4 different vets in 3 weeks & no real answers

[Jena]

Hi I have a 2 year old male chin named Dink. I love him very much & feel so helpless, sometimes he looks so uncomfortable. So much has happened in 3 weeks.

1st Symptoms
Not playing or chewing his sticks, I figured this was due to new cage ~chin/rat cage, 3 levels, all metal, and no wire mesh).
Biting genitals, something he never did but now does ALL the time
Biting his hands, feel, back, belly & his fav now~ genitals
very lethargic at times.
Constantly wants dust baths; he would live in it if I let him. FYI~ I only give let him dust for 5-10 min especially since I have seen him eating the dust recently.
1st tip to the vet was May 25th
Vet said he looked good, gave me some Gel stuff I have never seen before & pain meds + fluids. Sent me home with high hopes but no real answers other than if it continues they have to put him to sleep & look at his teeth.
May 27th Friday I took him back because he was tugging on his genitals & biting himself a lot more, VERY litharge + looked like he was in pain
Dif vet same office said he had significant weight loss in the past 2 days, took X-rays of his stomach, because she thought he may have a stone. X-ray didn’t show anything so she sent me home w/ CC & the Xrays just in case he stopped pooping & had to go to ER. Dr said Dink still looked good. She thought this would fix him up. Saturday the vet called & said Radiology looked at X Rays, thinks he may have a mass or lymph node in his belly but to keep doing what I was doing (she was off till Monday)
New symptoms
Eating bedding & I don’t mean a little nibble; he was eating the chunks he had peed on.
Eating very little pellets, some hay & not drinking that much
Started doing the chewing thing w/ his mouth that I know was teeth probs. I lost my 16 year old chin 2 years ago Bubba (RIP) to teeth problems so I know that signs.
Sleeping at night, not playing
May 31st dif vet who took care of Bubba so I knew her & felt somewhat comfortable
There Radiology dept looked at X rays, said they didn’t see anything, Vet didn’t feel anything & again said he looked good & had gained some of the weight back that he lost. Both offices checked his teeth & said they were ok.
More new symptoms ~my poor baby!
Not drinking or eating ANYTHING BUT HIS POOP! Again not just a little
Noticed he was licking up his urine when playing in his pen. Urine was SUPER orange almost red.
June 6th (Saturday) I knew he need fluids & none of the exotic vets were in either office so I took him to the ER where they gave him fluids & scheduled dink for Monday

Monday vet said he need back molar trimmed & NOT TO GIVE CC
He was fine Tuesday-wed night. Tuesday made a turn for the worst, stopped eating & his bely was making watery noises (like if you shake a can of soup) I was told to start CC again & give him .3 ml of baby gas X.

That was yesterday. Now he is showing signs of Bloat & fighting the CC.
Please help as none of the exotic vets are in again.
Meds he is currently on.
Cisapride
Metacam
CC fed 3-4 time daily- average about 9-15 ML daily
He was on antibiotic for 1 & ½ weeks, Bytril, Im sure Im butchering the name. That ended last Tuesday.
+ baby gasx 3 ml 3 to 4 times daily…is that to much??

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

Did ANYONE do a hair ring check?? Where do you live - maybe someone here can direct you to a real chin vet Any vet that says don't to give CC when the chin is not eating is NUTS.

 

[tunes]

Baytril is well known to cause chins to stop eating, which may be a huge part of this problem. Throwing a chin on such a heavy hitting drug for absolutely no reason is ridiculous.

I would be pushing the critical care every 4 hours. When I have an ill chin, I try to get 120 mL in a day. 9-15 mL a day is about as useful as giving none at all. Don't worry about the gas drops. As long as you aren't giving him excessive amounts (which you aren't) he'll be fine with it.

I agree - give us your location and we'll see if we can point you to a chin savvy vet. I'm sorry you both are going through this, but we'll see if we can help you out.

 

[Tanya]

I have the same question. Here is a video on a hair ring check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUfmBoighpA

Urine was SUPER orange almost red.

It's common when a chin is dehydrated; the intensity of the color depends on the level of dehydration.

baby gasx 3 ml 3 to 4 times daily…is that to much

You can give a full dropper every few hours.

CC fed 3-4 time daily- average about 9-15 ML daily

You should feed about 55-65 ml per 500g of body weight daily.

A gentle abdominal massage (circular downwards motion towards the anus) can provide relief. Also, you can read this thread http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6553.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Only thing to add to what everyone else has said so far:

Has anyone done a urinalysis/sediment on him? Not all stones show up on x-rays. And not all will show crystals in the sediment - but it's something to check.

Also, if you're comfortable giving fluids SQ that may help move things along as well if he's fighting the CC.

 

[Jena]

Did ANYONE do a hair ring check?? Where do you live - maybe someone here can direct you to a real chin vet Any vet that says don't to give CC when the chin is not eating is NUTS.

yes both vets checked

I live in Germantown MD, ER vet is very close but I dont trust her 100%, she is the one who said not to give CC after the tooth trim "if he was eating ANY reg food".
I have a vet 30 min away that seems to know what she is doing BUT THEY ALL SAY THEY do right??

Yes if anyone knows of a real chin vet in my area let me know.

Thank you very much for

 

[Jena]

I have the same question. Here is a video on a hair ring check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUfmBoighpA


It's common when a chin is dehydrated; the intensity of the color depends on the level of dehydration.


You can give a full dropper every few hours.


You should feed about 55-65 ml per 500g of body weight daily.

A gentle abdominal massage (circular downwards motion towards the anus) can provide relief. Also, you can read this thread http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6553.

Dropper that came with bottle is over 1 & ½ ml, I just want to double check its safe to give that amount every hour? Sorry Im a little frazzled

Do you have any suggestions as to how many ml is to much to feed him at one sitting? He gets very jumpy after 4 or 5 ml + the other stuff he is taking.
Gently restrain him is a small towel but he is a wiggler & often wiggles out after 1 or 2 squats, its downhill after that, he gets very agitated.

Im going to try my 1st massage!, thanks so much! Im so glad I stumbled across this forum.

 

[Jena]

I have the same question. Here is a video on a hair ring check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUfmBoighpA


It's common when a chin is dehydrated; the intensity of the color depends on the level of dehydration.


You can give a full dropper every few hours.


You should feed about 55-65 ml per 500g of body weight daily.

A gentle abdominal massage (circular downwards motion towards the anus) can provide relief. Also, you can read this thread http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6553.

Baytril is well known to cause chins to stop eating, which may be a huge part of this problem. Throwing a chin on such a heavy hitting drug for absolutely no reason is ridiculous.

I would be pushing the critical care every 4 hours. When I have an ill chin, I try to get 120 mL in a day. 9-15 mL a day is about as useful as giving none at all. Don't worry about the gas drops. As long as you aren't giving him excessive amounts (which you aren't) he'll be fine with it.

I agree - give us your location and we'll see if we can point you to a chin savvy vet. I'm sorry you both are going through this, but we'll see if we can help you out.

Man I feel so bad, I am the one who has caused all this trauma to Dink, I should know better than to trust any vet after what I saw my last chin go through. I have been calling them constantly as well as taking him in at least 6 times over the past 3 weeks, none of them said anything about feeding him that much, poor guy is starving. Full amount on CC bag said 4-8 ml 3 time a day… Im so mad, they charge so much & do nothing but guess & guess wrong at that.

When you say don’t worry about the gas drops do you mean not to give them or not worry about the amount. His little belly is bloated & he lays on his side now after feeding
My location is updated now; any help finding a good vet is greatly appreciated, feel free to contact me.
I apologize for my sloppy replies, I had no clue you could do them at onec.. what can I say im new.
Thanks again!

 

[Brittany]

No advice to add, just sending healing thoughts. I went through the same thing last fall 4 vets from October-December when dealing with malo:grouphug:

 

[tunes]

Most people feel that it is very unlikely you would overdose your chin on the gas drops. When I need to use them, I will offer 4 dropperfuls a day, sometimes more depending on the symptoms. Definitely continue to use them.

The CC package says 45 mL to "maintain" weight, but anybody who has hand fed chins knows that doesn't even do that. If I offered an ill chin just 45 mL a day of CC and nothing else, they are going to keep losing. For a 500 gm chin, I did 100 mL a day, 4 sittings, 25 mL at each sitting. For a larger chin I did more, generally 120 mL a day.

Try not to beat yourself up. You didn't do anything wrong and are doing your best to care for your chin. It's pretty refreshing to see someone busting their hump trying rather than whining that they can't afford a vet or don't want to go see a vet or can't find a vet, etc.

 

[Brittany]

Can you use the baytril syringe to measure out the gas drops? I find it's easier to make sure the chin gets the full amount, its .6 ml every 4 hours.

I try to feed 20-25 ml per feeding for a total of 90+ ml per day. I feed less (10ml) if I'm dealing with stomach issues.

Dropper that came with bottle is over 1 & ½ ml, I just want to double check its safe to give that amount every hour? Sorry Im a little frazzled

Someone help me out, isn't Angie in Maryland? Not sure where she is?

 

[Hammie]

Poor Dink! I have no advice but I do have him in my thoughts!!

 

[Tanya]

I agree with tunes. I'd try to hand feed every 4 hours or so. When you mix Critical Care with water, it's best to use filtered water that is slightly warmer than room temperature (increases palatability); tap water has a variety of contaminants, and it's chlorinated. Chlorine can interfere with the absorption of some nutrients.

I think you should try to feed at least 55-60 ml a day. Your chin is likely to eat more when he gets used to being hand fed. I do not think you can overdose on gas drops if reasonable amounts are given.

You can try leaving a bowl with Critical Care in his cage to see if he'll eat on his own (some ideas on hand feeding are listed here: http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?p=262799#post262799). If Dink refuses to eat, he should be wrapped in a towel quite snugly (burrito style), so that only the head is out (small kitchen towel works well) and syringe the feed into the side of the mouth (aiming at the cheek). Only squeeze a small amount at a time and not too quickly. Some chins do not like Critical Care much. I can send you a free sample of Organic EFL hand feeding formula; maybe your chin will like it better.

When you mix hand feeding formula with water, you can also add probiotics.

Vets in MD: http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388

 

[tunes]

I'm all for Tanya's Essentials For Life. I've had some tough sells here for the CC, but they went nuts over Tanya's mix. You'll notice the difference immediately when you open the bag.

Unfortunately, Angie is in PA, not MD, but she may be close enough that it's feasible to get to her. (I am geographically impaired, so don't count on that.)

 

[BCChins]

What kind of cage is he in?

 

[Jena]

Dink was so squirmy during his AM feeding; I was only able to get 10 ml in to him before we both got agitated, Im going to let him sleep for a couple hours then try again. Im scared to hold him too tight because his tummy is still making a *shaking soup in a can noise* ~very technical I know
Today he is still sleeping on his side after meals, its been 4 days now
Last night~~~
He was very lethargic late late night early AM, sitting in corner 1 paw up looking sad & uncomfortable. Ate few pellets, no water that I saw. He was pulling little terds out of his butt & eating them. Maybe that’s what he was going for all along & he wasn’t tugging at his genitals after all…
Should I be worried that his funny shaking soup in a can belly noise has not improved after 24 hours of baby GasX ?? I
Good news is
~ Lots of small poo in his cage when I woke up, so something has to be working.
~he seemed to be excited about hay for the 1st time is a long time

Thanks guys!

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Dr. Tidd is in Germantown and she knows what she's doing. She did an emergency c-section for us - the only one where mom and all babies actually survived. And she amputated a 3-4 week old kits leg for us. The only thing is her availability is terrible! But I think she has a soft spot for chins and will try to fit you in.

Has anyone done a urinalysis/sediment on him?

 

[Tanya]

I'm glad to hear he is doing better )

 

[Jena]

Dr. Tidd is in Germantown and she knows what she's doing. She did an emergency c-section for us - the only one where mom and all babies actually survived. And she amputated a 3-4 week old kits leg for us. The only thing is her availability is terrible! But I think she has a soft spot for chins and will try to fit you in.

Has anyone done a urinalysis/sediment on him?

No but Ill mention that when I call the vet Monday. Next they want to a sonogram..

I have had very bad luck with Dr Tidd, she saw my 1st chin Bubba who I had for 16 had & brought in with many symptoms of Malocclusion. She did her exam & said he had to back teeth, he was just getting old.. I knew that couldn’t be right, I went home that night did my research, brought a Malocclusion info printout with all the symptoms & she still said the same thing “no back teeth, They were all worn down in the back to nothing” . I found another vet & I was right

Thanks for trying & keep the Vet names coming!

 

[Jena]

I agree with tunes. I'd try to hand feed every 4 hours or so. When you mix Critical Care with water, it's best to use filtered water that is slightly warmer than room temperature (increases palatability); tap water has a variety of contaminants, and it's chlorinated. Chlorine can interfere with the absorption of some nutrients.

I think you should try to feed at least 55-60 ml a day. Your chin is likely to eat more when he gets used to being hand fed. I do not think you can overdose on gas drops if reasonable amounts are given.

You can try leaving a bowl with Critical Care in his cage to see if he'll eat on his own (some ideas on hand feeding are listed here: http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?p=262799#post262799). If Dink refuses to eat, he should be wrapped in a towel quite snugly (burrito style), so that only the head is out (small kitchen towel works well) and syringe the feed into the side of the mouth (aiming at the cheek). Only squeeze a small amount at a time and not too quickly. Some chins do not like Critical Care much. I can send you a free sample of Organic EFL hand feeding formula; maybe your chin will like it better.

When you mix hand feeding formula with water, you can also add probiotics.

Vets in MD: http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388

Yes that’s exactly how I mix the CC, warm filtered water & all.
Dink gets out of my burrito towels, he kicks his back feet (that are HUGE btw) & squeezes his head out of the hole then hopes all over the table till I can get him back in the wrap. I only get a pump or 2 in before he gets out of it. He was not doing this the 1st week of CC, same towel, same table same everything.. Once or twice last week I was able to ditch the hand towel to wrap him up, he just sat on my lap & let me do my thing.
I totally forgot about feeding into the side of his mouth! Good call!! Im going to try that at noon, since I haven’t been able to get more then 8-10 Ml in him per feed I have to do every 2-3 hours. Hopefully he will tolerate feeding from the side of his mouth a little better. Today’s feedings have not gone well...And that’s why I put a bowl of CC w some smashed pellets & shredded hay in his cage. I laughed when I saw you suggested that because I had just done exactly that.
I would LOVE a free sample of your feeding formula!
~~~probiotics~~~ tell me more pls



Thanks for all the GREAT tips!!!