. They all have quality chinchillas but very different herds and ideas of quality. Buy them at the upcoming show. (Have whomever you like the best bring you some or just buy the available ones). There should be a show soon and one again this fall.

The biggest thing is making connections with the people who are going to be there to help you.

I would start with two females and one male. You will have a lot of babies in no time. Good rule of thumb is to keep twice as many holding cages as you have breeding cages. So if you have three breeding cages keep nine empty holding cages. Alternatively you can have a male weaning cage and a female weanling cage in separate areas. I do this and them move my babies out at six months to individual cages if they have not sold. It very much depends on the market in your area. Some chins take over a year to sell.

Good luck!

 

[Zoaea]

So many responses <3 I work the night shift so I can reply when I wake up. But I wanted to add, what are some pit falls you guys ran into when ever you started and how would you avoid them if you could go back?

PS I will be at the Beleview show and I wont be buying till at least the fall.

 

[Zoaea]

$200 - $400 pr animal should get you some REALLY nice chins. One thing I think you should also factor in though is travel expenses in getting the animals.

Hmm so It should only be 400-600 if I had to pay for shipping the animals to boot? I think I'll aim for local animals to save on shipping, unless I decide to get a set from someone on the east coast. =x

Start small and stay small for awhile, too many times we have people go from 0-60 chins and then dump them after a few months because of whatever reason.

I plan to start small! Plus the breeder of my beauty queen (whom I still talk with often) said that even when she had 10 breeders she was swamped with babies.

If you are going to breed standards you should know about blue tip and black tipped animals. Pay special attention to fur density, length, clear clean coloring and veiling coverage when you purchase foundation animals.

Great males cost me between $100 to $300. Females $125 to $150.

Thank you, you had a lot of advice in your post, I should be attending at least 2 if not more shows before I buy the animals, and one of my plans is to pump every one for information. Especially on blue vs black coat, which is still confusing to me, and how to tell with my own eyes that and the other qualities looked for in chinchillas! ^_^

Start small with the highest quality animals you can afford. Go to shows before you buy so you can do your best to buy quality animals so you don't have to trust what the breeders say is quality. I hope you are planning on going to the MCBA show I'm Bellevue this April, the Bradfords will be judging and there will be lots of learning and meeting new people amd local breeders.
Ryan

Were you at the last Bellevue show with the white chinchillas? (Ryan Chin?) I already asked for the day off in April and I'm counting down the days impatiently for the show. =D I hope to make some local friendships with other breeders in the area too. Thank you for the great advice about looking at everyone's chins first, I am impulsive so it is good for me to keep myself in check.

I don't like run breeding. I think it's nasty to make the females wear collars.

I use a colored Sharpie marker and mark their ears or I might trim a tail. You have to refresh it once in a while, but it works and it's fast and easy.

Thanks for the tips. PS I also feel the collars seem like an unnecessary risk when I have a small amount of animals anyway. Plus it seems like it is more likely a female that gets loose would kill a neighbor than if they are already introduced. If/when I become more solid on using colony type caging can I PM you with any detailed questions about that set up type?

There are lots of breeders in your area. Go see the new Darkstar herd(OR). Go see Linda Clark (Seattle) or Sue Irvin (Snoqualmie).

I would start with two females and one male. You will have a lot of babies in no time.

I've already talked to Linda on the phone, she seems really nice and I hope to be able to visit her a few times to see how she runs things and maybe help out for some hands on. If she does use both style of housing I can really see up front which I prefer too!

After several peoples advice I think I will aim for a pair or trio rather than 5 to start with, then I can build my chin empire from there. I still have at least a year to plan more details and pick up more knowledge on animal quality!

I took notes from all the details in your posts, I did trim down my quotes, but only so there is not a wall of text. Thank you all so much for your time.

New estamates:
Male: up too 500 w/shipping
Females (x2): 450 total
Vet savings: need to call the one Linda recommended for c'section price
Cages: Ambush Ronda... ~500+ supplies?

 

[Riven]

I never had a female have an incident with a collar really. Occasionally one would get one stuck in her mouth, but it's important to check them often.

I also don't remove animals from colonies and I've never had a lot of issues with breed backs or worn down females in my colonies.

Unless you're trapped for time or travel, I would not limit to local, you might find animals you want anywhere! My current favorite standard female came out of Mexico!



If I could start over, I'd tell myself not to skimp. More often than not, unless you're getting an awesome deal because someone wants to help you out... you get exactly what you pay for. I think it's better to shoot high and be happy you over saved.

 

[6Dusters]

My mistake in the beginning was not fully understanding the details of quality and color. Attending several more shows and making notes was just what I needed.
Have a mentor for breeding. Kits can be so difficult if they have problem. Expect deaths.

In my notebook I have a weight section, kit care section, statis section, pedigree pages, year reference note to place with kits birthdays, poo problem section, mentor contacts, notes pulled out of various MCBA magazines with articles, section for all kits ( how many, what parents, how they did at show, who died, weights etc). I add to my book when I see items important to me posted on the forum that I think are very important to health.

Buy a scale. I've found its the only way to know if the animal is sick or pregnant.
As a small hobby breeder that has helped me greatly.
I attended the Shindig last year and one topic was teeth. I learned a great deal. Sadly I lost one to teeth not long ago. Based on what I learned I was able to make the correct call to have her put down. I did not have her long enough for her to have any offspring. It happens...
Glad your going to take your time. Well done.....

 

[JoAnne]

Yes, you did get a lot of responses. Just a couple more You may not have to spend a lot on travel. We have sold animals in Seattle more than once and in some cases picked dust or cages up at Rhonda's and delivered them to the buyer. We won't be at the show this year, but Bradford's are great at determining color and would be able to point out the difference between the blue tipped and black tipped. Good luck.
JoAnne

 

[bchins]

Looks like you've had a TON of great input so far!! I have a feeling your vet emergency fund may need to be a bit more, but it also depends on how fast you think you can rebuild it once it's used? I've heard of c-sections costing close to $1000 themselves. I have had surgeries cost anywhere from $150-$750, none of those being c-sections. If you get caught where the surgery has to be done on a weekend and as an ER visit, that'll rack up the price a ton. Like others said it is best to just check with the vet you plan to go with, as prices vary a ton from vet to vet.

 

[seachin]

Were you at the last Bellevue show with the white chinchillas? (Ryan Chin?) I already asked for the day off in April and I'm counting down the days impatiently for the show. =D I hope to make some local friendships with other breeders in the area too. Thank you for the great advice about looking at everyone's chins first, I am impulsive so it is good for me to keep myself in check.

Yes, that's me (Ryan Chinn of Chinn's Chilla Ranch) in Renton. Yes, I have the perfect name for this, don't you think? Anyhow, I was there and remember saying hi but like with many shows, it was super busy! If I am there at the next show, you are welcome to sit next to me (or any other breeder you feel comfortable with) and teach you about what the judges are doing or talking about. Shopping around cannot be emphasized more. Once you get more experience, you can know for sure that a breeder is truly selling you an animal you want/need versus just trusting the breeder. It helps to see a few shows (both MCBA and ECBC if you can make it to those) so you see who does well and in what colors so you know who has good animals. Also, beware of breeders who pressure you to buy this or that animal. Good animals should be able to sell themselves if the buyers know the quality of the animals so nobody should be pressuring anybody to buy. Ask other breeders about the reputations of a breeder you are considering purchasing from...more than a few people saying the same things (good or bad) probably has some basis. If a breeder tells you flat out "don't buy from this breeder or that breeder," we wary of the animals THEY may be trying to get you to buy (consder the source). While this is a business, I think if I have a buyer who comes and looks at my animals, I want to know they are getting the animal they want and fits with their breeding program, and hope they have seen other breeder's animals to know that mine have the qualities the buyer wants. Buy from someone respected and known by many to care for their animals well, have good breeding practices and if possible, has their animals judged at shows with good placements, will help you start out. Great animals judged by knowledgable judges helps both breeder (by knowing how to improve their herds) and future breeders (as show placements help you understand the quality of the animals you are considering). I went to 3 shows (both MCBA and ECBC in California), talked to several of the biggest rancers in the business and developed relationships with mentors who are well respected and known to have good lines from those breeders before I bought my first chins. Additionally, definitely spend the most money you can on your males as they are spreading their genes amongst more animals, so you want to start out with high quality.

 

[Riven]

I agree wholeheartedly with Ryan's post regarding breeders who put down or push certain other breeders. I personally have no animals to offer at this time, and don't plan on having much, but I'm glad to share my personal experiences with people looking for animals or make recommendations to people I've seen do well or that I've had good or bad experiences with.

In the end the best thing you can do is buy a good quality animal that you are happy with from someone you trust enough to give you accurate information. This is not saying you have to see that person for the rest of your life every day. I've bought some wonderful animals from people I didn't care for personally. One thing that makes me cautious is people who are selling animals for high prices, yet buying from other people. It makes me wonder why they are buying new animals if the ones they are selling are so great? I do understand that sometimes it's a line limitation or what not, but it does make me wonder. I like to ask why they aren't keeping that animal for their own breeding lines.

 

[Pookinaround]

Zoaea, You have been around the forum for a while so you have probably seen different people's good/bad experience stories. The ups and downs that you will experience as a breeder are all too incredibly true! As a fairly new breeder myself I have already experienced both ends of the spectrum and it can certainly be a roller coaster. I used to think that a lot of the bad things you hear about wouldn't happen to me...until some of them did! The best advice that I can give is to do the best that you can with the hand that you are dealt and remember nothing is ever guaranteed. Appreciate each success and try to learn from each mistake. That is all anyone can do... Having good chinnie friends helps A LOT!