premature baby not eating much, need advice!

[lizluck88]

hi, i am in desperate need of help and/or advice!
my chinchilla had two babies early (not sure exactly what time) on friday morning (7/13/12). one was fully term and a good weight, a little over 50 grams. the other is premature, with eyes still closed, and you can tell his (i think it's a "he") fur on his back and tail is a lot shorter than the fur on his head and neck. he weighed about 32 grams on his birth day. today he is not much over 20 grams
he moves around very well for not being able to see, and he puts up a great fight when i try to feed him, and i feel like that is an indication of him having a pretty strong will to live. he isn't giving up yet, the little fighter! he tries to nurse on mom but she hops away from him a lot, and since his eyes are not open it takes him a while to find her again. i believe he tries to get under her to get warm and never gets around to nursing. i tried to put them in a small travel case (just mom and the runt) so maybe she would let him nurse, but she just kept digging up the bedding in the corners, and whenever the kit got close she would jump around, and i was afraid she would hurt him, so i took them out and didn't try again.

i have been trying to hand feed him with a recipe i got from the internet of goats milk, water, and baby rice cereal. the most he ate was this morning and it was about 0.2ml-0.3ml. i have searched online and can't find anything at all on how much they should be eating at a sitting, but i have read that their tummies should be full and round, and his isn't even close. also, when i try to rub his tummy with a warm, damp cloth to make him use the bathroom, he just gets mad and yells at me, nothing else happens. i did notice that mom has been licking and cleaning him, though, so i'm assuming that's why i can't get him to go to the bathroom for me. please let me know if this is not correct!
i posted an ad on craigslist looking for a foster mom in my area last night, but no success yet.

attached is a picture of the baby on the day he was born. if anyone knows how premature he looks, let me know. i'm curious.

please reply with ANY tips, pointers, advice, etc. i will be checking back often and trying to gather more info on the internet.

thank you!

 

[tunes]

32 gm is plenty big enough to have his eyes opened, even if he is a premie or comes from litter that was conceived at two different times. Get a Q-tip or a washcloth, dip it in warm (not hot) water and gently rest it against his eyes and then gently rub them. Once you get them moistened, GENTLY start trying to pry the lids apart. If you don't get them open, infection can set in and you will lose him to that. Mom has not rejected him if she's cleaning him and caring for him, so he stands a fighting chance, but you've got to get his eyes open.

2-3 mL is okay at this point (it would be better if it was more), depending on how often you are feeding him. He should be getting fed every two hours around the clock. Once you get his eyes open though, you my find him nursing better from mom. Then I would go to every three hours. You may need to mess around with the formula a bit as well. Add more cereal so that even though he is eating just a little, he's getting more calories in each bite. Maybe make it a bit warmer than room temperature. Some kits like their formula warmer.

I'm not going to lie to you. Losing 12 gm in three days is not a good sign. The odds are high that he will not make it. I, however, don't give up on a kit, ever, until they give up on me. As long as he is fighting and eating, then you should keep fighting for him. Get those eyes open and get him on an every two hour schedule of feeding, maybe even every hour at this point since he's fading so fast.

 

[Riven]

I too would open his eyes. I'd be most concerned about the weight loss, is the other kit gaining?

 

[lizluck88]

ok i will do see if i can get his eyes open asap.
he is eating .2-.3 ml (point two- point three) not 2-3... and this is every 2-2 1/2 hours since late friday/early saturday.

the other kit is gaining fine. i think that one might be a girl. she gained over a gram yesterday (never lost weight at first like i expected/read she would). her fur is all normal length, eyes open, tail curled up, etc.

will update after i try to open up his eyes and feed him again.
thank you, guys!

 

[lizluck88]

i got his little eyes open i'm pretty sure all the way, although he still seems to be holding them closed. maybe he has to adjust to the light?

one eye had a little tiny dot of pus looking stuff inside it that i wiped out. is this normal crud from the womb or the onset of an infection?

i have a tube of left over medicine from when one of my chins had an eye infection, would this be ok to put on the kits eye/s, since he is so young?

he ate about another 0.3ml after my husband and i worked on his eyes. he is currently being all dried off and we will weigh him again shortly.

as for the other kit, is it ok that she is gaining more than a gram (closer to two) at every weighing? is she eating TOO MUCH, causing the other kit to eat too little? should i remove her from the cage at times to see if the smaller kit can nurse easier that way?

 

[lizluck88]

another update, although i can always use more advice!

we checked the genders again, and i think that both babies are actually girls.

at the last feeding time, instead of feeding the small kit the formula, i just held mom still against my chest (gently but firmly, around the middle with one hand, and around her bottom end with the other, restraining feet and legs so the kit wouldn't go flying) while my husband helped the kit find a good spot to nurse. mom squirmed whenever the kit latched on, but otherwise sat still like a good sport.
at the first nipple, the kit didn't latch on so much. at the next nipple we could hear her sucking away, although she only did it for a few seconds. after we were sure she did actually know what to do to eat, we placed mom and kit back in the cage together, and put the other kit in a travel case with a heating pad underneath part of the case, and a stuffed animal to snuggle, and sat her next to the cage so mom could still see and smell her.
we checked on progress every few minutes, and the runt did seem to be in a nursing position, slightly underneath mom. they were like this for about 30-45 minutes before i put the other kit back in the cage.
should i stick only to this method and not formula feed at all, or should i continue to supplement the runt until her weight is back up? should i keep the runt in to nurse solo for longer than 30-45 minutes, or shorter?
i was wondering, also, if anyone had experience with other female chins "babysitting" each others kits? i was considering putting the bigger kit in with my other female while the smaller kit has mom to herself, so she doesn't get lonely or scared or cold. has anyone had success doing this?

the runt's eyes are open and look ok, no more pus or anything that i can see as of right now, but i would still like to know if anyone could tell me whether or not i could use eye medicine left over from an adult chin that had conjunctivitis, i will call my vet tomorrow to ask about the eyes, but if anyone has had experience in this particular situation and knows what to do, please let me know!

also regarding the runt, i noticed when i was hand feeding her that her tiny teeth look more white than orange. i know you can give adult chins tums for calcium, but can i give any to a kit so young?

 

[Kansas City Chinchillas]

Kit's teeth are normally more white in color. Don't worry about it.

I wouldn't be concerned about the kit's eyes at this point unless there is more discharge. It isn't unusual to find a bit of mucus under the eye lids of kits who haven't opened their eyes. I would not use the eye medicine you have. Not something I would contact a vet about right now. Getting the kit to gain weight is your biggest priority.

Has she gained weight? Here is a thread that has info on rotating kits.
http://chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21 You supplement kits when they are removed from mom.

If the other female is receptive to the kits she can be used to provide warmth and companionship while you are rotating them.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

another update, although i can always use more advice!

we checked the genders again, and i think that both babies are actually girls.

at the last feeding time, instead of feeding the small kit the formula, i just held mom still against my chest (gently but firmly, around the middle with one hand, and around her bottom end with the other, restraining feet and legs so the kit wouldn't go flying) while my husband helped the kit find a good spot to nurse. mom squirmed whenever the kit latched on, but otherwise sat still like a good sport.
at the first nipple, the kit didn't latch on so much. at the next nipple we could hear her sucking away, although she only did it for a few seconds. after we were sure she did actually know what to do to eat, we placed mom and kit back in the cage together, and put the other kit in a travel case with a heating pad underneath part of the case, and a stuffed animal to snuggle, and sat her next to the cage so mom could still see and smell her.
we checked on progress every few minutes, and the runt did seem to be in a nursing position, slightly underneath mom. they were like this for about 30-45 minutes before i put the other kit back in the cage.
should i stick only to this method and not formula feed at all, or should i continue to supplement the runt until her weight is back up? should i keep the runt in to nurse solo for longer than 30-45 minutes, or shorter?
i was wondering, also, if anyone had experience with other female chins "babysitting" each others kits? i was considering putting the bigger kit in with my other female while the smaller kit has mom to herself, so she doesn't get lonely or scared or cold. has anyone had success doing this?

the runt's eyes are open and look ok, no more pus or anything that i can see as of right now, but i would still like to know if anyone could tell me whether or not i could use eye medicine left over from an adult chin that had conjunctivitis, i will call my vet tomorrow to ask about the eyes, but if anyone has had experience in this particular situation and knows what to do, please let me know!

also regarding the runt, i noticed when i was hand feeding her that her tiny teeth look more white than orange. i know you can give adult chins tums for calcium, but can i give any to a kit so young?

Agreed, dont use the medication yet - doesn't sound infected if there is no more discharge - you'd need to make sure it's dosed properly for such a small kit so you'd need a vet visit before you try to self medicate.

You should keep rotating because mom's milk is best - after the runt has been in by herself for two hours then top her off with the handfeeding. That way if she's not nursing enough you can fill her up before putting in the bigger kit. If mom's got limited milk or only a few working nipples the bigger kit may be jostling it out of position when she's in there so this will make sure she's got a full tummy.

I wouldnt put it in with the other female. I wouldnt take the risk but it could work... A snuggle buddy will work just fine though.

 

[tunes]

If you have drops, rather than ointment, you won't hurt the kit by putting a drop in the eye with the goop. I've done it plenty of times with no ill effects. If it's ointment, don't bother. It's too much of a mess. No oral antibiotics at all at this point.

Yes, you need to keep hand feeding. Just because she was sitting under mom doesn't mean she was nursing. She could have just been keeping warm. I also wouldn't remove her from mom at all while the larger kit is in the cage. You remove the larger kit to make sure the little one is nursing. When you put the larger one back in, hand feed the little one. That will hold her over until her sibling leaves. Closely monitor her weight. She cannot afford to lose even 1 more gm.

I knew what you meant with the .1 and .2. I've been hand feeding for years and I'd be stunned if a 20 gm kit took 1 mL!

Your larger kit will be fine by herself with a stuffy and a heating pad. I would not risk putting her in with another female unless you were 100% sure that she won't beat her up or kill her. She honestly will be fine on her own. They hate staying in prison, but they get over it quickly

ETA: By drops I mean Tobramycin. Terramycin is ointment and it's too goopy. Tobramycin is an antibiotic with no steroids.

 

[lizluck88]

thanks everybody, i will hold off on the eye medicine and vet call for now since her eyes are still looking fine.

she is moving around a lot more now that she can see what is going on, and when i checked her tummy last, it was a lot plumper than i have seen it yet (not quite "round" but not shrunken like it was) so she is definitely benefiting from her sibling being rotated out.

i haven't tried putting the larger kit with my other female yet, but i think i will still try an introduction, to see how they react. the female is a little timid, but a great snuggle buddy (she always seeks out someone else in the cage to cuddle with when she wants a nap). neither of my girls has ever bitten anyone, and she has only ever sprayed urine once (early on when i introduced them and they got in a squabble over food). so i feel confident that she won't hurt the kit, if anything she would run away from it!

thank you all for your continued support! i will update the next time there is any change!

 

[lizluck88]

the little kit lost her struggle today after losing yet more weight... i got her out for a feeding and she couldn't even hold her little head up. she made a little pee, and seemed to be struggling, her little tummy straining, so i thought she just needed to make a little poo, so i rubbed her tummy and coached her along. she continued to strain so i tried to put her in with mom (thinking mom might help her along when i couldn't) and mom didn't even look at her. i then took her back into my hands so she would stay warm, and i continued to reassure her and rub her. after a few minutes of her continued strains, her breathing started to become more and more shallow, until it stopped. after kissing her goodbye, i put her in the cage with mom so she could also say goodbye. at first, she didn't acknowledge the body at all, then she put her front arms over it and covered it for a minute, then hopped away again.
neither mom nor big sister seem at all phased by the whole ordeal, but i think my husband and i cried enough for everyone...

again, thank you all for your help, i don't think she would have lasted as long without it...

 

[Pookinaround]

I am soooo incredibly sorry to hear of your loss! I recently experienced the same thing with 2 little sapphire girls that I had. They were my first kits. I talked to the breeder I got mom from and she thinks since chins have 2 uteruses that they were each conceived at different times making the one premature. One of the kits didn't make it and the other is very healthy. I just wanted you to know that this is something that happens with chins and there is nothing more you could have done to try and save the little one...I know it is sad and again I am sorry for your loss!

 

[lizluck88]

thank you. this was one of my first babies, too. i did tons of research and came to the same conclusion as your breeder had. i'm thankful that mom had two babies, so she isn't lonely (i would have hated having a depressed chin on top of being so sad myself...), and the remaining baby is healthy, and growing like a weed.