chin fights

[xcoronaangel]

I posted a few days ago about getting 3 new chins.
My boys were introduced to them and the breeder said the should be fine together. (pls dont message about breeders and having chins come during purchasing that was already commented about in a previous thread).

Gretzky is one of my males I previously had. He was a little "bully-ish" with my other previous male Ozzy when they were small (2 months and 4 months) but Ozzy gave it right back. They ended up getting along pretty well.

Happy about my current boys I wanted to add to the number. Hence the 3 new chins. Though after bringing them home Gret decided to act really different. I separated the FN 142 and allowed the boys to live on different levels. I have been switching them every few days to allow them to get use to each other smells.

During a supervised play session yesterday Gret went after 2 of the new boys. I had to remove him from the group. I later put Ozzy back with Gret and Gret went after Ozzy chasing him all over the cage and shoving him in corners. <-- Ozzy is the chin he has been peacefully (mostly) living with for 4 months-ish

Today I came home from work around 8am to find that Gret had been able to move the three LARGE pieces of granite I placed over the bass metal opening on the top level. I can only assume he had been on the top level with the new boys for some time. I walked into the room and he was going after one of them. I right away took him out of the kennel and placed him in the lower section and fixed the granite tiles.

All the new boys are hiding on the top level along with Ozzy who looks to have been attacked also (loose fur in places).

I want to know what you guys think? I contacted Gret's breeder to get her advice. When I bought Gret she said she only wanted him to be living with another chin and never alone (and since I was purchasing 2 chins I of course agreed)... But I dont want to risk Ozzy. I knew I might have some chins who dont get along purchasing more then one. I was fine with seperating them if needed. I didnt expect a male who already got along with another to launch a full on attack with All the chins including his previous kennel mate.

Thanks. :skeptical:

 

[Stackie]

Keep them separated. New chins can set any chin off, and to me it sounds like you moved way too quick. In many instances you have to take introductions very slow- especially if you are trying to add new chins to two that are already bonded. Chins are territorial and any breach of their territory by new chins can put them into attack mode, even attacking their cage mates.

Introducing new chins to an already bonded pair can be very risky as you have learned. You will most likely have to start back at square one introducing Gretzky and Ozzy. If you are successful at getting them back together, I would let them be cage mates in their own cage, and the other chins in a different cage.

Then again, you may not be successful at getting them back together at all.

 

[alli713]

Yes, keep them separated and make sure there's no way for him to move the tiles again. That's a lot of fur, meaning it wasn't just a small scuffle, he was most likely actively chasing and attacking.

I personally would also separate Ozzy from Gretzky right now. Let them settle down and then slowly intro them again.

This is what happens with new chins. Many times a bonded pair will fight, it seems like introing more chins messes up with their bond.

 

[xcoronaangel]

I just looked over all the boys; Ozzy and Cola both have one bite mark on one ear that went straight through.

I just dont feel comfertable putting Ozzy back with Gret. Ozzy will stay with the new boys for now.

 

[Stackie]

As for the granite tiles being moved- put a piece of granite over the hole, then take a ledge and bolt it to the cage bars above the ledge, so that it is touching the granite and holding it down.

 

[xcoronaangel]

As for the granite tiles being moved- put a piece of granite over the hole, then take a ledge and bolt it to the cage bars above the ledge, so that it is touching the granite and holding it down.

Thanks good idea

 

[xcoronaangel]

The second breeder said if he was having a problem to put him in a smaller cage inside of the larger cage (connect food and water of course) and make him stay in the smaller cage for a day-two days.

Have any of you tried that and would it would or I guess what does it do besides just kinda make the chin in the smaller kennel mad?

 

[tunes]

I do it all the time and have done for years. I don't usually bother with hanging a water bottle as it usually ends up knocked off or chewed by the loose chin. I leave them in for 8 or 9 hours with a pile of hay on the top of the cage so they have to reach up and the other chin has to sit up there to eat, then rotate the other chin in the small cage and let the one that was caged roam around the big cage. I would not leave a chin in a show cage sized cage for a couple days.

 

[xcoronaangel]

Ok thanks. I am going to wait a day or so and allow everyone to calm down then put Gret in the smaller cage for a few hours at a time for a few weeks and see how everything goes.

I do it all the time and have done for years. I don't usually bother with hanging a water bottle as it usually ends up knocked off or chewed by the loose chin. I leave them in for 8 or 9 hours with a pile of hay on the top of the cage so they have to reach up and the other chin has to sit up there to eat, then rotate the other chin in the small cage and let the one that was caged roam around the big cage. I would not leave a chin in a show cage sized cage for a couple days.

 

[Stackie]

Ok thanks. I am going to wait a day or so and allow everyone to calm down then put Gret in the smaller cage for a few hours at a time for a few weeks and see how everything goes.

I would give them much longer to calm down...that's just me though...I wouldn't attempt anything for at least a couple of weeks to a month if it were me. I'm sure they'll all be scared and nervous after having been attacked, and Gret may still have that aggressiveness on his mind. In my experience chins remember being attacked for quite awhile, I have had a chin get attacked and be scared of anything and everything that moved afterwards for a couple of weeks.

 

[xcoronaangel]

I am thinking about buying a 3rd level then for my FN to house Gret and allow the other boys to have the full 2 levels to play around in. If I am talking months for them to Possibly get along for I want to be as safe as I can... hey I've spent thousands on my dogs another few hundred on the chins I guess shouldn't be a big deal.

Do I need to flush the wounds on the ears? No rips just straight through bite on both boys by the base of the ear.
(I have all AB's if necessary at home and access to them @ my hopsital)

I would give them much longer to calm down...that's just me though...I wouldn't attempt anything for at least a couple of weeks to a month if it were me. I'm sure they'll all be scared and nervous after having been attacked, and Gret may still have that aggressiveness on his mind. In my experience chins remember being attacked for quite awhile, I have had a chin get attacked and be scared of anything and everything that moved afterwards for a couple of weeks.

 

[Snickers]

Sorry about all the problems you're having. You can use blu-kote on the ears just be careful not to get it on yourself because it stains.

 

[xcoronaangel]

Sorry about all the problems you're having. You can use blu-kote on the ears just be careful not to get it on yourself because it stains.

I just looked over Gret after I cleaned up the other 4 and their cage and let them have a dust bath.

I found two what seems like to me large bit wounds on his back. I guess who ever he went after decided to go after him. He is really sleepy. I put him in the play pen so I could clean out his portion of the kennel since it had some fur in it also and he crawled into his dust bath and fell asleep.

IF this was a dog and the wounds were dog bites we would say to stitch them up or place drains or leave them be depending on the wound. Do you do the same for chins? I know it stresses them out a lot to go to the vet. Would it be better to wait a few days if I needed to take him in?

Thxs

 

[alli713]

Do you have blu-kote on hand?

MuShu got a bite like that once on her leg when I was trying to intro her to my other girls, I put blu-kote on it, kept her in a small cage with fleece liners that I changed daily and re-applied the blu-kote every other day. For her, it healed nicely.

You just need to be careful because bite wounds can turn into abscesses if not taken care of properly.

Is he lethargic? Or just tired because it's during the day? Would he normally fall asleep if put out in the playpen?

 

[xcoronaangel]

Now that I said he was lethargic/sleeping he is moving around fine again so I'm happy about that.
I work at a night emergency vet facility but we dont have any exotic docs so I really dont see what they do to chins when they get hurt. The only chin we have ever had in chewed on a cord and was shocked... he was unable to use his hind legs so they pts.

Ill go out and buy the Blu-kote. I'm going to call another doc around here and see if they want me to flush out the wounds at all.

Dust bath or no dust bath? I would assume no dust bath with the wounds.

Do you have blu-kote on hand?

MuShu got a bite like that once on her leg when I was trying to intro her to my other girls, I put blu-kote on it, kept her in a small cage with fleece liners that I changed daily and re-applied the blu-kote every other day. For her, it healed nicely.

You just need to be careful because bite wounds can turn into abscesses if not taken care of properly.

Is he lethargic? Or just tired because it's during the day? Would he normally fall asleep if put out in the playpen?

 

[xcoronaangel]

I called Dr. Greek he use to work at my clinic and he told me to get some novisan solution and clean twice daily, hold on dust baths in till he has a nice scab. Not to bring him in inless they are super bad wounds but they should heal fine.
feewwww

 

[xcoronaangel]

Thought I would let everyone know Gret is healing well. He had about 5 bites not just the ones shown. They have already started to scab up. I let him have a small amount of play time in a kennel next to Ozzy and all they did was sit next to the kennel walls by each other. I let Ozzy in with Gret and they went to the back of the play pen and slept together. I have been keeping a close eye on them. Every time I clean Gret's wounds he runs back to Ozzy and hides behind him. I seems as though they are back to normal.

I will continue to watch them during their time together. Maybe in a few months we will try small sessions with the other new boys.

Coffee seems to still be isolating himself from the other two new boys. Thinking of maybe purchasing another kennel to just house Coffee and see if he would get out and move around the kennel more that way.