A question about my female's litter's father! (Did that make sense? LoL)

[ilovemytwochins]

Hello everyone!

I am new to this forum, I want to introduce myself! My name is Melissa and I have two chins: Max (std gray) and Ruby (violet). When I adopted them last Aug., I didn't realize Ruby was pregnant. Well, she successfully had a kit in Sept. and he grew up beautiful and healthy! I did not realize that when females give birth, the male needs to come out immediately (is that right?) because she goes into heat soon afterwards.
Well, lo and behold, two days ago...Ruby gave birth again! I was lucky enough to be there when she was delivering and I was able to take Max out and put him in a seperate cage (he is not happy about that). Ruby had a total of THREE kits! Two are doing wonderful and the third I am having to supplement frequently. I took him to the exotic vet yesterday and they said that everything sounded good internally, that he was just weak. He can't stand by himself yet, poor little guy. So I take him out and feed him and massage him...then put him back in with mom and the other two. Ruby does not ignore him, she is rather protective of him actually...she will stay over him to keep him warm.

So question #1 is when can Max return to the cage? My husband and I plan on getting him neutered (we don't want anymore litters), but I know that he would like to be back with Ruby. Approx. how long is a heat cycle?

 

[tunes]

Welcome Melissa.

He can go back in after 10 days, but as long as he is not castrated, there is again the chance of pregnancy. I would not put him back in until he is castrated. You've already had one breedback, mom doesn't need another pregnancy so close to the other two.

As far as the little guy that you are supplementing, are you keeping track of his weight? Sometimes with triplets, one gets pushed away, and if he's already weaker he may be the one. You might consider rotating him so that he can have some alone time with mom and hopefully get more nursing in. Keep up the gentle massage on the baby. Hopefully it will help.

 

[Claire D]

I'd get the male neutered now if you can - that way he can have his 6 weeks recovery away from the female and then he'll be ready to re-introduce once the mother has weaned the little ones.

Good luck with the small kit - you could rotate them rather then hand feeding - if the mother is caring for him and he is suckling then you can rotate the other 2 out for an hour and leave the little one in with the mother so it feeds.
As Peggy has said, keep an eye on their weights - weighing them daily at the same time helps keep a more accurate track of gain/loss because their weight can fluctuate during the day.

 

[Veronica]

Or you could keep the girls with the mom and boys with the dad and start up two cages.

Max & Ruby - you must have a preschooler in the house. Cute names.

 

[DaphnesandFreddysmom]

Or you could keep the girls with the mom and boys with the dad and start up two cages.

Max & Ruby - you must have a preschooler in the house. Cute names.

I was thinking the same thing! My kids love that show.

 

[Riven]

Actually, some say that a female will actually start coming back into heat BEFORE birthing, one would think that the contractions would prevent a "pre-birth breedback", but from what I understand is that it is possible.

Good luck and welcome to the forum.

 

[Diva Chins]

Or you could keep the girls with the mom and boys with the dad and start up two cages.

Max & Ruby - you must have a preschooler in the house. Cute names.

That's a really good idea, I didn't even think of that.
If you decide to keep them all, you could most definitely have the male kits in with dad (After weaning) and females in with mom (after weaning). My only advice would be to make sure you have some spare cages on hand just in case some don't get along, I have heard stories about dads attacking their sons. But it's always a good idea to have spare cages on hand when you have two chins living together, same sex or opposite. Good luck, congrats, and welcome to the forum!

 

[ilovemytwochins]

Thanks for all the replies thus far. Yes, my two year old son's favorite show is "Max and Ruby"...in fact, the first baby Ruby had last year was Baby Huffington )

Let me clarify something major that I somehow (sleep deprivation!) did not say right! I have NOT seen baby #3 nurse from Ruby. I have watched the other two and they do not pick on him; when Ruby was taking an alfalfa break, one of his littermates was laying with him. I am keeping track of their weights with a food scale. Babies #1 and #2 are within 50 grams. Baby #3 is up to 40 grams from 38 grams last night. So, I am the sole feeder- I have a newborn again! If anyone has been through this before, please let me know there is hope!!!! I have grown so attached to this little guy, my husband and I have named him "Tiny Tim", lol. I am cleaning him up after feedings with warm, moistened cotton balls, as well as massaging his genitals.

Thank you EVERYONE for reading and helping out!

 

[Claire D]

Yes there is hope - keep plugging away with the feeds - hourly at first and then when he gets bigger/stronger you can go to 2 hourly. The fact that he is putting on weight is a good sign. Is his tail curly or flat? Kits with full bellies have curly tails - that's what you are looking for.

 

[Veronica]

I had to supplement for a baby boy. The mother was nursing, but her production must have been low because he wasn't gaining hardly anything from her. I supplemented with goat's milk (I didn't add anything, though some do) that I got from a local goat farmer. The farmer's goat's milk was fresh and cheap ($1/qt) and you can freeze it to defrost a little at a time as you need it.

After a time, I discontinued supplementing because "Billy" was growing like a weed. I had to start up again though, because his mom turned on him when he was about five weeks old. Of course by this time he was eating pellets and hay, so it wasn't round-the-clock feeding. He really loved the goat's milk and grew nicely on it. He turned out to be a real sweet chin and I was very pleased with the girl who bought him.

Billy's before & after pictures are attached.

My hand feeding experience great, but certainly others can tell you the intensity of every-two-hour feedings day & night. Good luck.

 

[Riven]

Being small he might not have the full ability to suck properly. Keep feeding!

Are the other kits gaining okay?

 

[VolunteerChin22]

One of my last triplets needed handfeeding because of fighting with the other kits and he did great. Once he gets the hang of it he will suck it right out of the dropper. And honestly the 2hr rotations actually helped me sleep better after about the second or third week, lol.

 

[ilovemytwochins]

Some pictures and one more question...

Hi all!
Alright, I just finished another feeding and we attempted a chin baby photo session. "Sit still!" Doesn't work very well :tease:

Anyways- The first picture is a sibling shot and I am sure that it is clear which kit is Tiny Tim. The second picture is Tiny Tim. As you can see, his legs are still somewhat in the fetal position and his eyes are not as open as his littermates. The third picture is Ruby with Tiny Tim, she is a wonderful mother...I truly believe that she is trying her best! As Riven said, I do not think he is figured out the suck reflex on his own. I think it is hard for him to find a nipple because he can't stand.

I do have another question- you all are helping me more than you could know!
Tiny's stools are somewhat runny. Is that ok? I know that it is great that his "piping" system is working, but I am just so paranoid!

Thanks all!
Melissa

 

[Ash]

Question - I hadn't seen this mentioned in the thread, but is he able to move around at ALL? I don't mean squirm, I mean physically get from one part of the cage to another?

 

[ilovemytwochins]

Movement

No, unfortunately Ash, he does no more than squirm..
But he is full of chatter!

 

[Ash]

In that case, I'd get him into an extremely knowledgeable vet and see if there's something wrong with his legs/spine.

How old is he now? If his legs don't begin to function properly and there's nothing a vet can do, you may want to consider euthanasia for him, as hard as that will surely be. If he can't use his legs and is side bound like that permanently, he wouldn't be able to move to his food/chews/etc, and would likely face issues from bed sores and such from laying on his side so often, unless he figures out how to drag himself, and even that doesn't seem like it would be very pleasurable... =/

 

[ilovemytwochins]

We use a wonderful exotic vet (www.seavs.com) in Northern VA. I took him in yesterday and the vet examined him and said that it seemed as if his brain neurologically knew what his legs were supposed to do and that he just seemed "weak". As he is only three days old, I am praying for a change. Thank you for your post! I may take him into another exotic vet for a second opinion depending on his progress.

 

[Rickman]

One thing I've done with small kits is wash the eyes with a warm washcloth, in the direction of the slits, until they open - seems to give them more incentive to live if they can see, I imagine. It's worked for me 3 or 4 times! Congratulations and good luck with the little guy!

 

[Chinniechantel]

Oh I am so sorry to hear about Tiny Tim. He looks just like my Pipsqueak, who sadly did not make it. I tried so hard- he made it a week and a day, but was even worse off with injuries. He had that same stiff look though, and did not suck well. Try your best, but try to be honest with yourself too, there is most likely a reason mom is not feeding him. I know you have to try, but don't beat yourself up about it. What do you do with him in between feedings?

I agree with Rick- try getting those eyes open. It will help him a lot. Great job, and lots of hugs. They are special animals and so easy to love.

 

[ilovemytwochins]

Hi Chinniechantel,
Yes, it is hard NOT to bond with the little ones. My husband and I are both animal lovers (we have dogs, ferrets, chins, and a saltwater tank) and Tiny Tim gets nice and warm and cuddly during feedings. ) But I am trying to maintain reality while being optimistic. I will try that trick Rick at this next feeding after this post. The good news is I can start feeling his stomach protude out after the past few feedings!
In b/t feedings, he goes back in with mom, as she stays over him and keeps him warm, I always am hoping that he will figure out how to start nursing...a small miracle to ask for...I know!

p.s. I am sorry to hear about Pipsqueak; that must have been just enough time to get attached... :no: