Formula contradictions...

[RDZCRanch]

I was simply trying to demonstrate that one person's idea of a successful formula may not be one that is actually meeting the needs of the animals. This is demonstrated by the 60% survival rate with KMR - some people would find 60% satisfactory and tell you KMR is fine.

I think you read my post wrong. I had a 60% mortality rate with KMR, so a 40% success rate. To me, anything less than 80% would not be ok. My friend that also used KMR, hand fed around 50 kits for the "breeder" we both got the information from and she had 0% success rate. Part of it had to do with unhealthy kits and poor breeding practices, but even the kits that SHOULD have survived with hand feeding, did not.

 

[Brittany_Lynn]

I enjoyed the leopard reference as well. I don't think I could convince Boji or Maia to go anywhere near ground meat. They'd probably shun me for a few days... or at least until they wanted a raisin. *lol*

Just wanted to pipe in that (for example) plain, bite sized shredded wheats or plain cheerios are a much better, healthier treat for your chinchillas than raisins. I'm sure there is a long list somewhere. also, no treats for the babies until *mumblemumble* something like 4 months, I think? I don't know for sure :S someone on here is sure to know.

 

[Cuddlebug]

It's no treats until 6 months old.

 

[Airyn]

I haven't been on for a few days, but just wanted to thank you all again for such an absolute wealth of information!

Maia had three kits this morning. Morning weights were 47, 47 and 50 grams. So far, so good, but the last little girl to arrive seems to be having difficulty finding a nipple. She roots a lot and by the time she latches on, mom will either move or one of her littermates will bully her out of position. I weighed her a little while ago and she'd dropped down to 44, though I did read that it's normal for them to drop weight the first day. She's visibly weaker than the other two but just as active. So my next question for you guys... How long do you usually rotate for before supplementing? My apologies if this is a topic better started on a different thread... I could certainly repost.

 

[greychins]

Decent weights, congrats on the kits! We need pictures.

I would personally give it a day or so before I'd immediately start supplementing... I'd rotate first if you can, but sometimes just giving the kits a day or so to get used to the world around them makes it so that they'll be ok. We've had triplets before, where one was a bit smaller and his siblings pushed him away... but despite all of that, he did start gaining weight and he was fine. I would weigh them again tomorrow, and if your little one has gained, then I would just be sure that she continues to do so. If she continues to lose, then I would start rotating/supplementing.

 

[tunes]

I agree. I would not supplement at all if by rotating she is gaining weight. Mom's milk is the best milk, and is much better for the kits than formula. If you're going to supplement every 2 hours, it's a LOT easier to just rotate. The way I would do it is keep the little one in with mom at all times, and rotate out one of the bigger ones every 2 hours, then rotating it back in for a 2 hour shift. Keep the outed baby in a kit safe carrier with a heating pad on low under half of the carrier. I also put in a stuffed eeyore for them to cuddle with, even if there are more than one kits in there.

Keep a close eye. It is not uncommon for triplets to fight, and it isn't uncommon for them to single out the smallest one and beat it senseless. Kits are little beasts when it comes to nursing. They claim a nipple, and by God, NOBODY is going to take it from them. You'd be horrified to see the damage kits can do to other kits.

Those are good birth weights. As long as they all are gaining, and there is no fighting at all, then leave them be. If the little one starts losing, start rotating. You can also start using the dry formula from day one. Mom likes it as well.

 

[Airyn]

Thank you both! She weighed 5 grams less this morning as compared to yesterday morning. From what I've read, that's a pretty significant drop. Mom did drink a ton of the cranberry juice and a lot of water last night though. (I did 25% cranberry and 75% water... She didn't like 50/50.) I'm hoping that helped the milk to come in a little more so the little one can smell out the nipple instead of rooting through mom's hindquarters... funny to watch, but not at all useful for weight gain. I work close to home, so I'll probably weigh her at lunch just to see how she's doing.

The biggest one was bullying the other two around a few times yesterday, so I literally laughed out loud when I read what you wrote about claiming a nipple, Tunes. Too true! Mom corrected the behavior immediately though... even pushed him away until he was calmer, so by late yesterday afternoon, there wasn't any fighting what-so-ever. I'll definitely keep an eye out though.

As for the dry formula... I looked for a feed store, but couldn't find one anywhere near me. I did find fresh goat's milk though. I'll see if I can find a feed store tonight. I looked a few weeks ago but had a lot of difficulty. All anyone stocks around here is KMR, apparently. Rather frustrating!

I'll keep you guys posted and will post pics as soon as I borrow a decent camera. Mine's absolutely awful, so the pics I took are too low res and the graphic designer in me simply won't stand for posting that caliber of images.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate the instant responses! Thanks again!

 

[tunes]

5 gm is quite a big to lose in one night. I'm guessing that one is getting pushed away. What tends to happen in a situation like this is the squabbling will escalate, so again, I encourage you to keep a close eye on it. I also don't think I would let that one lose much more weight. If he drops again, I would start rotating.

Here's a link to TSC's in PA http://www.tractorsupply.com/StoreLocatorSearchAndResultsView. Are any of them near you? They carry the powdered goat's milk.

This is the kind I use: http://www.tractorsupply.com/livest...-kid-reg-goat-kid-milk-replacer-8-lb--2211217

That stuff smells SO good. Almost tempts me to taste it.

 

[Airyn]

Yeah, that's what I was concerned about. I just went home for lunch and weighed her again. She dropped another 2 grams, so now she's down at 40. Very not good. And, no... the closest TSC is an hour away at best. Can I mix liquid goat's milk?

 

[tunes]

You use the liquid goat's milk for the hand feeding formula. You use the powdered goats milk for the formula you leave in the cage at all times.

I would supplement her at this point. At least several times a day if you can. I would also start rotating, leaving her in at all times and supplementing her every third or fourth hour. If she doesn't pick up with that, then you may have to go to every 2 hours, around the clock.

Ain't breeding fun?

 

[Airyn]

Yeah, I knew I used it for the handfeeding formula. Wasn't sure if I could use it for the dry formula as well. Looks like I'm going to have to go the handfeeding/rotating route, as I can't find the dry formula near me. I'm stuck at work for another 2 hours too, so hopefully she won't drop anymore in that time period.

What sucks is that this one is the ONLY kit I formed an emotional attachment to so far. I had to dry her off when she came out, so there was an insta-bond. I really think she's having issues finding the nipple. She's the only one that lays on her back to feed and keeps ending up either under mom's butt or under her head for warmth. Oh, and she hears my voice and comes running for me if she's not buried under mom. It feels like she's begging for handfeeding. *lol*

 

[RDZCRanch]

Usually with a "dry" formula you want all of the ingredients to be dry.

If you can't find a tractor supply store, there is also a powder formula of goat's milk made by Meyenberg that is widely available at grocery stores.
http://www.vitacost.com/Meyenberg-Kosher-Goat-Milk-Powder-with-Vitamin-D

 

[Airyn]

*lol* Well, I'm worried. I love the little furball already. Logic and reason have gone out the window. Besides... that's why I have you guys... so I can ask dumb questions.

Thanks for the Meyenberg formula. I'll see what I can find.

And in case I haven't clarified today... I really, really, really appreciate all your help!!!

 

[VolunteerChin22]

Good luck to your babies - I seem to have poor luck with triplets about 75% of the time - someone always ends up fighting...

 

[Airyn]

Thank you! I'm still shocked she had three in her first litter! I knew I was going to have issues... just didn't know on what level, so I tried to prep for everything.