Horse questions

[Brittney]

My friend's parents breed thoroughbreds for racing. Their 2 year old, newly gelded male just came back from being broke and gelded. He is sweet and can be handled with some patience and work, but he bites, and bites hard. No sure how to break him of the habit. We have started working with him on the mounting part, but once one of us goes to mount him, he reaches back and bites us in the thigh or side. I can almost see it now: running down the race track and he stops to bite the jockey.... great.
Any tips would be helpful. The guy who breeds them just sent him to a 90 breaking course, which really only halter broke him and gave him minimal manners. He also came back with a newly found fascination with his tongue. He sticks it out almost constantly and bobs his head.. What is going on with this horse? I'm trying my hardest to help my friend out and work with him since I grew up with horses, but the biting thing is a new one for me.

Also, along the lines of biting. Not sure what he did to himself or what he did it on, but while I was giving him the once over for health issues, I noticed his gums over one tooth looked really inflamed and there was a bunch of hay under the gum. It almost looks like he may have found a nail somewhere in a board and scraped his gum back.. How long should it usually take to heal with something like that? I can certainly give him a penicillin injection if needed, just don't know if these sort of things heal on their own or not.

Thanks!

Tongue thing

Tooth issue

 

[addictedtochins]

Do you work him on the lounge line to burn off some energy first?

 

[LovinHedgies]

IMO if the horse is biting he is trying to tell you something. Has he seen a chiropractor? Maybe his back is hurting and when you mount you are aggravating his sore back. I know the racing world regularly starts their horses at 2 and even younger, but at that age they are still growing and need constant assessment of their physical status. My horse only attempts to "bite" me if I am doing something that bothers her, its her way of saying "stop". Also my best guess at the sticking the tongue out and bobbing the head is that he is stressed. He is finding maladaptive ways of copings (like stall vices). Maybe it would be beneficial to spend some undemanding time with him - like just sitting and reading a book or magaizine in his pen. Let him catch you and decide that he is ready to learn some new things. Whenever my lady seems stressed or after a hard lesson I always make sure to spend undemanding time with her and give her a day off.
I don't know about the tooth - definately should see a vet. The tooth problem is probably contributing to his odd behaviors also.
Good luck with your guy - he looks like a cutie, I would love to see more pictures

 

[eroomlorac]

The tongue issue is probably related to the tooth issue. He needs a vet. Also, I question some trainer's techniques. Some are quite harsh and not the kind I would want for my own horse. What kind of racing does this guy breed for? Not many race horses are just being saddle broke at the age of two and not many are gelded at all. I googled this and thought it might be something to try. Make sure the saddle fits properly and the bit fits her mouth well, too.


Move your horse to a safe mounting area. When mounting, some horses will try to bite you, so by standing in the central position, you can keep an eye on both ends. Hold your reins in your left hand ready to mount, ensure the rein closest to you is shorter so if your horse tries to nip he can't reach. Mount up and check the girth. If your horse tries to bite during the moment of suspension of mounting, stand back down and check the reins so they are tight enough and try again, each time growl at him and wait until he has his ears back to listening mode or until he has stopped looking at you.

 

[Brittney]

He breeds for racing in New Mexico. He breeds them there and sends them back once they are broke to race for money. We aren't trying to make him into a trail horse by any means through working with him. We are using a racing saddle and just trying to get him accustom to someone mounting right now. Seems to be his biggest issue we need to get past before we can proceed. Seems like the guy wasted a bunch of money breaking him when he goes back to being a spaz. And he bites even when no one is trying to mount. We could be standing next to him and he will reach over and bite or run up to s and bite when we enter his area. And I will definitely have them call out a vet.

As for the lounging, he doesn't know what to do or how to get started.

 

[LovinHedgies]

If your willing to take the time it takes to take this horse to his fullest potential I recommend using Parelli Natural Horsemanship techniques - many people in the professional world are using the Parelli ground techniques and have seen amazing results. Start with the seven games and see how he does, I'll bet you will see a big change in his attitude and willingness.

 

[monarch]

Racing horses will never be trained like a trail horse. Like addictedtochins said, you need to tire him out first by running him on a line, then mount him. He will never completely settle down though, if he's a thouroughbred he will be high strung and excitable. That's what they're bred for.

I say have a vet look him over, especially his teeth. But I've trained a horse that was a biter, and nothing we did would ever change her habits. She would bite significantly less after vigorous exercise though.

I've rarely heard of gelding a horse for racing.

 

[eroomlorac]

He breeds for racing in New Mexico. He breeds them there and sends them back once they are broke to race for money. We aren't trying to make him into a trail horse by any means through working with him. We are using a racing saddle and just trying to get him accustom to someone mounting right now. Seems to be his biggest issue we need to get past before we can proceed. Seems like the guy wasted a bunch of money breaking him when he goes back to being a spaz. And he bites even when no one is trying to mount. We could be standing next to him and he will reach over and bite or run up to s and bite when we enter his area. And I will definitely have them call out a vet.

As for the lounging, he doesn't know what to do or how to get started.

Again, I would question the training technique used on this horse when it was sent away. Make sure the saddle fits properly. A saddle is fitted in regards to the size, shape and width of a horses back. Whether it's a racing saddle or a trail saddle.

As for lunging a horse (not lounging) start out in a small arena with a lunge line held short. Stand several feet away from the horse positioned behind it's shoulders. Hold the lunge line in the hand nearest the horses head and wave your other hand to move the horse forward. He'll get the hang of it. Start slow and small circles gradually widening the circle as he learns the technique. My horse was half thoroughbred/half appaloosa. She looked and acted like a thoroughbred. It was always a good idea to tire her a little before I took her out on the trail until she got older.

Racing horses will never be trained like a trail horse. Like addictedtochins said, you need to tire him out first by running him on a line, then mount him. He will never completely settle down though, if he's a thouroughbred he will be high strung and excitable. That's what they're bred for.

I say have a vet look him over, especially his teeth. But I've trained a horse that was a biter, and nothing we did would ever change her habits. She would bite significantly less after vigorous exercise though.

I've rarely heard of gelding a horse for racing.

I've never heard of a horse being gelded as a race horse, either. That's why I questioned what kind of race horse.



Let me also add, some horses just aren't cut out to do what we think/want/expect them to do. Maybe this particular horse would be better off NOT being a race horse but would do better with one on one attention with someone who is willing to just love him up and ride him for fun. Maybe the stress is more than this particular horse can handle.

 

[eroomlorac]

Oops.....missed the time to edit.

There are several Youtube videos on lunging a horse.

 

[minrex]

If your willing to take the time it takes to take this horse to his fullest potential I recommend using Parelli Natural Horsemanship techniques - many people in the professional world are using the Parelli ground techniques and have seen amazing results. Start with the seven games and see how he does, I'll bet you will see a big change in his attitude and willingness.

Please do research on Parelli's techniques (and not just by looking at his website) before you decide to use them. His techniques definitely don't work for everyone.

 

[LovinHedgies]

In my experiences the Parelli techniques work for anyone willing to put in the time and use them correctly - I board at a barn that is full of people who have taken the time and have amazing horses and some who just half-*** it and get frustrated. There are definately many misconception of Parelli techniques and without taking the time to research and study the techniques many people have been using them incorrectly and ultimately in my opinion inhumanely. I was skeptical at first, but now that I am level 3 I am overwhelmed by the strides my horse has taken - she is a completely different horse and not a robot. She has her personality and I can use her engery instead of just draining it.
Minrex - did you have a bad experience with Parelli? You don't have to share if you don't want to, I'm just curious.
I agree with eroomlorac that maybe this horse is not cut out for racing. And if he was sent away for training and still doesn't know how to "lunge" I would question the trainer.

 

[Ash]

I agree with eroomlorac that maybe this horse is not cut out for racing. And if he was sent away for training and still doesn't know how to "lunge" I would question the trainer.

Unfortunately, many racer "trainers" don't teach horses anything about being a sane, rideable horse. To them, training consists of throwing a saddle on the back, and making the horse run around a track at top speed. They aren't taught to walk with a rider, trot with a rider, or even canter. They are trained at full-out gallop, and that's that. My aunt worked on a TB farm managing it, and had to convince the owner to allow her to train the horses in ground manners and basic riding before sending them elsewhere, so they weren't "ruined" for riding, and even then, a lot of them lost that training at the "trainers". It's quite rare to find a track horse that you don't have to re-train from step 1.

And it's not unheard of to geld male racers if you don't expect them to do anything, just want to get a few small purses out of them before selling them. There are people who regret it later in the end, though.

 

[Megan]

When dealing with Throughbreds you can't always think of them as a regular, normal horse. They are a breed of their own.

Through my research on the breed they normally do NOT get much work on a lunge line, as ash has stated. When purchasing a throughbred off the track, or that has been trained to race but hasn't always assume the animal has NO lunge line training, and start from fresh.

Again, through my research I have learned that bad habits are normal for this breed. It includes biting, kicking, and other habits that "regular" horses are broke out of. The reason for this the handlers and trainers at the tracks are very experienced. All that horse needs to do is run its race. It doesn't have tie nicely, groom well, etc. As long as the horse does its job--they don't worry about biting or kicking. This can also be from being bored. Race horses do not get pasture time. They are kept stalled unless it's time to train.

Even though he has not raced, he was trained to race. I suggest purchasing the book "Beyond the track: Retraining the thoroughbred from racehorse to riding horse" by Anna Morgan Ford. It may not hurt to hook up with a trainer that has experience in retraining these guys.

Remember thoroughbreds are big babies. They need A LOT of praise throughout the retraining process.

I am currently retraining my OTTB(off the track throughbred) that I purchased earlier this year. He's been off the track for a few years but has had no real training on how to be a regular horse.

Thankfully he must have gotten a trainer who DID lunge him, as he knows it quite well, and also does not have the biting/kicking habits. We started at the basics-- leading, having hime tie, lunging, etc.

Racing horses will never be trained like a trail horse

I disagree with this as well. Many ex-racing horses go on to be eventers, dressage horses and yes, trail horses. Depends on the temper. Handsome is by far not "hot headed". He is a very smart horse. Just gotta out think him.

 

[Ash]

I am going to agree with Megan on the disagreeing with "racing horses will never be trail horses". We had an ex-racer who had a pocket puppy personality. He was gelded, and was sweet as could be. Anyone could ride him, and anywhere. He was, quite literally, bomb proof. He came home from the track like this, surprisingly. He also didn't get raced a lot.

My friend takes in and re-trains ex-racers. Her TB stud is an absolute BABY. He can be ridden just about anywhere, and although she has had to train him to walk on grass, hills, across water, etc, he is a great horse for pleasure and trail. TJ is so sweet, even I can ride him, and I'm a green rider. I also know quite a few people who've retrained their TBs and can and do trail ride them, and even them. They just take work and patience, and a lot of love and understanding.

 

[monarch]

Maybe they weren't very successful race horses? Also, once you've gelded a horse, a lot of his spitfire kind of dissipates.

A true, high energy race horse, I don't think they would be able to be trusted on a trail with green riders until at least later in life when he calms down.

 

[Megan]

I know handsome wasn't a "money maker"(however his sire and dams sire were very successful horses) however they kept him racing for 5 years, so he had to be doing something right. We are in the process of fully retraining him, and so far he seems to be pretty darn good horse.

I know rescues that specialize in OTTB get anything from the "duds" to the very successful horses that were gelded, and are of no use to the owners/trainers. Many of them are retrained and then adopted out as eventing/trail/pony club horses.

It can be done, but it takes the right combination of trainer and owner. Someone that is dedicated and knows it won't be a few months, possibly many months or a few years to fully get the horse where others are within months.

Don't get me wrong, there are horses that will never make a trail horse--but that is true for other breeds as well. Keep in mind the diet a race horse has been given. Very high protein, lots of sweet feed. Put it on a more balanced feed, and that is going to help out a lot in "calming down the TB". Also, many of them (and yes, it's legal in the US) are on steroids. Take them off the steroids, and you have a calmer, easier to handle horse simply from that.

To the OP: What do they want to do with this horse? Do they want to continue his racing career? If not, have they thought about bringing in an experienced TB trainer? If they want to continue the racing career many times they'll find that biting, kicking and other bad habits are simply over looked. As long as the jockey and trainers can mount the horse and work him there is no need for them to take the time to fix the bad habits.

 

[Brittney]

He hasn't started racing yet. He was just sent to someone to "break" him and to geld him. At the beginning of next year, he is going to be sent to New Mexico and get started into racing. Not sure how they are going to do it though.

 

[Ash]

Maybe they weren't very successful race horses? Also, once you've gelded a horse, a lot of his spitfire kind of dissipates.

A true, high energy race horse, I don't think they would be able to be trusted on a trail with green riders until at least later in life when he calms down.

TJ brought in profit, but injurred himself. Not all thoroughbreds are psychotic horses that do nothing but run all out, even racers.