Damp around his right eye

[Shenanigans]

Prior info:
I adopted two chins about 2 months ago now- I was told there were no prior medical issues, other than their feet dried up too much when they had a lava ledge shelf. We got through quarantine with no issues. One is 2 1/2, the other is 3. Neither boy really likes loose hay. They eat Mazuri currently, I switched them from Oxbow when I got them. I've been tying to get other hays, but so far they still aren't interested. I know this can cause issues long term so I've been getting herbs like nettle to try to spark interest, reducing the pellets they constantly have access to, feeding lots of thing twigs that they will eat like hay to hopefully wear down those teeth, and giving them hay cubes-which they're pretty good about eating. Typical intake is about 1/3 a cup of pellets and half a hay cube between the two. (I have another male who eats about 1/4 a cup of pellets and a handful of hay a day whos a bit smaller than both) They get unlimited wood and have been making a sawdust storm since they got here. I joke about them making their own bedding.
I hadn't really been weighing the boys regularly yet- they are super skittish about being held so I've been working on that. I did weigh them the first day this happened Joe (the one with the eye issue) is 1 pound 10.0 oz, his cagemate is 1 pound 9.7 oz, and Yuki may be the oldest at 7, but he's the lightest at 1 pound 7.3 oz. When I bought the **** scale I thought it was supposed to do grams but I cant get it to.

The issue:
One boy, Joe, has had a watery eye for a couple days now. He has liked trying to sit under the water bottle so at first I wasn't sure if he had some drop on him- I gave him a dust bath and hoped a couple days would clear it up. (Yuki has poked his eye with hay and just needed a day before). Last night while checking out the area more I noticed his upper eyelid is reddish as well. No pattern to it- just kind of irritated. most of the dampness is under the eye. Well, last night I noticed some white puss/eye goup in the corner of his eye too. So I've got a vet visit for tomorrow at 11 at the Bird and Exotic Pet Wellness Center in Toledo, which seems to be highly recommended for chins by all the other vets around here. I'm terrified of malo, particularly with an eye issue and the lack of eating hay. His prior owner never noticed an eating hay issue. I already threw away the stupid hay ball the boys came with- it didn't seem to encourage hay consumption and I didn't want the boys to get hurt. It was annoying to fill too. Now I'm worried that I got rid of it to soon and the boys may actually eat hay out of it... I'm having nightmares about Malo since the eye dampness started, but I know ringworm, pink eye and corneal abrasions are treatable eye issues. No one around them have had any health issues, other than normal springtime allergies. We are in the middle of a higher pollen alert according to the weather channel (all the fruit trees just blossomed) but it's just one eye in the chin...
So I've got a vet appt at 11 at the wellness center, $65 for Joe and $35 each for a wellness check for his cage mate Laredo and $35 more because Yuki is coming too while we're at it. The receptionist said they recommend a yearly checkup, which I know most of you guys say is unnecessary stress. I'm hoping that's not a bad sign of the vet. I'd love any ideas/suggestions and anything I should ask the vet or meds that should/shouldnt be given or if I should insist on x-rays. Im a totally worry wort mess right now. Any help is appreciated.

Unsure if it's related, but we kinda just hit warmer spring. The boys room has been 69 or 70 degrees- we turn on the AC for even an hour to keep it there. Over winter (until last week) thier room stayed around 62. I've been upgrading thier cage slowly and just added bigger granite tiles (cleaned and peroxided before intro) Joe has taken to sitting on one of these and has had slightly redder ears than normal. I figured he was fussing at the 8 degree increase in temp, but now im worried about fever and stuff. He's also been making kinda squeaky noises at me when I make kissy/clicky noises at him through the bars. I though it was a getting used to me thing that was adorable, but now Im fussing about it being him in pain possibly. Im a total wreck worrying about my little guy.

 

[Smidgeyy]

If I understand correctly... You can feed loose hay or hay cubes. Either one gets the job done, so I wouldn't worry or restrict pellets. By restricting pellets, you're giving him less to wear his teeth down with. You can also try making a fleece haybag to hang the hay if you think that would help.

How is the humidity there?

You also want to weigh in grams. You can't monitor weight changes as well with ounces. Can you buy another scale?

He could have gotten something in his eye so I would have the vet examine it before rushing into getting x-rays(just to save you the money in case there is a visible eye issue).

That's just my guess. Hopefully someone with more experience will have a better idea for you.

 

[Shenanigans]

I'm not limiting pellets so much as giving half a bowl in the morning and half at night instead of a full bowl. I had heard tips that it may help hay consumption but it hasnt really changed it. I heard people going to only hay and re-introing pellets and i want to avoid that. I thought the cubes wore down the front teeth like chews not the back teeth like loose hay?
humidity is pretty constantly 50%
I had a hard time finding this one. I'll see about finding a new scale though...
I forgot in my above post Joe went from 1 pound 10.0 oz to 1 pound 10.2 oz today (it does 2 pts after the decimal but chemistry taught me to round that last figure) that's 5.6 grams up.

If the vet cant see anything would you ask about x-rays on the first visit still? I just know some people have turned what could be one visit into 2 or 3 and I want Joe better asap.
Thanks

 

[ticklechin]

I used to get freaked out about eye infections early on when I had malo chins, to be honest of the 10 malo chins I had, none had the eye infection problem due to the malo. In order for the malo to cause the issue (its not malo that causes it its elongation) the incisors need to overgrow externally to the point when the chins mouth is at rest the incisors touch when the mouth is closed, when this happens the signal is given to the teeth to reverse direction and grow backward-this backward growth is right inline with the lacrimal canal-it will grow through it blocking off the drain to the lacrimal duct (tear duct), unable to drain, the eyes will leak and the trapped bacteria flourish and cause repeated infections. Since I was always on top of incisor trimming even the elongation chins did not have eye issues. In this case more than likely its a infection, especially due to the redness. Get eye drops, treat and see what happens, sometimes the chin will not respond to just eye drops and will need oral meds. If the problem reoccurs, I would change the chins dust frequently, if it still persists then I would get a oral exam and x-rays. Since there is always a risk when a chin is put under of them not waking up or having complications, I rule out any other factor before I have this done, especially if there are no other symptoms or slow weight loss over time.


You might try some of Tanyas foraging hay, its a big hit with most chins. Even I want to eat it.

 

[Shenanigans]

thanks Dawn- that makes me a little less worried about Malo.
How do you know about teeth elongation before it get to eye problems? From posts I've seen before on here it seemed like malo/elongation could sneak up on people. I would guess not chewing would be a sign, along with any other obvious bad health stuff. Joe seems to be drinking and eating pellets ok, he runs on his wheel and doesnt seem lethargic, he chews enough wood I could hire him out as a woodchipper if the people would be kind enough to only have chin safe wood to chip

What kind of eye drops are best? I know there's going to be a lot of differences. What to look for and avoid?
Between him and his cagemate I normally have no fine dust left at the end of bath time so it gets changed anyways. They love making clouds and Laredo is not graceful. He cant figure out how to flip to get his butt dusty- He sort of summersaults and then lays on his back folded in half- I've started helping with the butt dusting the past few times.

The boys have a few hays and I got nettle from Tanya- most of the other stuff in her foraging hay I got at a health food store. (her ingredients list is organic timothy, orchard grass, oat hay, organic meadow grasses, alfalfa, organic red clover, and organic herbs (nettle, calendula flowers, rose hips, rose petals, linden, chamomile, hibiscus- I've got her nettle and I've got red clover and all the herbs. He occasionally takes a herb from me but isnt big on most of them, except the rose stuff which are his normal treats). I do want to go out and get more types of hay but they have three mostly full bags right now of stuff that looks great to me but they dont seem to care for (I was trying different timothy's mostly-looking for different cuts and stuff- but I want to get orchard grass and all the other safe ones). I dont know how much hay I can keep getting without them eating it- my practical half know most of what I have now will get thrown out or given away before it's used, but my other half wants to spoil the boys with every little bit I can.


I feel so sorry that you've had to go through so many malo chins, but I know me and others are very thankful for your help!

 

[ticklechin]

Chewing wood is good, let him have all the wood he wants. Elongation is IMO genetic, meaning some chins teeth grow at a faster rate that others, that increases the chance of it happening. Normal chin teeth grow at a rate of 1-3 mm a week, something that should easily be kept trim even with a pellet hog who does not want hay. (Have you tried alfalfa?)
Its the ones whose teeth grow at a rapid rate-6mm plus a week. I had one whose teeth grew that much a week, she had to have the incisors trimmed every two weeks and the teeth filed once a month, to contrast that I had one who had severe malo whose incisors only needed to be trimmed when filed at 6 weeks and the teeth themselves did not overgrow even being hand fed all his food.

The eye drops depend on what is the primary issue, infection or injury, steroidal eye drops are fine, some names are neo-poly-dex, gentamicin, terremycin, and something oral you would want sulfa based like trimethsulfa.

 

[Shenanigans]

ok. Joe's my biggest chewer- I don't know if that makes me happy because it's less likely to be teeth issues or worry because he may chew because his teeth grow to fast. All my boys are adoptions so their histories/genetics are unknown.
How did you figure out who had rapid elongation teeth issues and who's fine? Do you check every so often, or what was you first signs?

I've given alfalfa in a mix, but not alone- there's just no interest with either Joe or Laredo. They occasionally pull it all out to pee on it, but otherwise they just ignore the hay. Super frustrating. So far the Dumor brand timothy I've got gets a couple nibbles and that's about the best reaction.

Thank you so much for everything.

We're ready to leave- I got ready too fast so we've got about a half hour before putting the chins in carriers and leaving. Wish me luck!

 

[Shenanigans]

Alright- we just got back. We probably were with the doc for around an hour. He was very good. Had Mazuri in his office and some pamphlet things for owners.
Official diagnois- he probably got dust in his eye. I have some ointment-"Ophth triple anti Oint" on the printed lable, box says "Vetropolycin" "bacitracin-neomycin-polymyxin veterinary ophthalmic ointment". Apple once or twice a day for a week. He also said for stuff like that can also do a saline eye drop (suggested one with no steroids because they can cause issues/make it worse if the chin has ulcers in the eye) We also picked up a few emergency care items. Emeraid Herbavore critical care- he suggested this one over Oxbow's critical care because it is syringe fed easier (I didnt have any on hand and had been meaning to ick something up). He also recommended Manka Honey Med from New Zealand- it is good for wounds and the honey part promotes healing but doesn't have a petroleum/jelly part like many similar products which actually inhibits healing.

All my boys are overall healthy/fine, and even though I kinda overreacted to the eye thing I'm very happy I took them all for my piece of mind over any unseen medical issues. We talked about malo/elongation and I guess a big sign is that unworn teeth get sharp and make mouth sores which makes slobber/salivation as one of the bigger signs. The boys didnt really mind or get stressed out (other than Yuki hating being in a carrier but he was preoccupied with apple and pear sticks most of the time)

Costs: $35 for each chin's exam, $27 for the ointment, $14 for the optional Manuka Honey med, $14 for the optional Emerald Herbivore Bag/critical care. for a total of $160. I really liked this doc- Tim Reichard of the Bird & Exotic Pet Wellness Center in Toledo Ohio. He took the time to go over every aspect of chinchilla care- just in case I had missed something. In return we went on his list of if he dies and comes back as a chinchilla he wants us as owners since we spoil our chins healthily- he told us to watch out for a chin missing fingers if he dies (he's got like the top half of his palm and fingers missing).
Im laughing at myself over how much I was fretting and I'm glad everything seems to have check out ok. Now Joe just has to clear up his eye.

 

[ticklechin]

Good news!

 

[Shenanigans]

I'm so relieved. Joe's been doing this cute happy squeak at me through the cage bars the past couple days (people not through cage bars are still scary because he might get picked up). He was very talkative in the vets squawking at them picking him up and then talking with me while they were printing up the bill. He even seemed ok with me putting ointment in, so Im guessing that means it's helping- it actually looks like less damp already. I was SO afraid that since I'd only had him one month the previous owner had lied about malo... so many things. Im so glad you guys are here for info/support.
oh, and the vet actually recommended limiting pellets to... i think he said 1 1/2 tbsps I have it written down on the paperwork... (without me bringing that up as an option). I'm going to try more hays first. I tricked them last night with giving a small piece of nettle then a bigger piece of hay then a tiny rose petal, then a piece of hay, after a bit i switched to just hay and thin grapevine sticks. I dont want to give them too much junk but if I can trick them into thinking hay's a treat too... I figured out Joe seems to like the leafyier greener stuff that seems to fall apart more than the stalkier parts but I dont remember what cut that is (i think 1st? second is more stalks i think...). Laredo isn't as consistent. I'll double check in the morning. Today was a long day of the vet, cat sitting, and visiting my great-grandparents along with a boat load of other stuff.

 

[Michellemazz]

Awe I love the happy squeaks! I'm glad everything is ok. Sounds like you have a social little dude.

 

[Shenanigans]

Update! So Joe's back to talking to me. We've got a couple more days of ointment but his eye is definitely better. I'm still doing tonight's and tomorrow's so there's no chance of some sort of relapse. Im so glad he's doing better!

 

[ticklechin]

Go Joe!!!!!!!