Entropion in dogs

[Riven]

I have a puppy who is currently 4 months old. He is a golden retriever.

Ever since we've had him ( Thanksgiving ) his eyes have watered and his eye lids on the bottom of both eyes roll in. When I took him in for a neuter I asked the vet to tack them. When I picked him up they hadn't done anything with the eyes and gave me antibiotics saying an infection could be causing it.

It really upset me because they didn't get any background information. They didn't even ask his DOB when I dropped him off, records of shots or anything. I moved to this clinic because my vet moved there. I didn't get to talk to my vet, and the vet who did the surgery I've dealt with before and I've never had issues with her. But they didn't know if he'd be previously seen for the issues at another vet or anything. Tacking usually only works before 6 months of age. He's has this issue since we got him an they roll in a lot, not just a little bit. When she said they treat for infections first because if they do the surgery and it's not needed it messed the eyes up worse, and I said I didn't want the surgery I wanted them tacked, she just looked at me and obviously didn't understand. Putting my animals under anesthesia is not one of my favorite things to do and I wanted to have the sutures put in while he was already under for the neuter...

Has anyone else have a dog with entropic issues? How did your vet handle it?

 

[Paws4Chins]

Hi I am a Vet Tech and I will say this first they should have consulted you before they decided to not tack the eyes. I would be very mad also. I will say that if the puppy did have an eye infection plus entropion it would be good practice to clear the eye infection up first. Entropion can cause eye infection. I have no idea why they thought he did not have entropion it is pretty obvious when they do. They should have gotten his old records too and the vaccine issue is just basic good practice. All the things you said would put up red flags in my mind about this vet. You commented that the eyes should be done before 6 mo for the greatest success...I have never heard this and have seen many older dogs get entropion surgery at later ages and do great. As for another anesthetic procedure while we don't want to put them under to much IF and this a big IF the quality of anesthesia and monitoring is good then their should not be much to worry about. Since the basic quality care of this vet is in question I would question their anesthetic practices as well. If you don't want to change vets at least speak with your old vet and express your concerns and experience. Then if the vet makes you feel comfortable only have that vet due the surgery. You might want to look elsewhere for another vet and I would recommend you start by visiting the AAHA webpage to get vets in you area. Vets that are accredited by AAHA have to critieria of high expectations for the practice of good standard quality vet care. I hope this help. Oh, and by the way I am sure you know this but this condition is very uncomfortable for the dog. Imagine you eyelashes scraping your cornea 24-7. So I hope you can find a vet that will do the surgery and get quality care for your pup. Good Luck

 

[Riven]

Actually dogs don't have eyelashes on the bottom lid. But I'm not referring to the surgery, which is also what she did not understand, I'm referring to tacking. Tacking involved putting one or two stitches in to hold the lid into place for a week or two to retrain the muscles. It is usually effective, but only usually at an early age while the muscles are growing the most, etc.

We have one AAHA clinic near by, I know this because I've worked for two of the local vets and they were one of them. Unfortunately I also know that that vet charges for things that he does not do, and his prices are double everyone else's.

The local vet built a new clinic and I may begin working with them. They do health certificates and euthanisia's for me when needed because they are close. I previously didn't vet there often because they did not use gas because they primarily did large animal. They do have ultrasound and everything else, and since opening the clinic made it more companion animal friendly, including gas anesthesia.

I talked with a friend of mine who manages an operation for a vet, they raise goats and cattle, and she said she had some goats last year that had entropia issues and she corrected them by using a pencil under the lid and rolling it out to stretch the muscles, and they were corrected after about a week. I may do this as well. It is not a little flip, the ridge of his eyelid rolls in nearly 180 degrees. They did do a stain and saw no trauma to the eye at this time.

 

[Paws4Chins]

Ok well I learned something to day that I did not know before...dogs don't have eyelashes on lower lid. I still think that they should have done the tacking surgery for you or at least consulted you. I wish you luck. Sounds like you are preatty knowlegable about vet care I am sure you will get it figured out. It is too bad that the dog has to go thru another anesthtic procedure. How do you feel about Domitor and Antisedan...I think it works great for a short procedure as long as it is used properly. The tacking should not take that long so maybe they can do this instead of general anesthesia. I know what you mean about AAHA hospitals costing more money...but I try to think that you get what you pay for. I am no longer working for vet as I am going back to school so cost is now a factor for me as well since I don't get the lower vet cost benifit.

 

[Riven]

I don't mind paying for what I get, but I know that vet doesn't give you everything you pay for...

I was upset they didn't even call or anything, in fact when I got there I asked how the eye tacking went... I have notices that days that I clean them more thoroughly and roll them out that they seem to have less problems.

I was also wondering if it would be possible to, instead of stitching the lid, to possibly like glue the fur into place, but then again that would probably pull on the fur causing discomfort... I was going to ask my vet about it. We use Domitor for grooming cats at my mom's shop. The vet stops and does it, we don't, lol. But I believe he uses Dom. It's short lived though so it's shave it while you can sort of deal, which is okay so the cat's not sleeping all day.

Dogs do have fur on their lower lid section below the ridge line, but no actual lashes, although they do on the top. It's actually a common thing you hear when people talk about entropian issues.

 

[Paws4Chins]

I know what you mean about getting up charged and vets doing things that aren't really necessary. Yes, maybe I got in my head they had eyelashes somehow when actually it was really fur. As for surgical glue it could work although have never seen or heard of being done. It is used a lot for cat dewclaws because it is less irritating then sutures. When cats are declawed they don't shave the fur on the toes and then the glue is inserted in the hole were the claw was. Usually some of the glue gets on the surrounding fur so if cats can tolerate the pulling of the glued fur when they walk I would think it might work for other furred areas. Not sure about around the eye as it quite a sensitive area and if they are not careful the glue could get on the eye itself and that would be bad. I don't know how long the glue holds as usually incisions are healed before it has a chance to wear off. I would also wonder if it would not keep the lower lid tacked for long as this area is moving constantly with blinking and facial movement. Interesting thought however let me know what you found out about the glue. I was wondering if you knew that tacking might not work completely and might have to be done a few times and then they still may need surgery. The surgery option is not recommended until the dog is adult because it is growing. This link is pretty good http://www.petwave.com/Dogs/Dog-Health-Center/Ear-and-Eye-Disorders/Entropion/Treatment.aspx Please don't think I am insulting your intelligence or experience...I wanted to empathize with you and have an educated discussion and I learned something from you. Here is a link written by an a professional written by a veterinary opthamologist at MSU. It discusses a little bit about the fact glue can be used. Perhaps you might go to an opthamologist if you want to explore the glue thing more I would suppose they have more experience with it....but then it will cost more.

 

[Paws4Chins]

Opps forgot to put the article link http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00520.htm

 

[Riven]

I have some running to do this morning, need to go pick up my daughters drums, she'll be thrilled.

The glue was a random idea I had, I've also seen it used in some spays and neuters, and I was going to ask my vet about it because I could have him do it at my mom's shop. See, it's like this. The shop is in Kearney, he lives near Kearney, I live 30 min. one way from Kearney, the clinic he's working at is a bit over an hour the other way from Kearney. I don't mind driving or paying for the care as long as I get it what I paid for. I don't know if there is a vet that specializes in ophthalmology near me, I live in a very rural section of Nebraska. For example the nearest chain pet store like Petco or PetSmart is over 2 hours away. I like it usually, but occasions like this are a pain because specialty stores and services are so far away.

I'm going to try the eye drops, which is promptly chewed up last night, I don't know if I forgot to put them up or if one so the cats knocked them down... and the rolling for a week and see what happens.

The inner corner of his eye looks just.. off. I don't really know how to explain it. It may be from it rolling in for so long, or maybe a little bit of conjunctivitis in there...

 

[Paws4Chins]

Hope your daughter is enjoying her new drums.

I have been through Nebraska a few times and know were Kearney is and who far apart large metropolitan cites are. I bet it is real hard to get what is needed and safe for your Chins...thank goodness for the Internet to order stuff.

Darn cats for knocking things over and then for dogs finding it to chew on it. I have had several things ruined this way...medication like you. Got to love um though.

I also have seen tissue adhesive used for OHE's and Neuters in dogs and cats. It is quite effective.

I wish you luck as you try to get the puppies eyes fixed. Hope he is recovering well from the neuter. Keep me posted in my IM if you want so I can see what way you go about tacking the eyelid and if it successful.

 

[Riven]

The neuter didn't phase him a bit! I've been rolling his lids out with my fingers several times a day, I'm going to see how that does for him, and I might call and get more eye drops since he thought they were so yummy...