Appa is small?

Chinchilla & Hedgehog Pet Forum

Help Support Chinchilla & Hedgehog Pet Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

IvoryBolt

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2014
Messages
84
I posted last night in a FB forum about Appa only being 280g at almost 4 months old (April 19th is his birthday). They're trying to say it's because his cage is too big and I let him out, so it's inhibiting his size...which I'm sort of not buying. Chinchillas in the wild aren't inhibited on play, and I feel like he can do more IN his cage than out of it. Most of the stuff I've read (or can find) says that letting a kit out for playtime is FINE, but all these people and breeders are saying that it's no better than a deathball, that he's going to stroke out, over heat, etc, etc. The size thing, I can kind of see, but even still...as long as he's consistently gaining weight, whether he's on the small side or not, why is it such a big deal? Are there any studies showing that kits let out for x amount of time are significantly smaller? Or that it will for sure, without a doubt, cause death from heat stroke/heart attack/seizure/etc?

I hate conflicting info, and want to clear this up.
 
I wouldn't think that would make him small, although I have heard not to let baby chins play too long (I'm not sure it's true though). I think it's probably genetic, I mean, humans come in all shapes and sizes, why don't chinchillas? I wouldn't worry about it, if he eats, sleeps, poops, plays I'd say he's good! He's just a growing little boy! :)
 
They say not to let kits play too long because they need to be using their energy for growing, not burning it off while running around.

I've always been told that short playtime's are okay for them.
 
Is size an issue? It's not like I'm forcing him to play...I simply open his doors, and most of the time he comes out, though there are times when he'd rather stay inside his cage. So idk.
 
I love how people compare to wild chinchillas. Just for reference a wild chinchilla matures around 500 grams. So if all that exercise is good... don't be surprised if your kit winds up much smaller than he should. Kits can over heat quickly and do not regulate themselves very well. I have had 2 customers over the yrs admit they let the kits run around till they passed out and in both cases they wound up dieing as a result. I have heard from pet owners who's chins had seizures from allowing too long of a playtime... things can happen. Moderation is the key. 5 mins here and there is fine but people don't understand that. If a little is good, a lot must be great right? Wrong. Its much easier to inform people no play time than to convince them to limit it. Kits should be in smaller cages and be moved to bigger ones as they grow. How large is you cage? 280 is very small for a kit his age. Kits are normally weaned at 200 grams. I would expect at 4ish months old for him to be close to the 400 gram mark. What you choose to do is up to you. Just be aware of the risks
 
Why is size such a huge concern, though? If they're naturally built to get 500g, why do breeders push for much, much bigger? The only benefit I can see from a bigger chin, is a bigger pelt...and well...most of us keep chins as pets. See what I'm getting at? ;D
 
The larger size inst just for pelts. Yes it does make for a larger pelt but it also allows for bigger hips which leads to less birthing complications. All reputable breeders breed to the breed 'standard'. If we all bred for pet chins the quality and health would suffer as a result. A smaller than average chin can be a early sign of potential health issues. If you child wasn't growing at an appropriate rate your doctor would be concerned something may be wrong.... so by telling you your kit is smaller than average is just a heads up... he may be fine and just a smaller than average chin or it could be that something isn't what it should be.
 
That makes sense. I'll definitely keep an eye out for any issues. He's not going to be bred. Strictly pet.
 
First, from the pictures your chin doesn't look small for his build. That said, I would still limit his play times...period. For reasons mentioned young chinchillas especially can over exert themselves leading to heat stroke or at the very least, less growth than expected. He's not "too small" for his age...there is no such thing. There is smaller than average which he is but he DOES look healthy. I'd say to restrict his out of cage playtime a bit anyhow. As far as comparing to the wild...yeah, not a good comparison. Plain and simple whether it be chinchillas or dogs...they're domestic now and have different requirements than their wild counterparts.
 
First, from the pictures your chin doesn't look small for his build. That said, I would still limit his play times...period. For reasons mentioned young chinchillas especially can over exert themselves leading to heat stroke or at the very least, less growth than expected. He's not "too small" for his age...there is no such thing. There is smaller than average which he is but he DOES look healthy. I'd say to restrict his out of cage playtime a bit anyhow. As far as comparing to the wild...yeah, not a good comparison. Plain and simple whether it be chinchillas or dogs...they're domestic now and have different requirements than their wild counterparts.

Do you, or does anyone have links to these studies? My point is, if they don't over exert themselves in cage, why would they outside of it? I like to research stuff like this, is all, and everything I can find says it's fine to let babies out...he normally just sits in my lap, or crawls up to his dust bath box (He's in my closet, which is huge and ventilated, so there's a tower of shoes/boots he likes to sit on). It's not like he's running around crazy or anything, so I really don't think a heat stroke will happen...haha.

I'm glad he's not 'too small'...I figured they all had their own weight and growth patterns, just like everything else. Thanks =]

The only reason I brought up wild, is that they don't have restricted playtime in the wild and don't get heat stroke. While they're domesticated, they're also still biologically very similar to their wild counterparts ^-^
 
I think one problem that really confuses things is that not all kits have a problem with over exerting themselves. So you end up with lots of people that have allowed play from day one of bringing the kit home and then just a few that had a kit have an issue. The thing is though you don't know if your chin is going to be one of those until something bad happens, so most people figure better safe then sorry. If he is mostly just sitting on your lap or otherwise not bouncing around like a crazy ball of fur (like most kits do) you're fine, it's not so much the out of the cage time that is the issue it's the bouncing around and using up all their energy that needs to be limited, same reason for no wheel until they are older.

If you want to compare to wild chins and wonder as to why they don't get heat stroke take a look at where they live in the wild, just taking one area they live for example it gets down to below 30F at night, and the average humidity is less then 50% (sometimes as low as 4%). Chinchillas are most active during the cooler parts of the day (sleeping during the coldest and hottest), so unless your closest is close to 30F with less then 50% humidity then I don't think it's a good comparison. The below 75 temps are the upper limit they can handle not the normal temp, adult can handle it better then kits. I don't have a study to link but just think about it, with a young animal, you wouldn't expect a human baby or child to be able to handle being in the hot sun all day, where as there are lots of jobs that require that of adults. There has been studies on other animals (like dogs) as well proving unlimited play/long walks too young does harm.
Also kits in the wild don't really have much time to play, when it's cool enough to be out of the burrow they need to be finding food, unlike our chins that are fed in the cage and don't need to forage for food every day. They end up smaller, around 500 grams or less, and have a much shorter lifespan, less then 10 years in the wild.
 
Look at that cutie! Appa yip yip ( I take it he is named after Avatar?)

What are you feeding him? That could contribute to weight. Not all pellets are made equal. Does he get treats? If so how often? At his age it is good for him to have unlimited high quality pellets and fresh hay and almost no treats besides wood sticks. As a chin can only eat so much, all that he consumes should be nutritious at this age.
 
I was not basing my restrictions on any formal studies, I was basing them off of the dozens of dead kits I've seen posted about or have personally been told about by customers...over the decade that I've been in chinchillas. It's not worth the risk...
 
I think that playtime should be limited for kut under 6 months of age. I speak from experience since 2 of my customers allowed their newly acquired cutie to play until they dropped. Literally! and this is after being given advice that would have saved the little one's lives. I have also had one person kill a kit by letting it play in a death ball.
 
Its sad but there have not been many formal studies done. But many many breeders have had similar experiences over the years and as such we all advise limiting play time for the safety of he younger chins. I work in the vet field. I know all the time, money and resources that go into these studies. No one is willing to spend all that just to prove that play time should be limited when there should be studies on malo or heart murmurs and such.... so the general consensus from many many breeders over the years has proven to be valid. 2 breeders have personally posted kit deaths, I myself have seen kit deaths due to play time, and Iknow of other breeders who have seen it as well.
 
I think one problem that really confuses things is that not all kits have a problem with over exerting themselves. So you end up with lots of people that have allowed play from day one of bringing the kit home and then just a few that had a kit have an issue. The thing is though you don't know if your chin is going to be one of those until something bad happens, so most people figure better safe then sorry. If he is mostly just sitting on your lap or otherwise not bouncing around like a crazy ball of fur (like most kits do) you're fine, it's not so much the out of the cage time that is the issue it's the bouncing around and using up all their energy that needs to be limited, same reason for no wheel until they are older.

If you want to compare to wild chins and wonder as to why they don't get heat stroke take a look at where they live in the wild, just taking one area they live for example it gets down to below 30F at night, and the average humidity is less then 50% (sometimes as low as 4%). Chinchillas are most active during the cooler parts of the day (sleeping during the coldest and hottest), so unless your closest is close to 30F with less then 50% humidity then I don't think it's a good comparison. The below 75 temps are the upper limit they can handle not the normal temp, adult can handle it better then kits. I don't have a study to link but just think about it, with a young animal, you wouldn't expect a human baby or child to be able to handle being in the hot sun all day, where as there are lots of jobs that require that of adults. There has been studies on other animals (like dogs) as well proving unlimited play/long walks too young does harm.
Also kits in the wild don't really have much time to play, when it's cool enough to be out of the burrow they need to be finding food, unlike our chins that are fed in the cage and don't need to forage for food every day. They end up smaller, around 500 grams or less, and have a much shorter lifespan, less then 10 years in the wild.

That does make sense..I didn't really think about how cool it got in the evening. I knew the dog one, as my boyfriend's uncle is a vet, and he says that in smooshed face dogs, anything over 85 is lethal to them, so he advises no walks in that weather, just quick pee trips, and walks when it's cooler.

I do sort of wonder if the kits that die from 'over exertion' may have had pre existing conditions, or weren't being kept cool enough...but that's my speculation.

Look at that cutie! Appa yip yip ( I take it he is named after Avatar?)

What are you feeding him? That could contribute to weight. Not all pellets are made equal. Does he get treats? If so how often? At his age it is good for him to have unlimited high quality pellets and fresh hay and almost no treats besides wood sticks. As a chin can only eat so much, all that he consumes should be nutritious at this age.

Haha yeah! He's named after avatar. He's getting Mazuri pellets, and 2nd cut alfalfa hay. No treats, just fresh apple wood =3

I was not basing my restrictions on any formal studies, I was basing them off of the dozens of dead kits I've seen posted about or have personally been told about by customers...over the decade that I've been in chinchillas. It's not worth the risk...

I do sort of wonder if the kits that die from 'over exertion' may have had pre existing conditions, or weren't being kept cool enough...but that's my speculation.

I think that playtime should be limited for kut under 6 months of age. I speak from experience since 2 of my customers allowed their newly acquired cutie to play until they dropped. Literally! and this is after being given advice that would have saved the little one's lives. I have also had one person kill a kit by letting it play in a death ball.

I do sort of wonder if the kits that die from 'over exertion' may have had pre existing conditions, or weren't being kept cool enough...but that's my speculation. (also, I don't do death balls....)

Its sad but there have not been many formal studies done. But many many breeders have had similar experiences over the years and as such we all advise limiting play time for the safety of he younger chins. I work in the vet field. I know all the time, money and resources that go into these studies. No one is willing to spend all that just to prove that play time should be limited when there should be studies on malo or heart murmurs and such.... so the general consensus from many many breeders over the years has proven to be valid. 2 breeders have personally posted kit deaths, I myself have seen kit deaths due to play time, and Iknow of other breeders who have seen it as well.

Yeah, I know about all the money that goes into these studies, but it doesn't have to be. Even if it's something as simple as breeders keeping track of their customers who have had kits pass. Though people lie, and as we all know, heat and lack of ventilation is a big killer, and there are always going to be people who say they were doing everything right. haha. I'll just keep his playtime shorter...if he starts to over do it, he'll be put away. But really, most of the time, he's in my lap eating, or on the pile of shoes, watching me. Not much wall surfing or bouncing around =3 (he's rather calm for a kit, with just enough hyper-ness to keep me on my toes xD)
 
well that's why we are all sharing our experiences for you. Hopefully your chin is one of the ones that do well on all the extra exercise but too many of us have seen the bad side of that as well. Its hard to get enough input back from customers unless its a negative thing.
 
well that's why we are all sharing our experiences for you. Hopefully your chin is one of the ones that do well on all the extra exercise but too many of us have seen the bad side of that as well. Its hard to get enough input back from customers unless its a negative thing.

yeah, I do appreciate all the feedback ^-^ I hate how people aren't willing to admit they made a mistake...mistakes are something to learn from, and others can learn from the very mistakes you made!
 
Back
Top