Alfalfa for geriatric chinchilla?

[Barbra Salas]

Hi all! My 24 year old little man has been on Mazuri pellets and timothy hay for all of his life with the occasional oats, rose hip etc as treats. However, we recently went through a throat infection followed by a UTI that was really hard on him. The antibiotics themselves did a number on his gut. He has now been on cisapride and his regular probiotic for a while and may possibly just always be. He's doing well, but we're having trouble with consistent eating issues. We still supplement with critical care every day, but we're having trouble finding something that he will consistently eat when we aren't around. Even with trying to moisten his pellets and/or add a little dash of grape juice (from fresh squeezed grapes mind you. He lives well,) he won't consistently eat them. And he will try new hays at first (2nd cut timothy, orchard grass etc) and then abandon them.

All this to say that we need to be able to leave the house and sleep sometimes. He has never had alfalfa cubes or loose hay as a rule. Only once a year maybe? I just never buy it because I've always heard how bad it is. Plus it's in his pellet. Do you think with his age and situation, alfalfa might be warranted? Do you think any problems that might arise from alfalfa feeding might be too far off to worry about at his age? He also needs fattening up. He lost a lot of weight while he was sick. He's slowly gaining, but he still isn't to his normal weight at all. He's at 489 and his normal weight is 520.

Thanks for any input!

 

[Amethyst]

The primary reason alfalfa is considered "bad" for adult chins is because some chins are genetically predisposed to urinary tract stones and it's high in calcium which is one thing the stones can be made of. You can try adding some alfalfa to his diet and see if that helps, I'm not sure how quickly urinary tract stones form in chins, but if you are just adding some that might take awhile and he might not even be one that has an issue. You can also ask your vet and see what they say, they would know his health status better. Being a legume instead of a grass alfalfa is also much higher in fat and protien then grass hay, 2nd cut timothy should be your daily hay, but you could also try 3rd cut timothy, it's mostly leaves making it higher in fat and protein as well as tastier but also softer. Another option is oat hay, if you haven't tried it, which is also higher in fat. Here is a basic rundown of the differences between hays in case you want to know Types of Hay, Explained I know a lot of people make hay mixes, so rather then just giving one type mix a few types together along with some alfalfa, that way he still gets the grass hay, but if he really likes the alfalfa he gets the flavor of the alfalfa but not too much alfalfa hay.

Personally I wouldn't use any fruit juice, way too high in sugar which can cause health issues. Even if you don't run into the issues like seizures or digestive upset (the more long term issues aren't really a factor at his age since they take years to develop) it can still cause tooth decay. It's up to you though, it's your chin.

 

[Barbra Salas]

Hi! Thanks! I'm not actually using fruit juice. I'm dripping a few drops from a squeezed grape onto the top. My vet knows about it. He's not eating it reliably anyway, so I guess that's moot. :/

We have tried second cut, orchard grass, meadow hay, oat (which both of ours completely rejected) and coastal. He was eating the orchard for a little while, but now he's not. The question is out to the vet. She uses a texting service for these kinds of questions. I just thought I'd see what you fine folk have to say. I did just order a hay block mix of timothy/alfalfa from small pet select for at least an option. Right now my son is home from school and can give him things in the middle of the day. But when we get back to being gone long stretches of day, it's not going to be easy to get him enough critical care feedings. (He only eats it off a spoon... plastic only at that. Old age pickiness.) I'm afraid to order the 3rd cut timothy because at this point we have 2 bags and 2 boxes of hay at the house. None of which he is eating. Luckily the young one eats all of it except the oat hay. One of the boxes is the oat hay, and it's going to someone else since both boys hate it. I think they're crazy because it smells amazing. ;-)

But I'm happy to hear any and all suggestions! He's SO much better than he was, but we really need to get him eating a little more independently for this to be sustainable.

 

[Barbra Salas]

I found the third cut from small pet select on Amazon in a 12 oz bag so I wouldn't have to spend all the shipping. So fingers crossed he actually likes this one.

 

[Amethyst]

Ah ok if it's just a couple drops that isn't too bad, I was thinking you meant you were using it to wet the pellets, like to make them soft. The pickiness with hay seems to be common for some chins, you would think that say timothy hay is timothy hay but sometimes brand really does matter and "good quality" hay doesn't always mean what they prefer. My boy isn't really a fan of oat hay either, he will eat it at first then decide he doesn't want it anymore, he is around 16/17 (I don't know exact age) but he as been like that since he was younger so it's nothing new for him. I know it's not an option for most but the hay mine likes the best is local hay from the feed store, and especially the hay I grow myself, I have a small hay field on my acreage, and he eats almost all of it.

I think the timothy/alfalfa mix is a safer way to go then just straight alfalfa, if he will eat it, that way he is getting a better balance. Also have you tried making critical care cookies? That might be another option if he is willing to eat those.

 

[Barbra Salas]

Oh no. Apologies. I'm wetting them with water and then adding the drops. But the stinker has lately just been licking the pellets. Sigh. Mine has always been a picky prince too but this is a whole new level. At least he still eats the cc! You are so lucky with your own hay! I dried my own organic dandelion leaves from the store bc it really helped with his initial constipation and he LOVED it.

I'll keep you updated if he likes any of this new stuff. I've thought about making cookies. What is your best method?

 

[Amethyst]

Here is one recipe I got from a chinchilla FB page that is just plain. I've seen people mix ground up hay and treats into them to make them more interesting too.

 

[Barbra Salas]

Great! Thanks! He nibbled at hay and one pellet today. One can hope it keeps getting better.

 

[Saffron]

Amethyst's recipe is basically the same one I make. I mix the critical care with purified water until it's a bit thick. Then I let it sit about 10 minutes to soak up the water. I want it to have the consistency of cookie dough, so I add water if to thick or more cc if it's to thin. I line a cookie sheet with parchment paper, scoop out about a half teaspoon of the "dough", roll it into a ball and put it on the sheet. Once I have all the "dough" in balls on the cookie sheet I flatten them. I'll bake them at 225 degrees for 30 minutes. If they aren't done I bake them a little longer. I bake them until they feel firm with a dried look and lift intact off the parchment paper.

Since he likes critical care try dusting his pellets and hay with it to encourage him to eat. Worked for one my chins.

 

[Barbra Salas]

This is great! Thanks! He actually hates the critical care in dust form. Go figure. He likes it best very soupy.

 

[Barbra Salas]

Vet just got back to me and said she'd be fine with him eating alfalfa as much as he wanted at this point just to keep him eating.

 

[Barbra Salas]

The cookies were exciting to him for a literal hot minute. Now he wants nothing to do with them. I think that's why he only likes it soupy and no other way. The flavor is too strong otherwise.

 

[Barbra Salas]

Our third cutting Timothy finally arrived from Small Pet Select, and he LOVES IT! He has been done with critical care but couldn't seem to fully switch to his hay or pellets. Just eating a little of both. But this hay is the first thing he has excitedly devoured since his illness!!!!!

 

[Barbra Salas]

One last quick question. Do either of you have experience weaning off of Cisapride? He was starting to show signs that the dose was now too much (red ears, slight agitation, heavier breathing.) Plus he would eat better and seem more perky near the end of the 12 hours. And poos were MUCH better after hay. I gave him only .05 ml compared to the normal .07 this morning. He seems to be tolerating that better. Just wondering if you have any experience with this. Previously no Cisapride was very bad news but I'm wondering if he's improving and when to cut back or stop. Question is also into the vet but it will probably be a bit until I hear.

 

[Jawramik]

Glad to hear you finally found some hay your picky old man gets excited about. My girl can be a bit of a hay snob. She likes the nice long, crunchy strands and absolutely will not touch it if it's short and broken up. I've had the best luck with Farmer Dave's hay. She likes Small Pet Select when the quality is good, but the last few boxes I got from them were pretty dusty and full of the short, broken bits that she won't touch, so I've been sticking with Farmer Dave's lately, which she gobbles up.

One trick I've found to get her to eat "substandard" hay is to just change up the ways I offer it to her. Instead of putting it in her hay feeder like normal, I'll instead stuff bits of hay into things like finger traps, willow balls, and cholla logs. When I do that, she'll often eat hay she normally wouldn't touch. It comes in handy when I get to the bottom of the hay box and all that's left are the shorter, broken strands. While I'm waiting for a new box to arrive, I'll stuff the bottom dregs into various hollow chew toys, and she'll eat it like that.

 

[Barbra Salas]

Yeah! I had wondered about Farmer Dave's. Maybe I'll try that next. And they are such funny babies.

 

[Jawramik]

Yeah! I had wondered about Farmer Dave's. Maybe I'll try that next. And they are such funny babies.

Farmer Dave's is great. Their hay quality has consistently been the best of any brand I've tried. I also got some apple wood perches from them that are great, and sometimes I'll get some chew sticks of wood that's harder to find from other vendors, like pear and blueberry.

I will say that their hay ain't cheap. Pretty sure it's the most expensive hay I've found. But buying cheaper hay that she doesn't eat is just a waste of money, so I'd rather pay more if it means I'm getting hay she'll actually eat reliably.

Just curious, have you tried hay cubes (or something similar) with your old man? My girl loves hay cubes (which is a little weird, considering that hay cubes are basically just all the bits of hay she'd normally refuse to eat compressed into a cube, but whatever ). I know they're not really a substitute for loose hay, but since it sounds like your biggest concern right now is just increasing his caloric intake, they might be worth trying.

 

[Barbra Salas]

Yeah he hates the hay cubes. hahahaha. He's uber picky right now. He does love dried dandelion and that has helped a lot of times with the constipation.

 

[Barbra Salas]

We have spent SO much money on a variety of hay delivery systems and hay types in the past few months it's not even funny. I would gladly pay whatever for a hay that he would eat every day consistently.

 

[Amethyst]

I think that is one of the more frustrating things, there is no "best hay" for all chins. There are some chins that love the online hay vendor hay, but only specific ones, others actually prefer the cheaper hay like ones sold by Kaytee, and everything in between. Even then when you find what hay your chin(s) like, since hay is a crop, it can vary so much from harvest to harvest and even just from one side of the field to the other! So you can end up with them liking it for awhile, and then the next bag/box you get they decide they don't like it anymore.