Confused about my new kitten's behaviour .. Help please.

[fanofdmb84]

My PetSmart sells the big bags for $33 lol. I know it's just a dollar but, I like to save as much as I can lol. Do you pay shipping as well? Because if you do, it might not save me that much in the long run. Thanks for the info, maybe I can find it online somewhere else cheaper. I hadn't even thought of getting it online, lol!

That price may be for the regular BB, we feed the Wilderness line which is grain-free, and more expensive. I think at the pet stores the same bag of food runs around $37-$40. And no shipping charges, I get free shipping from Amazon. Also, even if the price is similar, you'll probably make up for that dollar in tax at your local store. I understand, I save every penny I can on things I buy all the time. I found the best deal for canned food was through Petsmart's online store buying the biggest cans 12 at a time.

 

[Cassi]

I've been researching diets for cats for over a year now. I have 3 cats of my own and they're my world. I do as much as I can for them!

No need to thank me, glad I could help.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

I have a few bones to pick about some of the things stated here. Feel free to counter, if you have a background in nutrition.

I've taken three nutrition classes, the third one taught by a board certified nutritionist (And I know I still don't know everything). Despite what people think vet students are not turned into Hill's zombies in vet school. We have never been forced to go to a lecture taught by a Hill's vet. Our nutrition class had nothing to do with hill's food. Yes we get food for cheap, they help fund some of our clubs to go places (NOT hill's conventions) but do not expect anything in return. We did get a free small animal clinical nutrition book from them, but it wasn't authored by them!
I used to think Hill's food was terrible myself. I thought I knew everything, that corn was bad, hill's was crap, etc. Until I got 'educated'. I adopted a kitten that had chronic diarrhea. After running every test imaginable on her it was narrowed down to allergies or idiopathic IBD. I bought super high quality food, all natural, grain free, touched from heaven, etc. I tried every protein source on the market. Did it work? NO! My vet told me a billion times to try W/D but I resisted. After buying almost all the food on the market I finally caved and fed W/D - she's been on it for almost 2 years and hasn't had liquid diarrhea since.

Vets do not get paid to sell Hill's food, nor do they get kickbacks. The only thing they get is the small amount of profit from buying the food at wholesale and selling it themselves. Oh, we do get those little can lids - that MUST be why they recommend hill's!

Secondly, Science Diet/Hills is not "crap food" or "junk" - this implies the food is terrible, that your animal will suffer or deteriorate from being fed it. That your animal could do better on table scraps. Wrong. Is it the best food? No. But it certainly isn't as abominable as people make it out to be. It has it's place. No two foods will work the same for every animal. Many factors go into what makes one food better than another for a specific animal.
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that higher quality ingredients are better, I prefer not to feed food with by-products, and have my own anecdote (dogs) for feeding better food, and having less poop to pick up. But I like to "spoil" my animals. They would thrive just fine on other foods - my cats are thriving on Hill's W/D, I almost wish they would thrive a little less so I could get a respite from their nonsense.

Thirdly, corn is not a filler. Corn is mostly starch - and when broken down slightly (either to a ground corn product or corn meal product) IT IS DIGESTIBLE. A real filler, for a cat, would be something like hay, something made of cellulose, hemicellulose, pectin and lignin. I swore up an down against feeding food with corn in it to my chins, but have since learned the error of my ways. Corn is actually a pretty darn good protein source. And when balanced with soybean meal you get a very nice amino acid profile.
Trust me, if they really wanted to make pet food cheaper and put in a filler, the companies would choose something MUCH cheaper than corn!

 

[fanofdmb84]

I have a few bones to pick about some of the things stated here. Feel free to counter, if you have a background in nutrition.

I've taken three nutrition classes, the third one taught by a board certified nutritionist (And I know I still don't know everything). Despite what people think vet students are not turned into Hill's zombies in vet school. We have never been forced to go to a lecture taught by a Hill's vet. Our nutrition class had nothing to do with hill's food. Yes we get food for cheap, they help fund some of our clubs to go places (NOT hill's conventions) but do not expect anything in return. We did get a free small animal clinical nutrition book from them, but it wasn't authored by them!
I used to think Hill's food was terrible myself. I thought I knew everything, that corn was bad, hill's was crap, etc. Until I got 'educated'. I adopted a kitten that had chronic diarrhea. After running every test imaginable on her it was narrowed down to allergies or idiopathic IBD. I bought super high quality food, all natural, grain free, touched from heaven, etc. I tried every protein source on the market. Did it work? NO! My vet told me a billion times to try W/D but I resisted. After buying almost all the food on the market I finally caved and fed W/D - she's been on it for almost 2 years and hasn't had liquid diarrhea since.

Vets do not get paid to sell Hill's food, nor do they get kickbacks. The only thing they get is the small amount of profit from buying the food at wholesale and selling it themselves. Oh, we do get those little can lids - that MUST be why they recommend hill's!

Secondly, Science Diet/Hills is not "crap food" or "junk" - this implies the food is terrible, that your animal will suffer or deteriorate from being fed it. That your animal could do better on table scraps. Wrong. Is it the best food? No. But it certainly isn't as abominable as people make it out to be. It has it's place. No two foods will work the same for every animal. Many factors go into what makes one food better than another for a specific animal.
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that higher quality ingredients are better, I prefer not to feed food with by-products, and have my own anecdote (dogs) for feeding better food, and having less poop to pick up. But I like to "spoil" my animals. They would thrive just fine on other foods - my cats are thriving on Hill's W/D, I almost wish they would thrive a little less so I could get a respite from their nonsense.

Thirdly, corn is not a filler. Corn is mostly starch - and when broken down slightly (either to a ground corn product or corn meal product) IT IS DIGESTIBLE. A real filler, for a cat, would be something like hay, something made of cellulose, hemicellulose, pectin and lignin. I swore up an down against feeding food with corn in it to my chins, but have since learned the error of my ways. Corn is actually a pretty darn good protein source. And when balanced with soybean meal you get a very nice amino acid profile.
Trust me, if they really wanted to make pet food cheaper and put in a filler, the companies would choose something MUCH cheaper than corn!

I can appreciate the information you've shared (and thank you for sharing). I, too, have heard of pets doing poorly on even the best (or raw) foods, and doing well on a Rx diet. My beef with Hill's (not necessarily their fault) is that many pet owners assume because vets carry it, that it is THE food, the best, the most expensive, and the absolute top of the line in quality and nutrition. Which it is most definitely not. If a particular animal does well on it, then by all means go for it, but that won't necessarily translate to the majority of pets. I would much rather feed a very natural raw diet than pumping my animals full of corn, regardless of its nutritional value (or lack of). I can't afford to, and many can't, but I get as close as I can with all grain-free foods for my animals.

 

[avecat6906]

That price may be for the regular BB, we feed the Wilderness line which is grain-free, and more expensive. I think at the pet stores the same bag of food runs around $37-$40.

It was the Wilderness price that I checked ) Thank you so much for the information!

 

[Sycamore Chins]

My beef with Hill's (not necessarily their fault) is that many pet owners assume because vets carry it, that it is THE food, the best, the most expensive, and the absolute top of the line in quality and nutrition. Which it is most definitely not. If a particular animal does well on it, then by all means go for it, but that won't necessarily translate to the majority of pets.

I guess I have never heard a veterinarian say or advertise Hill's as the best, top of the line food. And I've met more people that are cynical of veterinarians (thank you internet) than those that believe a veterinarians word as gospel. Differing experiences I suppose.
I will say, not enough veterinarians are big on nutrition. They can state the basics, such as protein levels, and essential amino acids, but don't really care much past that as long as the animal is doing well and isn't obese or emaciated.

I would much rather feed a very natural raw diet than pumping my animals full of corn, regardless of its nutritional value (or lack of). I can't afford to, and many can't, but I get as close as I can with all grain-free foods for my animals.

Ah, the BARF diet. We could have a whole discussion on feeding raw food. There are such serious human (and animal) health hazards that most people are not aware of or do not understand. It can be done properly, certainly, but I'd say most people have no idea what they're doing. To do it right, is also on average 3 times more expensive than commercial diets.

 

[fanofdmb84]

It was the Wilderness price that I checked ) Thank you so much for the information!

Well dang, maybe I just need to buy my cat food from NJ

Ah, the BARF diet. We could have a whole discussion on feeding raw food. There are such serious human (and animal) health hazards that most people are not aware of or do not understand. It can be done properly, certainly, but I'd say most people have no idea what they're doing. To do it right, is also on average 3 times more expensive than commercial diets.

I agree, and another reason I don't feed raw, but if I had the copious amounts of time and money (and knowledge) to do so, I would.

 

[3CsMommy]

Earlier you asked why a vet would suggest a food that could be problematic. I've noticed in talking with a number of vets that how you ask your question can make the difference. I've done a boat load of reading about pet foods after a brand that I thought was a great choice for my family turned up in the melamine recall in 2007. So instead of asking my current vet "What's a good food?" or "Is Frisky's a good brand?" I asked her "What do you feed your cats and why?" She has 7 of them, and feeds 3 different foods depending on the individual cat's needs.

That's the key to keeping pets well, I think; their individual needs need to be at the front of your mind when you decide on food, litter, and supplies even when you have more than one of that kind of animal in the house. Is it easier to just get one big bag of Iams and another big bag of Tidy Cat at the grocery store? Sure. But if one of your cats can't handle a certain meat source or gets chronic URIs, why force him to eat/potty in something that makes him sick?

It sounds like you're going through all the hoops to get little Simba on the way to a ripe old age. I'm impressed. Can we have more pictures when you get a free moment?

 

[Cassi]

I agree, and another reason I don't feed raw, but if I had the copious amounts of time and money (and knowledge) to do so, I would.

I feed a balanced raw diet (franken-prey) to all three of my cats and it's actually a lot less time consuming and MUCH LESS expensive then commercial dry/wet. I was spending upwards of $110.00-$120.00 a month feeding 100% high quality canned to my kittens, I switched to raw and maybe spend about $65.00 a month. We have to section and bag meals once every 2-3 months depending on how much we buy at the time and it usually takes about an hour between my fiance and I taking turns.

I've switched back and forth between canned and raw a few times and I have to say, we always come back to raw. Poop doesn't smell (and they only poo maybe once every day or two) and we go through HEAPS less litter a month!

 

[avecat6906]

Some more pictures )

1. Cupcake and .. Hey! Where's Simba? lol
2. All snuggled up on the couch!
3. Simba about to pounce on the unsuspecting Bagel, haha

 

[3CsMommy]

Aww! I love little black kitties! Cupcake is very pretty too.

 

[caiti]

Alicyn--thanks for writing all that about your thoughts on nutrition. I agree with pretty much everything you said (I can't speak for vet student or vets being pushed to sell science diet, as I'm not either).

Corn is not a good protein source, though. It has low quantity and quality. Soy bean meal and fish meal probably make up most of the crude protein in the cat feeds mentioned that I recall. They're likely between 45-65% CP and high quality. Corn is less than 10% CP. What it does have is calories--and lots of em. It's very good for energy and it's pretty cheap for the energy it has.

I understand the appeal of diets that are made of things we eat, but cats are weird. They can't synthesize a handful of compounds that a lot of other animals can. The first things you hear about are taurine (amino acid) and arachidonic acid (fatty acid). But there are other things to consider, like cats can’t use β-carotene. Honestly, there are other things that I don’t want to look through my nutrition notes to find, but I recall multiple times going over certain nutrients and writing cats, as an exception, can’t synthesize it. So just because a cat’s diet is made of things that aren’t synthetic compounds or things we wouldn’t eat, doesn’t mean it’s the best for them.

Having said that, I don’t know exactly what a cat’s nutritional requirements are.

So to the OP—I would encourage you to research it yourself and figure it out. And the pictures are very cute (side note!!).

 

[avecat6906]

UPDATE: Turns out Simba did have a parasitic worm. Got him the last type of medicine he will need. Gave him 1/4 piece on May 2 and he gets the second does of 1/4 piece of May 21. Vet also gave me some sort of vitamin supplement to help him recover. He seems to love it, I think it's beef flavored lol. The vet swears that me changing his food didn't make him sick that it was this worm. I'm sure my food changing didn't help, but it feels a little better to know that I didn't make him sick lol. And now at least I know more about foods and can get my cats on the right stuff ) The pet store that I bought him from gave me back $50 from vet bills because they should have treated him for it before I got him. So glad everything worked out and that my little Simba is on his way to recovery. Thank you all for your input and help with everything *hugs*

 

[LizNicole]

Catherine -

First, you have a very cute kitten on your hands. I'm sure he's got all the looks and kitten mischeif we all love to see. (=

Second, I'm glad to hear that they were able to get what it was his little body was battling pinned so you could finish treating him properly. It sound like you've been a great kitty owner and handled your responsibilities admirably. I think that on the petstore's part, the fact that they did refund you money (taking on their responsibilities, later than never) is great.

Last... I'm glad that you were able to find a food you're confident in amidst our boards ever so colorful informational debating. A little good reading to stimulate the mind..[we're good at it. lol]

 

[3CsMommy]

Wow. That's awesome that the pet store admitted they goofed. Glad it's something easily treatable and he's on the mend.

 

[mishalaa]

Going by the amount of medication you're giving him, it sounds like he has a tape worm. Normal dewormer given to kittens (liquid pyrantel pamoate) does not kill tape worms, it only kills roundworms and hookworms. So, it's cool that the pet store refunded your vet costs, but it's not necessarily their fault... unless they're admitting to not even giving him the pyrantel? Drontal (pill which does kill tape worms) is not normally given to kittens in their deworming rounds.

Tape worms come from fleas - the fleas carry it and the cats contract it when they eat their fleas. This probably did come from the pet store, but I would check Simba and now Bagel and Cupcake as well, and treat them all to a round of Revolution.

 

[avecat6906]

Going by the amount of medication you're giving him, it sounds like he has a tape worm. Normal dewormer given to kittens (liquid pyrantel pamoate) does not kill tape worms, it only kills roundworms and hookworms. So, it's cool that the pet store refunded your vet costs, but it's not necessarily their fault... unless they're admitting to not even giving him the pyrantel? Drontal (pill which does kill tape worms) is not normally given to kittens in their deworming rounds.

Tape worms come from fleas - the fleas carry it and the cats contract it when they eat their fleas. This probably did come from the pet store, but I would check Simba and now Bagel and Cupcake as well, and treat them all to a round of Revolution.

Yes Drontal is the new type of medication I'm giving him now. Good to know what it's for as the stupid vet wouldn't sit down long enough to tell me what kind of parasite it was. Just gave me some stupid long scientific name. Simba does not have fleas, I checked him before I brought him home. Neither of my other two cats have fleas or have ever had fleas either so I should be fine. But what is Revolution? Thanks.

 

[mishalaa]

Revolution is like Frontline or Advantage, but it also kills ear mites as well as fleas, ticks and round/hook worms. I usually go with it because it kills more parasites than the others, but if it's not necessary, then don't. It is expensive.

 

[avecat6906]

Oh ok I've never heard of it before. Yeah my cats never go outside and even then I check them at least once a week. Usually more whenever I'm petting them or anything like that. My boyfriend's grandparents have a flea infestation at their house in TN so I'm pretty paranoid about us getting anything like that lol. But the kitten was checked and I gave him a flea bath just a couple of days ago. (My boyfriend accidentally spilled gravy all over him and he needed a bath anyways lol) Thanks for the concern though and I will keep Revolution in mind in case I ever need it )

Here are some more picture of him with the gravy on him and after his bath lol. He looks like a little bat xD

 

[3CsMommy]

I'm sorry to L my A O at Simba's expense, but that might be the tastiest mess he ever gets himself into, and you went and gave him a bath for it. Poor baby!