4H rant...

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Riven

Bad Chin
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
3,584
Location
Central Nebraska
First of all, I fully support 4H.

Both of my girls signed up, their first year. One is doing small animals and chickens, the other dogs and photography.

They haven't had ONE meeting this year and the fair is this week. We don't have any idea on what's going on, but it seems the leader's kids are all ready to go and everything...

Why be a leader if you're not going to do it? My kids don't even want to go because they're not ready and have no idea on what to expect... We've asked when meetings are going to be and all of that and we always get a vague response that never happens. The leader is our neighbor on top of it... so yea, not like we can't make it over there or anything.

Just had to rant.
 
I think it's kind of sad when my daughter actually goes over there with her dog to see if they can have meetings but they never do... she's spent a lot of time working with him and has gotten him to do all of the things he is supposed to like heel, sit, stay, and lay down for 3 minutes...

I'm so finding new leaders next year.
 
Yeah we had some problems with a 4 H group that our adopted daughter was in. They really should be more active and organized.

On a seperate note is there anything chinchilla related in 4h groups in people's areas? I realize not much can be done during the summer when most fairs are going, but I have heard of a group in an Ohio county fair.
 
My suggestion would be to encourage the girls to take their animals and show anyway.Almost sounds like "leader" is just a mother who only wants "her brood" to suceed.Encourage the girls to go and show their hard work.No they may not place,but they may do very well.Regardless it will give them a chance to network with other groups of kids who share their interest and may find a group they are more welcome in.Plus I think your girls should be proud of the work they have accomplished especially since it has been with very little guidance.If they do place,I would avoid giving much credit to the group leader.
 
They have small animals which would include chins, but it's been 100 degrees here and the "small animal show" is held in a huge metal indoor arena... no way a chin would make it out alive. Plus, my kids I'm sure know more than the judges, I'd hate for them to embarrass the judges, LOL.

The leader isn't getting any credit from me. I thought about doing a horse group here, but I am not able to devote the time and energy needed, so I didn't. My mom used to be a 4H leader for horses.

My youngest worked very hard and we talked about how we're just going to do our best and find a new group next year. My oldest is very unsure because she doesn't know at all what to expect. We have a kid around that always does really good, we got her chickens from him actually, and maybe I can see if his mom's at work and have him give her a crash course. He's a nice kid, and has raised state winning birds for years, I'm sure he'd be glad to help. I had his mom's number, but not sure where I put it. I know where she works and I'm sure I could get a hold of her. I've never washed a chicken... I don't know anything about getting them ready or anything.
 
Washing a chicken... fun! Didn't have to wash them because of 4-H but because we have some Silkie chickens, one of our hens had a prolapsed egg...and was covered. Had to soak her and bath her to get the egg out.... She actually seemed to enjoy the bath, though!

Also had to bath another silkie when she was stepped on by a horse and broke her leg so we could get her cleaned up and see where to go from there.... They don't seem to mind it too bad, atleast ours didn't :p
 
Those are little chickens though! We have standard cochins, lol. Yea, I didn't think that one through did I? :p

Impacted eggs are always fun, I've helped the neighbor ( the 4H leader... ) with those before. They have a lot of fowl, we never have. I used to raise Columbian Bantam Cochins, but sold them, a year later my daughter wants to do chicken 4H... go figure right?

I told her she should do pigeons, my parents have Budapest Pigeons and they're all hand tame already! :D
 
I don't know anything about 4H besides the fact that we have been trying to get 4H interested in chinchillas here in colorado will little luck or many years now. I recently sold 3 animals to a young boy about 2 hours away from me and he was able to do an independent project for the chinchillas with a large board packed with photos and information. He said he won a ribbon for it? I think a breeder here also did something like this too. Like I said I don't know anything about 4H but from what everyone has told me of the shows/get togethers its always in a arena with no AC.
 
Yea, it's not ideal for chins. I had a pet store contact me looking for a white female that was breeding age for someone who was looking for one for 4H once...

Firstly they're not rabbits, you can't "breed them for 4H" like other animals, secondly, they wanted me to sell them a breeding age white female for $45 so they could turn it for a sure sale for $150... That didn't happen.

Anyway, they get ribbons and "premiums" which are basically $4 here for a purple and a blue ( not sure how exactly that works but whatever). The 4H shows are run like a chin show with multiple placings. I still don't know when we need to take our stuff or anything like that.
 
Riven, not sure when your fair is, but if your daughter has any questions about dog care and what to expect showing Pre-Novice First Year (I assume that's her class), I'd be happy to answer any questions you all might have in preparing for the show. Such a wonderful project its a shame the project leader didn't follow through. I was lucky enough that dog care was a county-led project for us.
 
I tried doing 4H when I was really, really young. I had a terrible experience. The leaders were very biased and not very open minded. It was hard to understand why I was getting shunned when I was very little. Now I know why. When one of the "younger" parents took over heading our group, she was understanding and knew what was going on. She tried apologizing to me and my family, but I had enough. I think I was 10! I told them, thanks but no thanks.
 
Well the fair is this week...

We finally got some information about when the animals need to go and stuff like that last night, we have to take chickens tomorrow, and the dog show is tomorrow. They haven't had one meeting or any "practices" for the show. I've shown dogs, like AKC, but this is different it's not confirmation it's showmanship or obedience? This is her first year so we don't have any idea what to expect. I was going to maybe look up some youtube videos and have a "practice" tonight...

I never realized what a great leader I had until all of this either...
 
Typically, a 4-H dog show will have both obedience and showmanship. Showmanship is basically like junior handler from AKC shows. Where you are judged on how well you show the dog rather than judging the dog against the breed standard. But everything from your AKC showing applies: proper gate of dog, make sure the dog is between you and the judge, have your dog stand at all time, proper tabling (if she shows a small dog) and care/grooming. Because its dog care, they may ask the handler questions like "name an external parasite, how much do you feed your dog, what breed/group is your dog, what shots do you give your dog, etc." The judge is basically looking to find out that the 4-H member is caring for the dog, not the parent.

For obedience, she would be in Pre-Novice First Year. Everything is done on a 6-foot leash. Most important thing to remember... once you step in the show ring DO NOT CORRECT YOUR DOG. If the dog doesn't sit, so be it. You can say 'Sit' again if she likes, but don't pull on the leash to correct. Also, don't praise/touch the dog until the current exercise is over. The judge will says 'Exercise Finish" and that's where you can say "good boy", smile or pet your dog.

Pre-Novice First Year consists of Heel On Leash, Figure 8 On Leash, Stand for Exam, Recall On Leash, Long Sit (1 minute) and Long Down (3 minutes).

Heel On Leash - Tonight when you practice, call out commands for her like Halt (stop), Fast (run), Slow, Left Turn, Right Turn, About Turn (U turn to your inside, not to the dog).

Figure 8 - You will start in the middle, when you are told "Foward" go to the person closest to your dog. You do a figure 8 around two people and sit when told.

Stand - When told, stand your dog up. You can lift from underneath. Make sure your dog's feet are all squared up (so he doesn't shuffle his feet), tell stay and walk to the end of the leash. The judge will then run her hand over the dogs back. If the dog moves, don't reset him. Just leave it.

Recall - Sit dog, stay and walk to end of leash. When told, call the dog and have him sit in front of you. When the judge says 'Finish', give the dog the command to return to the heel position. If the dog doesn't listen, go ahead and take a step back. Better to get a points off for a double command than to not do the skill at all.

Long Sit - Sit dog, stay and walk to the end of leash. In Pre-Novice, you should get credit for any time they sit. So even if its 15 seconds, you get some points. If the dog gets up, have your daughter slowly pull the dog to her and have the dog sit next to her as not to disturb the other dogs.

Long Down - As a group everyone will say "Down". If your dog doesn't hear you, go ahead and give the command again. The judge won't be able to hear you over everyone else. If the dog still won't go down, gently place her down and give the stay command. Same applies as the long sit.

Hope that helps and good luck!
 
The dog show was tonight, the judge, leaders ( the real ones, not the one we had, who wasn't even there although her kid was signed up... ), and other kids were AWESOME in helping her crash course study for everything. She got two blues and a purple! There were not a lot of kids and the judge wasn't really strict. Over all her and Aldous did AWESOME, I'm so proud of her. She got so many compliments from people who couldn't believe how much she achieved without a leader helping and for a first year girl who's 8 years old... Before agility she was so frustrated ( neither of them had even seen the course let alone practiced it before tonight) she started crying and all of the kids helped to make her feel better and encourage her, it was exactly how things are supposed to be. The judge helped walk her though the ones she needed help on and gave her a purple and told her after the show what a great dog she had and she hoped to see her again next year. Her dog did everything she asked, knocked down one jump pole, and was a little slower on a couple of things but did it all. Thanks to all of the people there my girls BOTH want to do dog 4H next year... and we have our new group all lined up!
 
On a seperate note is there anything chinchilla related in 4h groups in people's areas? I realize not much can be done during the summer when most fairs are going, but I have heard of a group in an Ohio county fair.

That might be the Canfield Fair in Mahoning County Ohio that you're talking about. It's a huge fair, sometimes larger than the state fair in Columbus, depending on the year. Somebody-or-other's Pocket Pets 4-H always has a few chins at the fair Labor Day weekend (yeah, in Ohio, so 80* minimum with up to 100% humidity) in a barn with no AC sleeping on frozen plastic bottles like their rabbits and guinea pigs. It's my home town and every year I go I'm ashamed to see how that group keeps their chinchillas. Chins do *not* make the best showing animals for a summer time 4-H project; the leaders should know that, and if they don't, then the kid's parents should. :(
 
That's terrible that they would be at the fair with the weather conditions, not to mention all the kids tapping and poking at the cages. I figured things would be done early in the year and documented and when fair rolled around the documented parts would be the only thing they bring to the fair.
 
Wonderful news all around Riven! I just loved the dog care project. Its great for the child involved and at the end of the summer the family has a better behaving dog.

Monday I head to the Missouri State Fair to judge a couple of obedience classes and I can't wait to see how the kids and their dogs do after practicing all summer. Always a delight!
 
Last night they had the small animal/pet section. There was a kid there with a chin, in a house/cage that looked like it was made out of cedar, in 90 degrees plus humidity. I told the check-in people, I told the judge. No one cared that it was about 20 degrees too hot for the chin. The judge even says to me, well it doesn't look like it's in distress. I, being as polite as I could, said well it's ears are bright red, flopped to the side and it's sprawled out... the next distress you'll see from it is it being dead. I tried to tell the kid who owned, he didn't care and the parents got snippy with me and said "well it's going to be taken back home soon"...

To top that off, he didn't know what color it was, he didn't know how long they lived, and he didn't know what they were bred for ( fur ), that's not even on top of the bowl full of crappy food or the fact it was "spiking out" because it needed dusted and combed so badly. But he got a PURPLE?! WTH? I'm writing the fair board about this, the kid ( and apparently the judge?) didn't know anything about it AND mostly put it in a dangerous position to be there, and he was rewarded for it all with a purple. But after I said something about the heat, they did put a frozen water bottle in there... <rolling my eyes> My daughter spent hours on her project for her chameleon and made a poster and everything, she received a purple, but apparently they don't mean anything. I tried to be nice and help and they were rude, I tried to educate the kid he already "knew it all" apparently.

I love 4H, but I can't support promoting putting animals in danger.
 
Chins hide illness and conditions well, observation is not always going to work. Example, the chin in my avatar had severe malo and a class 5 heart murmur, he was able to win a first place at the CA state show with those conditions, looking at him you would never know he was sick.
 
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