ticklechin
Well-known member
???? anyone seen this and can help? That looks like something a chin would chew until removed and only used if a chin is wearing a collar.
Horrible vet visit - extremely frustrated!
- Thread starter Penelope88
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Penelope88
Active member
Okay I held her down and my fiance ripped it off. He said it was wrapped ridiculously tight. Half her leg is covered in dried blood. Poor thing. =[
ticklechin
Well-known member
Poor baby, it does not sound like the blood drawing was a breeze!
Chula
Wood Widdler
I am so infuriated after reading this! I sincerely hope everything works out for you and I am anxious to know the outcome.
I'm frustrated for you too! If it was me, I would be wanting to know what happened when the blood was drawn. Lady had blood drawn twice, she was sedated both times, and I never saw a mark on her.
The problem with vet schools is that a lot of times they have the med students working on the animals to practice. Every time I've gone to the U of I I've insisted that the actual exotic vet did any procedures. The most I'll let a student do is weigh her and listen to her heartbeat, after that they have to observe. I know the point is for them to get the experience, but not with my pets. I've wasted enough time with certified vets who can't tell a tail from a whisker, so I don't mess around. They may charge you more, but they need to respect your feelings, because it's your pet.
The problem with vet schools is that a lot of times they have the med students working on the animals to practice. Every time I've gone to the U of I I've insisted that the actual exotic vet did any procedures. The most I'll let a student do is weigh her and listen to her heartbeat, after that they have to observe. I know the point is for them to get the experience, but not with my pets. I've wasted enough time with certified vets who can't tell a tail from a whisker, so I don't mess around. They may charge you more, but they need to respect your feelings, because it's your pet.
fanofdmb84
it IS called 'fur'-niture
Having worked in an E-vet, the cast padding and vetrap ("band-aid") over the blood draw site is just normal procedure after a blood draw, although maybe not so normal on an exotic. We always told people to remove them when they got home. It was more so the animal wouldn't start bleeding from jumping around in the meantime. They can be unwrapped, but it is much easier to cut them off with a scissors. Pulling just tightens the stuff (as you found out).
I'm so sorry to hear you've been having such awful experiences!
I'm so sorry to hear you've been having such awful experiences!
3CsMommy
My babies Rock!
EMT scissors/bandage scissors go right through that stuff, but it seems odd that they didn't tell you when it would be okay to take it off. 
Sorry to hear about the wasted trip, though at least this time the vet didn't try to stuff her full of sugary crap "food" and tell you you're being paranoid. It's frustrating, but it's a frustrating step in the right direction.
Sorry to hear about the wasted trip, though at least this time the vet didn't try to stuff her full of sugary crap "food" and tell you you're being paranoid. It's frustrating, but it's a frustrating step in the right direction.
Penelope88
Active member
I was probably just being a paranoid, over-protective chin mom. It just irritated me that they never even mentioned it, she could have chewed a piece off and swallowed it and then I would have had an even bigger problem. She's still pretty mad, and she hasn't really come out of her tube since last night. I'm gonna call the last few vets around here to see if anyone closer will see her and if not I'll schedule the CT at Cornell for Friday. They mentioned that if they find anything, they will trim her teeth or pull teeth if necessary while still under anesthesia. Is that standard treatment for all teeth problems? Sorry for all the questions, I'm just so worried about her and I hate that I can't be there during all this.
ticklechin
Well-known member
Unless the teeth are rotten and will fall out otherwise, do not pull teeth. When a tooth is removed due to malo it will only make matters worse, I have been there, tried that and it does not work I can tell you with 100% certainty. The ajacent teeth will tip into the empty space, the opposing teeth will drift downward into the space and the occlusal plane will be disrupted and the chin will not be able to chew. Periodontal disease will also occur due to the impaction of food forced under the gums due to the missing teeth.
Also tooth removal of "healthy" teeth often leads to broken jaws and broken maxilla, a death sentance.
Also tooth removal of "healthy" teeth often leads to broken jaws and broken maxilla, a death sentance.
mishellyshel
Chin Slave
completely agree..........dont let them pull. and let them know that up front that you do not want any teeth pulled. if they trim, make sure they give you the metacam for pain and prepare to continue to handfeed.
are they charging you twice?? they should only be charging you once, it was their fault that the CT machine was unavailable. Also, make sure you call first before making the trip up there again friday.
Brittany is right about the training hospitals. they usually are very good but sometimes they allow simple procedures to be done by students. At this point......your chinnie has been thru so much, i would request that a regular vet perform any procedures on friday as to reduce the stress. you can give your chin a small pinch of chamomile flowers,if you have that available to you. I use them in my herbal mix. like in humans it is said to have a calming effect. Justa thought if you have a health food store nearby. I could send you some but it wouldnt get there til friday. PM me if interested. I am in Jersey, so by mail it should only take a day. I have a chin with Malo, diagnosed 2.5 years ago. he is on daily meds. I was able to slow down the process of the roots growing. I dont know if it was the change in his diet or the addition of the herbs/lifeline but he had been holding his own. I know that can change in a minute but there is hope. and you are doing everything you can do for her.
are they charging you twice?? they should only be charging you once, it was their fault that the CT machine was unavailable. Also, make sure you call first before making the trip up there again friday.
Brittany is right about the training hospitals. they usually are very good but sometimes they allow simple procedures to be done by students. At this point......your chinnie has been thru so much, i would request that a regular vet perform any procedures on friday as to reduce the stress. you can give your chin a small pinch of chamomile flowers,if you have that available to you. I use them in my herbal mix. like in humans it is said to have a calming effect. Justa thought if you have a health food store nearby. I could send you some but it wouldnt get there til friday. PM me if interested. I am in Jersey, so by mail it should only take a day. I have a chin with Malo, diagnosed 2.5 years ago. he is on daily meds. I was able to slow down the process of the roots growing. I dont know if it was the change in his diet or the addition of the herbs/lifeline but he had been holding his own. I know that can change in a minute but there is hope. and you are doing everything you can do for her.
Jenn
ZooKeeper
wow, what a frustrating ordeal for you! I'm such an impatient person, and this waiting game with the vet would drive me over the edge! Best of luck with your chin, you need some sent your way! I hope the CT doesn't show anything, but I know you are ready for answers. Good luck and keep us posted.
Penelope88
Active member
UGH! It's not bad vet germs in the water ... it's just plain stupidity. Its taken 3 days and 6 phone calls to get the results from the bloodwork. I guess everything is good except protein and glucose are elevated. They can't get me in anytime soon for CT. I found another hospital with 3 chinchilla "specialists" that will see her Monday. They said they try do x-rays while awake first, to minimize putting the animal under multiple times if treatment is necessary (she made it sound like they had a contraption or something to hold them still?)- has anyone had any successful xrays taken that way? I just don't know how much more of this I can take. I'm doing everything I can but it's just not enough and my heart is breaking that Penelope has to suffer because people are stupid or don't believe that I know what I'm talking about.
ticklechin
Well-known member
I have had full body x-rays done while awake but not dental x-rays. The usual way my vet does it is the chin is put under, the oral exam performed, the x-rays taken and evaluated and the filing completed, all in one visit.
*Hugs* for being such a patient Mom!
*Hugs* for being such a patient Mom!
mishellyshel
Chin Slave
since it is extremely difficult for even the most experienced vet to look into a chins mouth just for an oral exam, why would they not just put her under, do the exam, do the xrays and do any filing or whatever. why would they do a dental xray while awake to just put them under to do an oral exam.
really makes no sense to me.
have you checked all the files here for vets in your area? how far is Chemung from the Jersey border??? or is it closer to another states border than you can check.
I really hate to see her go thru more of these untrained people playing guessing games. its aggrevating to read, so i can't imagine how frustrated & worried you are!
really makes no sense to me.
have you checked all the files here for vets in your area? how far is Chemung from the Jersey border??? or is it closer to another states border than you can check.
I really hate to see her go thru more of these untrained people playing guessing games. its aggrevating to read, so i can't imagine how frustrated & worried you are!
Penelope88
Active member
I was afraid it would just be a waste, it didn't make a lot of sense not to put her under but I don't really have a ton of options at this point, I'm pretty much reaching for anything. Well I live literally on the NY/PA border. I'm basically right in the middle if you drew a circle around Ithaca, Corning/Elmira, & Binghamton/Vestal NY. I've looked through the vet pages here and didn't find anything. It's just about 4 hours to get anywhere - Trenton NYC Philadelphia Albany
My story
Hi Penelope,
I wanted to share my experience with you because it sounds very similar to yours and I was dealing with vets that really didn't understand or care about the situation either. Almost 2 years ago now my Penny got a watery eye. I of course thought it was an eye infection as well. Took her to the vet and they gave me the eye drops. About 6 months later I went back to the vet because I had been through another bottle of eye drops and the infection still seemed to be coming back on occasion. Keep in mind at this point there were NO indications of anything more serious but I was being cautious.
At that point my vet said it was most likely nothing but if I wanted to I could get xrays done. Since we were already there I agreed to letting them put her under to do the xrays and see exactly what was going on. They took her back to do the xrays while I waited in the lobby. When they brought me back into the office they showed me the xrays and confirmed that Penny had the Very early stages of malo. When I asked what my options were the vet basically told me there was nothing they could do other than pulling/trimming teeth. She said she would give me one more bottle of eye drops but that I should bring Penny back in after that so they can "see how the disease is progressing" (nevermind the fact that they get $100 just for me walking in the door with her because she's an exotic).
Now, I don't know how stressful it is for anyone else to take a chin to the vet but I just couldn't accept that answer. Right away when I got home I started researching everything I could on the disease, how it progresses, what people think helps, etc. I learned anything and everything I could because I couldn't believe trimming and pulling teeth could be the only possible way. First of all never ever attempt pulling teeth. Chin jaws are so brittle that to me personally it seems way too easy for something to go very wrong in that situation. The more I read about trimming it honestly seemed like a crapshoot as to if it did more harm and stress than good. Not onyl was it pricey but nothing I read actually convinced me that it had a huge impact in the long run.
I did discover that supposedly Vitamin C and Calcium supplements help. I started giving mine a chewable Vitamin C tablet twice a week and adding Calcium powder to their food right away.
Then my vet really made me mad about 3 months after Penny was diagnosed and said she wouldn't give me more of the eye drops until I came in. I pretty much argued with the girl on the phone that I didn't understand what the point in me constantly bringing her in when I know how this is all going to end. And I said I didn't understand why they wouldn't try to make the animal as comfortable in the meantime as they could.
After spending nearly 2 hours at Walgreens that night looking for some kind of eye drops I could safely use on Penny and reading every single label I actually found one. It's an eye flush that contains 99.9% purified water and that's it. No other mystery ingredients or salt to deal with.
I started putting eye drops in her eyes myself with a small clean syringe every night. The eye infections never came back. She occasionally has watery eyes but past that she has been ok. Just this week she's taking a turn for the worse but I truely think my own research and efforts have kept her alive a whole lot longer than 1) the vet thought she would be 2) if I had continued treatment and stressed her out.
My point is this. As hard as it might be to accept, you already know how this is going to end. I did as soon as I saw Penny's xrays. It's pretty much beyond your control when you've done everything right and even caught the disease 2 years before most other people would. Unfortunately even doing everything right you're fighting genetics at that point. Once you have the diagnoses the best thing you can do is exhaust every option to make them comfortable for as long as they have left. When Penny had to go to the vet she would get so mad and scared that she wouldn't even poop in the carrier! I knew it wasn't going to be in her best interest to keep lugging her back and forth. I'm not saying it's not the best option for some people but I just know it wasn't for us. I was able to hold on to Penny for an additional 2 years. Even though I know she's near the end now, the biggest thing you have to do isknow in your heart you did what you felt was best for them.
Hi Penelope,
I wanted to share my experience with you because it sounds very similar to yours and I was dealing with vets that really didn't understand or care about the situation either. Almost 2 years ago now my Penny got a watery eye. I of course thought it was an eye infection as well. Took her to the vet and they gave me the eye drops. About 6 months later I went back to the vet because I had been through another bottle of eye drops and the infection still seemed to be coming back on occasion. Keep in mind at this point there were NO indications of anything more serious but I was being cautious.
At that point my vet said it was most likely nothing but if I wanted to I could get xrays done. Since we were already there I agreed to letting them put her under to do the xrays and see exactly what was going on. They took her back to do the xrays while I waited in the lobby. When they brought me back into the office they showed me the xrays and confirmed that Penny had the Very early stages of malo. When I asked what my options were the vet basically told me there was nothing they could do other than pulling/trimming teeth. She said she would give me one more bottle of eye drops but that I should bring Penny back in after that so they can "see how the disease is progressing" (nevermind the fact that they get $100 just for me walking in the door with her because she's an exotic).
Now, I don't know how stressful it is for anyone else to take a chin to the vet but I just couldn't accept that answer. Right away when I got home I started researching everything I could on the disease, how it progresses, what people think helps, etc. I learned anything and everything I could because I couldn't believe trimming and pulling teeth could be the only possible way. First of all never ever attempt pulling teeth. Chin jaws are so brittle that to me personally it seems way too easy for something to go very wrong in that situation. The more I read about trimming it honestly seemed like a crapshoot as to if it did more harm and stress than good. Not onyl was it pricey but nothing I read actually convinced me that it had a huge impact in the long run.
I did discover that supposedly Vitamin C and Calcium supplements help. I started giving mine a chewable Vitamin C tablet twice a week and adding Calcium powder to their food right away.
Then my vet really made me mad about 3 months after Penny was diagnosed and said she wouldn't give me more of the eye drops until I came in. I pretty much argued with the girl on the phone that I didn't understand what the point in me constantly bringing her in when I know how this is all going to end. And I said I didn't understand why they wouldn't try to make the animal as comfortable in the meantime as they could.
After spending nearly 2 hours at Walgreens that night looking for some kind of eye drops I could safely use on Penny and reading every single label I actually found one. It's an eye flush that contains 99.9% purified water and that's it. No other mystery ingredients or salt to deal with.
I started putting eye drops in her eyes myself with a small clean syringe every night. The eye infections never came back. She occasionally has watery eyes but past that she has been ok. Just this week she's taking a turn for the worse but I truely think my own research and efforts have kept her alive a whole lot longer than 1) the vet thought she would be 2) if I had continued treatment and stressed her out.
My point is this. As hard as it might be to accept, you already know how this is going to end. I did as soon as I saw Penny's xrays. It's pretty much beyond your control when you've done everything right and even caught the disease 2 years before most other people would. Unfortunately even doing everything right you're fighting genetics at that point. Once you have the diagnoses the best thing you can do is exhaust every option to make them comfortable for as long as they have left. When Penny had to go to the vet she would get so mad and scared that she wouldn't even poop in the carrier! I knew it wasn't going to be in her best interest to keep lugging her back and forth. I'm not saying it's not the best option for some people but I just know it wasn't for us. I was able to hold on to Penny for an additional 2 years. Even though I know she's near the end now, the biggest thing you have to do isknow in your heart you did what you felt was best for them.
Penelope88
Active member
I feel like the worst mom in the world =[ ! I checked on her this morning and she had little tiny poops, so I'm terrified that there's something wrong with her stomach on top of everything else so I panicked and called the first vet. I dropped her off at 8:30, they're going to do the x-rays and oral exam. I gave them a very strict list of things they could and absolutely couldn't do ... at this point my main concern is just getting the x-rays and I'll go from there if treatment is necessary. I feel horrible that this isn't the best vet in the world, but I didn't have any other options and I couldn't stand making her suffer anymore. Please say a little prayer for Penelope. I'll update as soon as I hear anything.
mishellyshel
Chin Slave
while i agree with most of what lweck as said, the one thing that i must say is that while malo is not a "curable" disease there are things that can help slow the growth of roots. and trimming/filing teeth is a necessary part of maintaining oral health in a rodent.
by that i mean, if they have points on their teeth they need to be filed, otherwise they can get an abrasion in their mouth which can get infected. also filing/trimming will often stop the drooling.
if your chin is eating pellets and hay and gnawing on wood those things file the teeth naturally, which is why a normal chinchilla does not require dental vet visit.
and not every case is the same. my chin was diagnosed over 2 years ago. honestly i dont think it is genetics.....i think it was environmental. basically i blame myself. i was not educated when i got him over 6 years ago....feed him raisins and whole peanuts and didnt give him wood every single day. Now all my chins get pellets, the best hay, and 1 shredded wheat a day. they get an organic herbal mix that contains only herbs, flowers, & a pinch of oats, crushed rose hips (vitamin c). and i prepare my own wood and they all get at least 1 stick per day and all have wood shelves they can gnaw on.
so it is not always genetics that you are fighting, sometimes it is making up for mistakes you or someone else made.
but at the end of the day........the most important thing is to do what is right for your situation and your pet.
Krysten--the worst person in the world would not have spent all the time & money you have spent on your chin. you are doing what you think is best for your situation. good luck i hope penelope is back on the right tract and is feeling better real soon.
by that i mean, if they have points on their teeth they need to be filed, otherwise they can get an abrasion in their mouth which can get infected. also filing/trimming will often stop the drooling.
if your chin is eating pellets and hay and gnawing on wood those things file the teeth naturally, which is why a normal chinchilla does not require dental vet visit.
and not every case is the same. my chin was diagnosed over 2 years ago. honestly i dont think it is genetics.....i think it was environmental. basically i blame myself. i was not educated when i got him over 6 years ago....feed him raisins and whole peanuts and didnt give him wood every single day. Now all my chins get pellets, the best hay, and 1 shredded wheat a day. they get an organic herbal mix that contains only herbs, flowers, & a pinch of oats, crushed rose hips (vitamin c). and i prepare my own wood and they all get at least 1 stick per day and all have wood shelves they can gnaw on.
so it is not always genetics that you are fighting, sometimes it is making up for mistakes you or someone else made.
but at the end of the day........the most important thing is to do what is right for your situation and your pet.
Krysten--the worst person in the world would not have spent all the time & money you have spent on your chin. you are doing what you think is best for your situation. good luck i hope penelope is back on the right tract and is feeling better real soon.
obcsed
Well-known member
I agree with Michelle. There are things you can do to help a chin with elongated roots. My Gizzie was a mess 4 years ago. I too went through a number of vets till I found one that could help. He had been getting occasional filings for a couple of years before I found the right vet. They did extensive oral surgery including filing all the teeth way down and gum surgery. It was expensive and really hard on the little guy but it has made a world of difference. He still has a chronically wet right eye but he goes much longer between filings and I can tell when it is time for a filing because he starts to drool. Gizzie started having trouble with his teeth when he was just a little over a year old. The x-rays at that time were horrifying and I thought he wouldn't be around much longer. It is now 6 years later and he is doing just fine with the occasional trim. A lot of his problem was caused by me. I fed him all the wrong stuff when he was young. He is on a much better diet now and has all the wood he can chew. I know I've probably shortened his life but I'm doing everything in my power to make him happy and comfortable for as long as it is possible.
Hang in there. Things might not be as bad as you think. Only time will tell.
Hang in there. Things might not be as bad as you think. Only time will tell.
