Self Vetting

[RDZCRanch]

Figured this might make an interesting debate topic as I've seen it come up numerous times. By self vetting, I mean to decide on medication for the animals without them being seen by a vet or treating wounds, broken limbs and other things that could require a veterinarian's expertise without consulting a vet or having the animal seen by a vet.

When is it ok to self vet? Is it ok for certain people to self vet over others (e.g. breeders, veterinary technicians, etc.)? Why? Would you self vet?

ETA: This popped into my head because the vet I work for got bit by a German Shepherd this week and instead of going to a hospital, he had his veterinarian friend come over and sew him up. Now he's self medicating and other things because he says doctors are too expensive. Apparently, this is common practice among many veterinarians he knows as they are all giving him advice on what to use on himself.:hair: I lectured him, but he doesn't listen to me over other veterinarians.

 

[ErinsChins]

Personally, I don't feel comfortable self vetting. I do, however, believe that there are 4 or 5 members on this forum that have the knowledge to do so. I guess for me, I just feel safer not doing so.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Being on my way to being a vet, I should say "Never self-vet, always get your animals seen!"

But...I'm not official yet, so I'll say what I think on the matter.

I think there are many levels to treating chins, these technically include 'medications':
1. Small, minor things that *most* people can deal with themselves. A little bout of ringworm, a small cut, an early raw foot pad, something like that. Or things that are husbandry related (I personally believe a large percentage of exotics cases are attributed to husbandry). These I would treat myself at home, because I'm comfortable with it and don't need a prescription.

2. Small, minor things that require a prescription, like conjunctivitis. Unfortunately this does require a prescription. For me, I usually will figure out what is wrong myself and just go to a vet, not necessarily someone who knows a heck of a lot about chins, to get a confirmation and the meds.

3. And larger, more serious things that will require diagnostics and/or prescription meds. This is when you need that chinchilla-experienced vet.

I avoid most vets in my area like the plague. I have found very few to be worth my time when it comes to chinchillas. I'm thankful to work at a vet hospital myself, though my boss does not do exotics. If I have a chinchilla with a problem that will need x-rays, I will take the chin to my boss's place and do it myself - this saves me A LOT of money (Plus most vets want to gas a chin to take x-rays, which I don't believe is necessary 90% of the time). Then, depending on if it's something minor and easily treated or something that is going to need more diagnostics I will choose between 2-3 vets in the area with varying experience levels, schedules, price and proximity to me.

I've got it all mapped out honestly. I even have a list with emergency vets in the area IN ORDER of who I trust the most, and who has the best availability. That way when an emergency happens I just start at #1 and call down the list.

BUT I am a very honest, rule-following person and would never ask my boss (who doesn't treat exotics) to write me a prescription based on MY diagnosis of a chin. I'm sure he would - as he self-vets just as your boss does. I do occasionally bring a prescription back to him to fill if it is particularly marked up at the other hospital, but that is as far as I will go. Any more than that and I don't feel right.

Also, I usually don't have a problem using stuff previously used on animal A on the now sick animal B, because we usually have long bouts between illnesses and the meds expire. If I did have something, say antibiotics, laying around I would still get the diagnosis confirmed by a vet and just let them know I already have stuff if that's what they want to prescribe.

ETA: I do banter with my vets, asking a lot of questions, "Why this, not this" etc. Some get perturbed by it, those are the ones that move down on my list. I have started a little of a reputation with some, and they will take my thoughts into consideration, realizing i'm not a total moron. Those are the ones that move up on my list

 

[Jazicat]

I am a firm believer that if there is something wrong with my chinchillas that we got to the vet. I did a well vet check up for my first chinchilla because I was from the world of birds and that is a must. However I do trust my breeder and a few others so I value their advice as well because they have had many years of experience with lots of chinchillas. Sometimes vets are wrong so I like to get a few opinions.

I will also say that I think going to a message board when you feel your chinchilla needs a vet is wrong. Use the board to verifiy but if you think your chinchillas life is in danger go to the vet first.

 

[Spoof]

like conjunctivitis. Unfortunately this does require a prescription.

You can use Terramycin, it comes over the counter in all states. Not to knock going to the vet, but it is treatable without doing so.

Now my opinion on the topic; I do self vet the chins.

I was lucky enough grow up having livestock, we treated a lot by ourselves as well as had the vet out. I also lived near WSU Vet school the first six years I had chins. I went there for everything, what I learned through the teaching hospital was invaluable. Even more so the diagnostics laboratory post mortem. Good thing too, it prepared me for the South. In the South, the vets do dogs, cats and race horses. The closest one that has seen a chinchilla is in New Orleans.

Every once in awhile I run into something I haven't seen and will take one in and ask around, but it's rare.

I also put animals down. No point in going to a vet, just put them on ice and send them to the diagnostics lab if I don't know what the cause is.

That said, I very rarely have herd issues. Had my first URI and eye infection in four years this spring. Have only had one broken leg - that was a baby back in 2004. Ringworm pops up on occasion and a weird skin flaky thing that nobody has been able to positively ID. That popped up in a chin last year, went to six vets, nada. Sent of cultures - nothing. It cleared up and hasn't been back.

An interesting note though - I see a lot more health issues from pet people than I do from breeders.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

You can use Terramycin, it comes over the counter in all states. Not to knock going to the vet, but it is treatable without doing so.

True, I've never used terramycin for eye problems, always neo/poly or some sort of drops.

 

[3CsMommy]

I'm comfortable doing "first aid" on a variety of animals, having done a Red Cross course in animal first aid (only dogs and cats) and a number of years of animal rescue. Broken bones? We're going to a vet, but nips/scrapes/cuts I'm okay cleaning myself, and I have a local source for BluKote and some Critical Care on hand as part of my Oh $#!^ Chin Kit. I should probably get some simethicone to keep on hand too, just in case.

That said, I'm paranoid about watching for signs of URI, Malo, etc., because it will take me a little time to get to the nearest chin savvy vet I trust (Cleveland, about 2 hrs. by car). I wouldn't want to put my local dog and cats only vet on the spot by asking for films or IVs when she may or may not be comfortable with "farm animals". Of course, I also have a local breeder in my cell phone should I start to see signs of more common issues like bloat, and if I suspected it, I'd probably start him on gas drops on the trip to the vet, since that's another OTC med commonly used on chins. If it needs a prescription, though, I'd rather talk to a medical professional before just making that decision.

As for what the vet's doing, I've seen veterinarians jump into emergency situations with humans (bad pile up @ a horse cart race) and do the same thing. When you get down to it, most of the meds we use on humans were tested on dogs at one point in their development. "You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals" as one horrible song goes. Vets see and treat a lot of dog bites on other dogs; as long as he's not spurting blood, I don't see the harm in treating it himself initially. If it gets infected or doesn't heal, though, I hope he'll go to a doc in a box at least.

 

[Laurie]

I just have to ask doctor's are too expensive? Do doctor's not have insurance? As a vet he is a doctor so does he not carry insurance for himself? I find this shocking. If think breeders often know more than pet owners, so for certain things they know what to do without taking the animal in--BUT where would they get the drugs? Bloat in chinchillas requires drugs, a URI requires drugs, fungus might require drugs but a lot of people treat with tinactin in the dust, dry feet that some might take an animal to the vet for can be treated with bag balm. I haven't been lucky enough to treat an animal myself, the chinchilla injuries I've had here were a URI which required baytril and a prescription, and crushing a chinchilla in the recliner which required having the animal humanely put to sleep. I have never had fungus but feel I would treat myself, I have never had bloat, or eye infections either but would seek guidance here on the forum first before going to a vet. I trust many valued forum members yourself included Tab, to give me advice on treatment and what drugs are necessary before going to the vet.

 

[ticklechin]

I don't quote "self vet" I try to diagnose my chins prior to the visit, give my opinion on what it could be based on all the symptoms, I observe the chin very close and give all the info on the symptoms, the food and water intake, the poo quality, the weight loss or gain, the behaviors, I can and I will pipe in on what meds I want if I feel the vet is lacking in what is needed. I am frequenty right and the vets respect my opinion.

 

[Riven]

I self treat, I've had years of work with vets and at the sake of sounding conceited, I feel I know more about chins than most of vets in the state. I have several vets that do see my chins when needed, these things include xrays, c-sections, major surgery type issues, poss. teeth issues, etc.

If I call my vet and tell them I need to come in with a c-section, they don't question me, they get things ready and I walk in to surgery with them ready to sedate and operate. They know if I'm bringing her in I've already tried waiting, helping, stretching, turning, etc. The most important part of self treating that I can't emphasize enough is not knowing what is going on and the possible issues, but that you take the FULL BLAME for anything that goes wrong. If something goes wrong, you may always question your judgment, your treatment, and if you should have taken them in instead.

Yes, I think that self treating ( I don't use the term self vetting because the person is not a vet, but they are treating ) abilities vary between people, there are people who should not, and people who are able to, not only for the chins' sake, but for the person's sake as well. I think that some people rush chins to the vet for things that could easily be treated and diagnosed at home only creating stress on the chin if they're not used to being moved around. Sometime people also rush them their for any cough of sneeze only to have the vet tell them it's nothing ( whether it is or isn't may be another thing) causing stress on the animal opening it up to additional or real infections by reducing it's immune system from the stress and exposing it to other sick animal and outside germs. I think there are times that chins need to be seen.

I have been criticized in the past for performing my own necropsies, but I know lots and lots of people who don't have any kind of necropsy done at all. If I see something I question, I take the carcass to my vet, or call if it's something I can easily explain. As a breeder with many animals I need to know why an animal passes, because if it's something that can spread I can try to stop it before it hits the other chins hard. I have also sent chins to K State for necropsy work. Ranchers will also tell you that examining a chin carcass will tell you a lot about your feed program by types and locations of fat, liver color and such.

 

[Siany]

Personally, i would rather go to the vets and i wouldnt care about cost as long as they got better even if the problem was something simple (better safe than sorry)

I do think its different for breeders who have the experience and knoledge to handle certain situations and have seen it before.

 

[Ash]

I think there are some things that everyone "self vets" on, such a potential fungal infection or dry feet. However, there is also a point where you draw the line and have to realize when it's time to call up the vet, such as when treatment isn't going the way it's supposed to (fungus getting worse, dry feet turn into bumblefoot, etc). Also, there are some things that shouldn't be done at home. Treatment of broken bones, deep wounds, etc. There are some cases where I think breeders are more capable of dealing with an issue than a normal pet owner due to having more exposure to them, but the majority of issues should be seen at the vet's office.

 

[GorillaJTA]

I have access to probably all of the medications that vets would prescribe, but I would hesitate to do anything beyond superficial treatments without a vet. I do feel like I could necropsies, however, I hope that never becomes a necessity.

I have a friend who is the son of a vet and did not know how to get a prescription filled at a pharmacy (he is 25) because his father always treated him with animal medications.

 

[3CsMommy]

I just have to ask doctor's are too expensive? Do doctor's not have insurance? As a vet he is a doctor so does he not carry insurance for himself? I find this shocking.

If he's self-employed, he may not, or he might have a plan that makes emergency visits ridiculously high b/c he had to sacrifice that to get decent drug or dental/eye coverage. The sad fact is, vets often charge closer to the actual cost of the service/item than an insurance-based medical system bills people. A vet deals with fewer middle men wanting their 10%.

 

[Riven]

Depends on the vet...

 

[starleomach]

I self vet to some extent. I will treat things that are simple and I am sure about. But I have a good relationship with my vets and If I have any doubts I go in or if it something I cannot handle. But the average person ahould not self vet

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

I self vet with most things. I will usually call Steve and tell him to bring such and such home from the office-he will ask why and I tell him what I am seeing, what I think it is, he'll agree and may add on something additional. Very rarely am I wrong. I have brought animals in for c-section or teeth xrays.

There are not many vets I trust. I trust hubby but that is because he has tons of exposure to my animals and he is learning off from me. He has gone on VIN and asked questions if he is stumped..but I tell ya there is one vet at his office that is dumber than a box of rocks. Last summer he called me and said his chins he got off from craigslist had 3 babies that were running outside of the cage(he wanted babies so he paired up a couple of them). He asked what he should do and I told him EVERYTHING. They all died anyhow. I got a call 3 weeks ago from the idiot......4 babies. So now we are up to 7 babies this year, asked what he should do. I told him I already told him everything and he was on his own. Told him to start handfeeding goats milk around the clock. Obviously if mom couldn't handle 3 she certainly wasn't going to handle 4. Anyhow-long story short, they all died. This was a vet who had the nerve to call me up a second time and ask for help. I should of charged him. What it boils down to is I think he wanted me to take the kits and foster them....and I'm sorry but there was no way in **** I was going to do that. All of my moms who are nursing have 2-3 kits on them as it is. I'm not putting any stress on my animals or myself. Sorry this ran into a rant.

 

[Essentia]

I self vet to some extent. I will treat things that are simple and I am sure about. But I have a good relationship with my vets and If I have any doubts I go in or if it something I cannot handle. But the average person ahould not self vet

Agreed. I self vet on things I have dealt with previously and am comfortable treating. My vet and I have a very good relationship and he is always just a phone call away. If I'm not sure of what is going on, or feel it is something out of my hands I always go see my vet.

 

[mercynursie]

I am an old school RN, I tend to self treat myself instead of going to an MD,but I'm more likely to take/bring in a vet for my critters!I've been using superglue on cuts for years on myself(long before "wound glue" became the in thing).I got head butted by my mini donkey during a farrier trim and busted my lip and chipped a few teeth(nothing major) so I spit it out helped finished holding the donkey paid the farrier and said "Now I guess I can go over and take the Dremel and smooth my teeth".I heard his trainee ask "she isn't serious about that Dremel thing is she? Marcus just laughed and said "she sure is. You don't want to mess with her.I've seen her hold for me with one hand on the muzzle and the other on the ear twitching them and still pin them to the wall with a knee in the brisket if they act up!"LOL my farrier is afraid of me :laughitup:

 

[Megan]

I like my vet, she is good however she is a dog/cat vet that is willing to treat my chinchillas.

I, for the most part self treat. Unless it's something very serious (Broken leg, emergency c-section where I cannot move and turn the kits etc) I don't go to the vet. I have medications on hand for illness, I've had enough fights break out that a chin nearly scalped and full of blood doesn't send me in a panic anymore. I clean them up, treat the wounds and give them some meds. I do most things here at home, and knocking on wood couldn't tell you the last time we went to the vet.

Even on the farm most things I'll treat myself. Chicken is hurt? I blue kote them, give them an injection of pen. and send them on their way. We had two roosters get into a horrible fight a few weeks ago. They are free range, so we normally don't have a problem with them fighting. There was a bad snow storm and they were locked into the barn for a few days, and in that time they got into a scrap. Walked into the barn we had blood everywhere. The walls, in the horse stalls, waterers, the feeders. I never would have thought 2 chickens would bleed that much. I caught them, we cleaned out the wounds, put blue kote on them and they went on their way. If I called the vet every
time one of the horses would get themselves hurt somehow, I'd be broke. I've treated the chickens for bumble foot (side effect of letting them free range and digging in rocky soil, very common in chickens)