Breeders Selling to Petstores

[chechinchillas]

I do not sell to pet stores. Many of the pet stores I have been in have very little knowledge on how to care for chins properly themselves, let alone educating a potential buyer. I also want to meet the people myself who are interested in purchasing an animal and I set aside an hour for each customer to go over care and questions before they can leave with the animal, plus the chins come with a care booklet to refer to. I stress to each customer several times to email me or call with any questions/situations that may come up. You lose that if you sell through a pet shop or "middle man".

 

[saphire]

I will say I do not sell to pet stores and do not wish to for I like to know where my animals go. That is a personnal choice.

I do agree nothing is guaranteed as far as good care and them coming back to me but I try. I am more comfortable proceeding this way at this time of my life.

I will say that if I don't feel right about a person, be it a pet person or breeder. The little fur ball stays with me.

I make no difference between the potentional new owners of my fur balls, wether it be a pet owner or breeder. Both are getting my chins so I need to know they will be well taken care of.

For myself, if I do not feel right about the potential buyer, well no sale.

 

[EMSChins]

Just curious Saphire - or anyone else - how do you turn a potential owner down when you are not satisfied that they will make good owners? I have often wondered how awkward this will be when it inevitably happens to me?

 

[saphire]

Well I state that I can cancel a sale at anytime up to and including the time I bring it to their home. Up until now those that I have was done before delivery of the animal.

Often your inner voice will tell you this person is not what you are looking for to care for you little ones. So listen to it for more often than ever it is right.

I will say that you can and will get some drama out of this... Personnally I can deal with that for the safty of my little ones.

I don't bring to life little creatures to knowingly put them in a position where they will not be well.

Again this is a personnal choice at this time in my life and am not judgeing those who choose to do differently. That is who I am.

 

[jbcstratton]

I agree to a degree with Dawn. In the end, the only good things about buying from a breeder is you know the chin's birthdate, you can get them as kits if that's what you want, and more than likely they are less expensive than from the pet store. I will not breed malo or fur-chewing chins, but I cannot and do not guarantee it won't pop up in animals I sell. All I can guarantee is the parents did not have it at the time they were bred.

In my jaded view of chinchilla selling, it does not make a hill of beans good how much screening you do. When rehoming for whatever reason, people often turn to craigslist or hoobly and try to sell their chin to get some money back rather than return it to the breeder, and that chin ends up in who knows whose hands anyway. Or, people who seem decent and caring at first can later decide other things interest them more and leave their animals dying in squalid conditions, no food or water. I've seen both happen.

Ultimately, even with contracts, the best one can do when selling a chin is hope for the best. For that reason, I don't see much difference in selling to screened adopters directly, or to pet stores. I do not believe selling to pet stores is ideal (ideally, all pet owners would be awesome), but I do not think it unethical either.

You said just what I was thinking on the subject!

 

[bchins]

I rarely sell to my locally owned pet store, because I really don't need to right now. But he pays about 1/2 to a 1/3 of what I sell them for, so you definitely do not make much money by selling to pet stores. Also, this pet store used to keep their chinchillas in 10 gallon tanks, until we said something. Now the chinchillas there now live in cages a bit bigger than the two story ferret nation cage. I am not USDA Certified, yet he buys from me occasionally.

 

[Lulilac]

I bought my second chinchilla, Hugo, from a pet store that breeds its own chinchillas. They have a large white chinchilla as a permanent resident whose enclosure doesn't have a wheel or any toys, just one very chewed on lava ledge and a chewed wooden house. In my imagination, they put a big fancy wheel in his display after the store closes. They probably couldn't display a chin spin during store hours since they can't sell them.

They also specialize in lizards, so the place is kept rather warm, maybe too warm for the chins. I came into the shop one hot summers day and it was very warm inside. The owner explained that he had just taken out a batch of chinchillers from the fridge and that each chin was happy chilling on one. So, yes. I'm not sure if that is okay. : ( I hope they have AC where they do their chin breeding.

Anyway, my Hugo is doing fine. At nine months he's getting huge and has an naughty teenaged attitude, but I love him.

 

[chinsNdobermans]

I used to cringe at the thought of selling to pet stores, but I now share some similar thoughts with other breeders who have posted about being able to sell, in particular, standard males. I have a lot of standard males born - my standard line is my most prolific - and often can't sell them very easily. Although right now I have a small enough herd that I often hold on to all of them for show and can keep them around until a home comes along, this is going to be more-and-more of a concern as my herd continues to grow.

Therefore, I don't criticize anyone for selling to pet stores/wholesaling. I see how it can be a necessity, and I won't say that I won't ever do it. I don't now, although I've had purchase offers and wholesale offers, but I understand it better than I used to.

Like Megan, I am torn on the issue.

 

[Andrea]

As a pet owner with no intentions to breed currently, I would not buy from a pet store. There are too many homeless animals and I personally do not want to contribute to pet overpopulation. I feel that if breeders are having trouble selling their chins, then there are many things that can be done before selling to a pet store. You could lower the price of the chin to make it a more appealing buy, you could advertise the chin more and/or you could offer a small "care package" to prospective sellers that is included in the sale price. You'd probably still make more than through wholesaling, and then your animals would not end up at a pet store. You can't really control who buys your animals since everyone can appear responsible through some effort, but you can at least prevent more pet store impulse buys. I personally feel NO animals should be sold at pet stores...but I know we are a long way off from that.

 

[Lulilac]

Here in Minneapolis/St Paul, Minnesota, there don't seem to be any Chinchilla Rescues. Our Humane Society will take chins but they get them very very rarely. Perhaps we are a bit behind the times and these sweet little monsters aren't popular enough yet to need rescuing on a large scale. : ( If I'd known of a Rescue or a near-by breeder, I would have gone there instead of the lizard store.

Sorry. Know this is a bit off topic.

 

[RDZCRanch]

To me, buying from a backyard breeder is worse than getting a chinchilla from a pet store. Regardless to how people on THIS forum feel, the vast majority of the population in the states look to pet stores to provide them with small animal pets and pet supplies. Considering there have been responsible breeders of rats, hamsters, guinea pigs and mice for much longer than chinchilla hobby breeders and people generally don't know to look for them, I don't think many people are going to look for reputable chinchilla breeders. Other people that know about responsible breeders just don't care that they're there and prefer to go to a backyard breeder.

I wholesale on occasion. I know a lot of pet people don't like to think about it, but there are those of us that do pelt and support pelting and when we can't move a chin, the choice is to pelt them or wholesale them. Not to mention, I've heard enough horror stories from pet people that started with pet store chins that weren't healthy. There are a few large backyard breeders that I know of in my state that primarily wholesale. They get their breeders off craigslist and they will breed anything with the appropriate reproductive organs. In my opinion, they should not be the primary source of chinchillas for pet stores. People who go to pet stores don't DESERVE an unhealthy or malo chinchilla. No one does. I can't promise my chinchillas are free of malo, but I sure as heck don't knowingly breed malo chins and sell them to pet stores like the backyard breeders around here.

 

[Twilight Chinchillas]

I totally agree with you Tabitha! We have our fair share around here too, and it just unnerves me to no end!

 

[ticklechin]

Why not sell to a petstore, no matter how well you as a breeder check out a new owner there is no way to know if that person is a liar about how they are going to take care of your chin, and as a new owner who needs the hassle of someone being nosey about your personal situation and acting like maybe you are not good enough to get one of "their chinchillas" and signing useless contracts that no one enforces nor are enforceable at least here in California, its a chance you take when you breed and sell chins so why not wholesale chinchillas. Treat your breeding as a business if you are going to do it.

 

[tunes]

Breeders usually want to buy high quality females, not males. When you only need 1 male to 6 or more females, there are a LOT of leftover males of every mutation. I am one of the few people I know who is constantly looking for males because I breed in pairs, trios, or colonies on a large scale. Pet owners want the color of the month, not standards. Standards are too boring. Watch the classifieds. "Any color but standard" is the general rule. So where do you think all those standards are going?

The pet owners on this forum are anti-pelt. They are anti-pet store. A lot of them are anti-standards. You can't say "well, breeders need to quit breeding." It's not going to happen and it's ridiculous to think it is just because someone thinks chins shouldn't be in pet stores. How's that no breeding working out with dogs, cats, and other animals?The pet owners who are anti-pet stores aren't lining up to buy those leftover animals, so that leaves 3 choices; pelt, research (and that's a REAL treat), or wholesale.

Dawn nailed it on the head. Those contracts are silly and cute and they make you feel like you DID SOMETHING, but it's a crock. Been there, done that. Also been where Riven was. Sold to a "friend" only to have her screw me 6 ways to Sunday and had her lie to my face before having to track my girl down through 2 owners and finally got her back. Not before a whole lot of crap slinging and stupidity happened though. So yeah, you screen, and you sign your little piece of paper, and if that makes you feel good about yourself - yeehaw. But in the real world, it makes no difference in the end. People lie to get what they want and they will treat the animal the way they want when they get it home, despite what you tell them or teach them. Its no different than someone buying from a pet store.

 

[Laurie]

I'm a pet owner and I'm not anti pet store however pet stores don't carry the food I need for my healthy chinchilla--nor do they offer anything at a reasonable price as far as hay and chew toys go.

I do agree most pet owners are against pelting because they love their animal as a pet and not a product. That doesn't make pet owners bad just as it doesn't make breeders bad

Pet owners on this forum should be thankful to the knowledge breeders out there even if they do pelt--without the ranchers and breeders we would not know much of what we do know about chinchillas today. Had it not been for the man who first took the wild chinchilla from it's natural habitat and introduced it to America where it was cultivated and changed to become the domestic chinchilla we have today we would not have chinchillas as pets or most likely this forum.

 

[bchins]

I agree with everything Tunes says. Also, think about it, most pet stores charge alot for their chinchillas- you can usually get that same chinchilla for 1/2 as much from a breeder. You usually won't be getting people who aren't going to take care of their chinchilla coming and buying a $160 standard grey from a pet store (I think that's how much they charge at Petco for them), especially not in this economy.

 

[Amphy64]

So where do you think all those standards are going?

Well, one is sitting on my bed demanding skritches.
I do agree that standards, especially males, can be harder to home, I've heard that from several breeders (my chin's breeder also told me that beige males are a bit harder to home than other mutations). Still, if people will buy them from the petshop, they'd buy them from the original breeder too, surely - most pet owners seem to have standard greys.
Could awareness be the main issue, would it make it easier if breeders advertised more? Perhaps they could arrange with a petstore for the petstore to refer anyone wanting a chinchilla to them, the breeder providing the store with up-to-date information (and photos if possible) on the animals they have available. The petstore could then receive a commission on the sale of any animals made through a referral from them (the breeder would still make more than if they sold directly to a petstore. The commission would have to be enough to make it worth the petstore's while, also taking into account they would then not have to house or care for the animals themselves). Breeder's directories, chin people attending other small animal shows (not necessarily taking chins, just info., I think that's something the NCS is trying to do. We have regional secretaries but maybe we should have a directory too, hmm - thanks to the internet that kind of thing can so easily be up to date), anything like that could help breeders find homes for animals.

I think the most important thing is that prospective new owners get the right information. If a breeder who sells to a petshop can make sure the petshop will give that, then that's not so bad. Sure, they may ignore it, but at least then they're more informed - I really don't think it's in the best interests of chin or new owner if someone buys one without knowing the lifespan, for instance, they may still manage fine but it'd be a bit of a shock if you didn't realise that you just bought an animal that will outlive the average dog!
Of course a screening process can't enable a breeder to be totally sure a chin is going to a good home. However, it does allow them to be sure an owner at least knows how to care for a chinchilla, and to rule some people out. I appreciated being asked questions by my chin's breeder, it showed me he cared where his animal's ended up, if he hadn't asked me questions I would have been considerably more reluctant to buy a chin from them.

Pet owners on this forum should be thankful to the knowledge breeders out there even if they do pelt--without the ranchers and breeders we would not know much of what we do know about chinchillas today. Had it not been for the man who first took the wild chinchilla from it's natural habitat and introduced it to America where it was cultivated and changed to become the domestic chinchilla we have today we would not have chinchillas as pets or most likely this forum.

No, since chinchillas are kept as pets I do appreciate the knowledge gained about the species, even relatively recently a lot has and continues to be learned. However, it's maybe better to be realistic - if I understand correctly many ranchers were (and sometimes still are) very anti-pet. The (protected) wild chinchilla wasn't taken out of it's habitat so we could have them as pets (not automatically in the interests of the species anyway).

 

[chinsNdobermans]

Well, one is sitting on my bed demanding skritches.
I do agree that standards, especially males, can be harder to home, I've heard that from several breeders (my chin's breeder also told me that beige males are a bit harder to home than other mutations). Still, if people will buy them from the petshop, they'd buy them from the original breeder too, surely - most pet owners seem to have standard greys.
Could awareness be the main issue, would it make it easier if breeders advertised more? Perhaps they could arrange with a petstore for the petstore to refer anyone wanting a chinchilla to them, the breeder providing the store with up-to-date information (and photos if possible) on the animals they have available. The petstore could then receive a commission on the sale of any animals made through a referral from them (the breeder would still make more than if they sold directly to a petstore. The commission would have to be enough to make it worth the petstore's while, also taking into account they would then not have to house or care for the animals themselves). Breeder's directories, chin people attending other small animal shows (not necessarily taking chins, just info., I think that's something the NCS is trying to do. We have regional secretaries but maybe we should have a directory too, hmm - thanks to the internet that kind of thing can so easily be up to date), anything like that could help breeders find homes for animals.

I think the most important thing is that prospective new owners get the right information. If a breeder who sells to a petshop can make sure the petshop will give that, then that's not so bad. Sure, they may ignore it, but at least then they're more informed - I really don't think it's in the best interests of chin or new owner if someone buys one without knowing the lifespan, for instance, they may still manage fine but it'd be a bit of a shock if you didn't realise that you just bought an animal that will outlive the average dog!
Of course a screening process can't enable a breeder to be totally sure a chin is going to a good home. However, it does allow them to be sure an owner at least knows how to care for a chinchilla, and to rule some people out. I appreciated being asked questions by my chin's breeder, it showed me he cared where his animal's ended up, if he hadn't asked me questions I would have been considerably more reluctant to buy a chin from them.



No, since chinchillas are kept as pets I do appreciate the knowledge gained about the species, even relatively recently a lot has and continues to be learned. However, it's maybe better to be realistic - if I understand correctly many ranchers were (and sometimes still are) very anti-pet. The (protected) wild chinchilla wasn't taken out of it's habitat so we could have them as pets (not automatically in the interests of the species anyway).

Here's the big problem I see with the above bolded text: referrals take away that element of "impulse purchasing" that make pet stores so much preferred over a breeder to buy a pet.

My best friend does it all the time with people looking for chins at her pet store, refers them to me, and I've had a few calls but never had a single purchase - they always end up at a pet store because my schedule isn't convenient for them (I'm not open 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. every day) and I ask too many questions.

The pet store would probably make squat in that arrangement, because I am betting few of the "referrals" would actually make a purchase.

I'm not saying impulse purchases are good - they aren't, and they're why chinchillas need rescue at all - but they're how pet stores make money off of animals, more often than not.

 

[ticklechin]

I have to wonder who these people are that "impulse buy" a animal that costs 150.00+ at a pet store and with buying all pet store cages and supplies can run another 200-300.00 dollars. Its those bargain hunter owners who scope out CL for free chinchillas and cages and those that try to grind down the price of a chin in the classifieds because they can't afford it and can they please have a free cage too are the ones you all should be worried about, not people who buy from pet stores. Those are the ones who get over their heads by hoarding and those are the chins that don't get to a vet-the owner has no stake in the investment of the chin I:E the 600.00 initial investment to prompt them to do what is needed to make sure the chin lives.

 

[starleomach]

I have seen impulse buys (or attempts) someone gets it in their head they want a chinchilla. Call me and leave a message I will call back and hour or so later and they will say Oh never mind we got one here or here, or when I say I have nothing ready but I will in a week or so they will say oh that is too long to wait. The worst was last week or so someone called because THAT DAY their chinchilla passed away from breeding complications, they wanted a new baby female to put with their male. I explained that you cannot put a baby female in with an adult male, She would DIE and blah, blah blah... They were coming the next day to get a male friend...keep in mind I did have ample female kits and even an adult female, they called back few hours later and said since you didn't have what we want we did find a female kit 8 weeks old and are on the way to pick her up....It is sad, they hear what they want and so many people want it NOW