The Infamous "tail" Debate

[Whimsy]

More often than not, folks unfamilar with chin handling are shocked the first time they see chins held by the tail. It seems particularly disturbing to newbys when they see their first grooming. I often tell people that chin tails make wonderful handles. I recognize that may sound trite, so I ask you:

Fellow forum friends, how do you go about explaining that tail holding is not harmful to chins?

Is there scientific evidence that proves this method will not cause damage to their psyche or to their fragile bodies?

Does anyone have hard core argument against tail holding? If so, why?

:hmm:

 

[shubbles]

If by tail holding you mean holding onto the tail as the chins sits on your hand then yes thats totally fine. If you mean holding the chin upside down from the base of the tail then i don't know. It seems that it calms mine down, but i don't do it anymore, i only did it once or twice. I have know medical data to back that up, but it seems like it didn't hurt him.

 

[Ash]

If holding a chin upside by the tail hurt chins, you'd have thousands of injurred chins every years at the shows. I guess that's enough proof for me that it's fine. I usually do support them with my other arm or something, though.

I usually explain to people that gripping the base of the tail is safer because their ribs are so gentle, even a small squeeze can cause them to break and/or puncture a lung or is safer than the chin taking a flying leap to the ground and hurting itself/getting stepped on/etc. That usually gets it through their head.

 

[Essentia]

Breeders/ranchers have been holding chins by the base of their tail to groom them for YEARS. The chins don't cry out in pain or anything like that, nor do they act like their was any pain involved after the holding. I honesty don't believe any damage is done.

 

[Ash]

Breeders/ranchers have been holding chins by the base of their tail to groom them for YEARS. The chins don't cry out in pain or anything like that, nor do they act like their was any pain involved after the holding. I honesty don't believe any damage is done.

You'd think some of them were being murdered though with the way they scream! But that's just chins being whiney, it doesn't hurt them. I have a girl that screams when she's held, but you can also see where she had a break in her tail from being held improperly (It's about an inch down from the tip).

 

[starleomach]

I don't know how much of a debate their is. I mean it seems only newbies have issue with it when done properly...when I started out I was shocked to see it.

 

[AZChins]

I don't see a problem with holding a chin by the tail either. Of course, you are gentle with it and don't swing the chin by the tail or anything. Some people get very freaked out when I catch a chin by the tail. It's usually the safest way to get a hold of a chin in a hurry. I'm not doing it because I am mean...I am doing it because it's the only handle you've got when it comes to chinchillas. I want to be able to handle the chin without it getting away and getting lost. Sure, it's great to just scoop them up and carry them around, but that isn't always possible.

 

[kendra]

I don't know of medical reasoning but plenty of anecdotal evidence from ranchers and people who have had chins for a long time of it not hurting them. The most convincing argument really seems to be the ribs thing that Ash said.
I've only held by the tail once but that's mainly because I've never needed to, and the one time it did seem to calm him down. I think that may be what shubbles means by the holding upside down thing, maybe just not having experience so not sure based on that- if that makes any sense, not that it's bad or whatnot.

And it would be interesting to hear if there is any medical info about it, just out of curiosity. It would make sense since their hind legs are fairly strong and the back end is pretty solid, versus the front which appears more delicate

 

[chinsNdobermans]

At first both hubby and I were a little put off by the base-of-the-tail hold, when we started getting serious about chins.

Then, I started trying it with my more difficult chins, and after that, I began doing it for show grooming. Now, I couldn't imagine not doing it! I try to get youngsters used to the feeling of a grip on the base of their tail so *maybe* they won't squeal so much but some of them are such howlers! lol

 

[3CsMommy]

Mine has never screamed etc. when I took him by the tail, but he's not happy about being handled or carried at all. Anything he can find purchase on to try to jump away, he'll grab, so even with a hand under his feet while I've got his tail he's still fighting and kicking (scratching me up in the process) and has nipped me pretty hard. The only way he doesn't struggle so much I'm afraid of hurting him or losing him entirely is when I take his tail and hold him upside down. So, another positive of it, cruel as it looks, is handler safety.

 

[ChinchillasByDesign]

You mean to tell me that the tail doesnt fall off when you hold them by it? lol totally kidding

 

[tunes]

You mean to tell me that the tail doesnt fall off when you hold them by it?

Of course they fall off - duh - my entire barn of chins are without tails, but I did that on purpose. I'm marketing them as a new type of chinchilla so I can make some major buckage.

I am not a fan of people who carry chins by the tail as though they are luggage. I don't care how secure it makes their hold, it just irritates me. But to grab then, pick them up, groom them, etc. it's actually a very secure way to hold onto them. I always tell new chin folk to hold their chins by the tail, very close to the butt, but to also support them underneath their bellies with their other hand. When they ask why, I tell them chin bones break incredibly easy, and the first time they have to worry about a chin with a broken leg or pay for it's pricey surgery because they didn't have a secure hold, they'll understand why holding them by the tail is a much safer alternative.

 

[AZChins]

Tail handle...that's what it is...it doesn't mean that you put load on it. I think I instinctively have my hand on the tail as I hold chins when I am walking them anywhere. Just so they don't end up getting hurt at all.

 

[star83_4mc]

monkey gets very upset when i secure my hold with her tail. she's more mellow if i just let her sit on me. when i get a grasp on the base of her tail she starts to panic.
but i don't think it's pain she's worried about.
i say it doesn't hurt them either

 

[ABBY W.]

I always prep people when I have them in, so they don't freak out, or think I am totally horrible. I talk to them about fur slipping and the floating ribs, and then I show them the tail hold, and explain that it's the safest way to catch a chin. But after I catch them I usually let them sit on my arm, or against my chest. Most people end up thinking it's kind of funny after that.

 

[fanofdmb84]

From a physiological standpoint, the amount of pressure put on a tail from the chins weight is very small. All mammal vertibrae are designed to flex and stretch to some degree, and they are most stable linearly (such as when a chin is hanging upside down). It would be different if there were a lot of mass at the end of the tail (imagine holding a large dog that way--there's no way!).

I've only tried it once, and it did seem to calm him down, almost like scruffing a cat does.

 

[CerLynn]

When they ask why, I tell them chin bones break incredibly easy, and the first time they have to worry about a chin with a broken leg or pay for it's pricey surgery because they didn't have a secure hold, they'll understand why holding them by the tail is a much safer alternative.

You nailed it right there, Peggy. Unfortunately, that was the exact reason Kokomo broke his leg last winter. I wish we had known better at the time, but we've certainly learned our lesson, and it's the only way I feel comfortable carrying either of our boys now. You can only trust them to a certain degree, and if you don't have a firm grip on the tail when they suddenly become excited or spooked, you're going to end up with a chin taking a hard landing on the floor.

 

[Cuddlebug]

When I first got into chins, the breeder I got my first pair from grabbed one of them by the tail She must have done it wrong, because the chin screamed bloody murder. Once I learned how to do it properly, I picked up the same chin by her tail and she just went totally mellow on me. No screaming, nothing. I started using the tail after reading about it on this very forum. Now, I have a girl who I will not hold without using her tail. Wilma is a skydiver and I would hate to see her get hurt. It also comes in handy with panicky chins and biters.

 

[Spoof]

She must have done it wrong, because the chin screamed bloody murder.

Breeder did it fine. Some chins scream. Out of a show string of 40 we had 5 this year, four stopped after a few minutes but one screamed the entire time I groomed him, roughly 15 minutes. It got me some ribbing from the other large breeders, it is pretty rare to have one that dedicated.

I think a better debate would be the ears. How do you feel about holding and handling by the ears?

 

[Rebecca]

I pretty much always have a grip on the tail, usually carrying them upright (perpendicular to my chest, head resting near the shoulder) or lying down on my forearm. They've never expressed any distress, and it reassures me that I can prevent them from hurting themselves. I only hold upside down when getting one of my boys out of the cage, because he will try and bite if he's still inside.