Essentia
Jax Chinchilla Rescue
I also see the same thing Stacie. I'm hoping that I'm not seeing that correctly.
I don't have a ton of experience looking at xrays, so I'm hoping someone with a lot of malo experience will see this.
Please help me figure out what is going on merged with Runny Nose thread
- Thread starter SCchin
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I also see the same thing Stacie. I'm hoping that I'm not seeing that correctly.
I don't have a ton of experience looking at xrays, so I'm hoping someone with a lot of malo experience will see this.SCchin
Well-known member
The bottom of his jaw is lumpy to touch.
Neither vet has said anything about this.
What can be done if this is the case, and does it hurt to have the roots do that?
Stackie
I bite.
If his jaw feels lumpy, that is most likely what you are feeling..the roots.
Yes, I would assume it is extremely painful for them to have their roots growing through their bone....I can't even imagine. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done that would allow him to live a humane life if that is the case.
Yes, I would assume it is extremely painful for them to have their roots growing through their bone....I can't even imagine. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done that would allow him to live a humane life if that is the case.
Sycamore Chins
Well-known member
The bottom jaw does not look good, I've never seen anything like it.
I would worry that none of your vets said anything about it, that's not normal in any species of animal and quite blatantly obvious.
I would worry that none of your vets said anything about it, that's not normal in any species of animal and quite blatantly obvious.
Bearing in mind I am not a vet - from what I can see on the x-ray both sets of roots are overgrown - is the chin sowing signs of weepy eyes at all? When the upper roots elongate they grow into the eye sockets & can block the tear ducts, causing weepy eyes. On the 'top down' view it also looks like there might be some diverging (splaying) of the roots too.
I am surprised the vets did not comment on them - that is worrying IMHO.
If there are bumps on the lower jaw then the roots are growing through the jawbone. It is a painful condition & I am afraid that what you are describing in terms of symptoms would indicate that your chin has a painful mouth - think the worst toothache you've ever had plus an aching jaw.
The weight loss, matting, pawing at the mouth & crumbling pellets are all indicators of a chin with painful tooth problems. The mats are more than likely caused because the chin is not able to groom properly.
He may have another abscess - these are painful in themselves & can cause other problems with the roots/jaw such as tooth root movement (sliding in their sockets) & osteomyelitis (infection in the [jaw] bone). There are a few possibilities & I think this little chap need a full dental exam & x-rays - a lot could have changed since October.
Being brutally honest (& in answer to your question) there is no cure for root elongation - burring the tooth coronal surfaces down & removing spurs are temporary measures & only really curb the symptoms for a time. Some people will tell you that changing to a diet of vegetables & hay can make the roots improve but I have yet to see proper x-ray evidence of that.
I do not mean to cause upset but it might be time to consider this little chap's quality of life. If he cannot eat & is not looking after himself (grooming) & is not 'being a chinchilla' then he is probably feeling pretty miserable.
I would get him thoroughly examined again.
I am surprised the vets did not comment on them - that is worrying IMHO.
If there are bumps on the lower jaw then the roots are growing through the jawbone. It is a painful condition & I am afraid that what you are describing in terms of symptoms would indicate that your chin has a painful mouth - think the worst toothache you've ever had plus an aching jaw.
The weight loss, matting, pawing at the mouth & crumbling pellets are all indicators of a chin with painful tooth problems. The mats are more than likely caused because the chin is not able to groom properly.
He may have another abscess - these are painful in themselves & can cause other problems with the roots/jaw such as tooth root movement (sliding in their sockets) & osteomyelitis (infection in the [jaw] bone). There are a few possibilities & I think this little chap need a full dental exam & x-rays - a lot could have changed since October.
Being brutally honest (& in answer to your question) there is no cure for root elongation - burring the tooth coronal surfaces down & removing spurs are temporary measures & only really curb the symptoms for a time. Some people will tell you that changing to a diet of vegetables & hay can make the roots improve but I have yet to see proper x-ray evidence of that.
I do not mean to cause upset but it might be time to consider this little chap's quality of life. If he cannot eat & is not looking after himself (grooming) & is not 'being a chinchilla' then he is probably feeling pretty miserable.
I would get him thoroughly examined again.
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caiti
Well-known member
I would be worried too. The teeth are definitely growing through his jaw, I don't know how your vet can't see that. If you feel asymmetrical lumps on each side of his lower jaw (chins normally have a couple lumps on the lower jaw but that is the bone structure and you can feel them in the same place on each side), you're feeling his teeth growing through. This would explain all his symptoms.
I would get a new set of x-rays and see if there is any improvement since his filing. If not, I'm not sure how much you can do but I've never dealt personally with these kinds of issues in my chin.
SCchin
Well-known member
Wow, a lot to take in. I took him a few weeks ago to the vet, complaining that I knew something was not right. He was starting to chew his fur again, pawing at his jaw, powdered food. I commented that he was happier in December, but seemed in a bad mood. The vet commented that cats are better when they are awnry (sp?) and the same was true for chins. He said Quito was fine. He did xrays in December and said his bite had drastically changed. I could get copies. BUT it won't change the fact that he seems coming up on miserable. I ran upstairs and gave him pain med after I read the previous posts.
Claire, he isn't having any problems with his eyes. They seem fine. What is very upsetting is that after these xrays, the exotic vet (different than the one who just saw him, a 2 hr. drive away) went ahead and did $600 worth of teeth filing when maybe we should have called it quits. I had that thought, but my daughter and husband would have never gone with it.
With the teeth smaller, do the roots go back in? Is there any chance we are just dealing with a point, I need to ask that as a last resort.
Claire, he isn't having any problems with his eyes. They seem fine. What is very upsetting is that after these xrays, the exotic vet (different than the one who just saw him, a 2 hr. drive away) went ahead and did $600 worth of teeth filing when maybe we should have called it quits. I had that thought, but my daughter and husband would have never gone with it.
With the teeth smaller, do the roots go back in? Is there any chance we are just dealing with a point, I need to ask that as a last resort.
Did the vet explain what had 'altered drastically' in Quinto's bite?
TBH the vet does not sound very chinchilla/dental competent I am afraid.
Is he not on daily pain relief anyway? Chins hide pain until they physically cannot any longer - it is to their detriment at times.
Do the roots go back? No, I am afraid they do not. If they are loose in the sockets or are growing through the jawline then the damage has already been done.
Are you dealing with a point? Perhaps but a spur or two would be the least of his troubles. I am sorry.
I will not comment on what the vets have done (or not done, said or not said) already but I would look for another one.
I know you are probably feeling pretty raw right now, especially since it appears the vets have not told you everything that is going on with Quinto but I want to share something with you which I hope might be helpful. Several years ago I coined this motto (when I lost my first mallo chin) & I use with any chin I think is struggling with regards to quality of life: "Rather a minute too soon than a second too late". I firmly believe it to be true. When the spark is beginning to fade & the chin can no longer do the things which typical chins do then it is time to let them go.
You know your chin better than any of us on the forum - you know whether he is miserable, whether he is being 'Quinto' or whether he has lost that spark. One of the hardest decisions we ever make as chinchilla owners is knowing when it is the right time to give them a peaceful & dignified forever sleep. It is the last act of loving kindness we give them & it hurts every single time.
I wish you & Quitno all the very best.
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Sycamore Chins
Well-known member
IMO, The top roots aren't that terrible (certainly not the worst i've seen) - that is why you probably aren't seeing any weepiness, etc. from the eyes.
One thing I have to say is follow your gut. It never hurts to get a second or even third opinion, or more until you are fully satisfied. Ask questions, lots of questions. The vets cannot fault you for either.
We've lost a couple beloved chins to malo, it's never an easy thing to do, to make that decision, but you have to think of what is best for them.
One thing I have to say is follow your gut. It never hurts to get a second or even third opinion, or more until you are fully satisfied. Ask questions, lots of questions. The vets cannot fault you for either.
We've lost a couple beloved chins to malo, it's never an easy thing to do, to make that decision, but you have to think of what is best for them.
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Riven
Bad Chin
I agree with Alicyn that the tops looks much better than the bottom, which is probably why there's not watering eyes. It does appear that there is some inflammation at the roots though, usually indicated by the whitish "fuzziness" you can see long the top roots.
I've put chins down for less than that. If it was my animal I'd have it him to put immediately. What I see seems to clearly show that the bottom roots have already grown through the bottom of the jaw. The only way to describe this would be to have someone very slowly drilling through your bottom jaw.
There is nothing you can do to correct this type of malo, it will only continue to get worse as time proceeds, and the vet should know that this is not normal. I would not trust a vet after seeing these myself who didn't notice the growth and not notice it was abnormal.
If you need the extra re-assurance I'm sure that updated xrays would show more growth since these with the amount of damage that's been done. In the end, you have to decide what's best for you pet.
I've put chins down for less than that. If it was my animal I'd have it him to put immediately. What I see seems to clearly show that the bottom roots have already grown through the bottom of the jaw. The only way to describe this would be to have someone very slowly drilling through your bottom jaw.
There is nothing you can do to correct this type of malo, it will only continue to get worse as time proceeds, and the vet should know that this is not normal. I would not trust a vet after seeing these myself who didn't notice the growth and not notice it was abnormal.
If you need the extra re-assurance I'm sure that updated xrays would show more growth since these with the amount of damage that's been done. In the end, you have to decide what's best for you pet.
starleomach
Dawnna's Keeper
I am very sorry to have to say I agree, those bottom roots are beyond terrible. There is no fixing that and the chinchilla is very likely in a lot of pain
SCchin
Well-known member
Everyone, thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.
Unfortunately we are at a holiday weekend in a small town where nothing will be open. This chin belongs to my 17 y/o daughter who will be devastated having to put him down. I am plotting my course to handle it all. I need to buy a day or two. I have metacam here. It says to give .1 cc per day. How much more can I give to buy a day or two so she can say goodbye and we can get to a vet. I don't want to put him down w/the metacam, but I don't think .1 cc is enough. Would two to three doses a day be too much?
She may want to go to the vet one more time..... but I'm not sure I want to spend that much more money and drive two hours away to a new vet with a chin that can't be cured. I have a feeling this guy's little mouth has never been right and he needs to move on to pain-free land. And, I question if we should get another, with the level of chin expertise that is nearby....
Unfortunately we are at a holiday weekend in a small town where nothing will be open. This chin belongs to my 17 y/o daughter who will be devastated having to put him down. I am plotting my course to handle it all. I need to buy a day or two. I have metacam here. It says to give .1 cc per day. How much more can I give to buy a day or two so she can say goodbye and we can get to a vet. I don't want to put him down w/the metacam, but I don't think .1 cc is enough. Would two to three doses a day be too much?
She may want to go to the vet one more time..... but I'm not sure I want to spend that much more money and drive two hours away to a new vet with a chin that can't be cured. I have a feeling this guy's little mouth has never been right and he needs to move on to pain-free land. And, I question if we should get another, with the level of chin expertise that is nearby....
SCchin
Well-known member
This is HARD, the pain meds are in force, he is playing, eating hay.....even pellets. I put a lot of both in, I bet he is pretty hungry.
He hasn't been on any pain med because remember, the vet thought he was fine. I only used the metacam for a few days each for the major teeth filing in Oct., the incisor trim in Nov. and the abscess removal in Dec.
I will watch to see if I can determine when it wears off. It is supposed to last a whole day. Again, if I think he needs it more than every 24 hrs. is it ok?
Don't worry, we won't stay in this mode too long.
He hasn't been on any pain med because remember, the vet thought he was fine. I only used the metacam for a few days each for the major teeth filing in Oct., the incisor trim in Nov. and the abscess removal in Dec.
I will watch to see if I can determine when it wears off. It is supposed to last a whole day. Again, if I think he needs it more than every 24 hrs. is it ok?
Don't worry, we won't stay in this mode too long.
ticklechin
Well-known member
Lucifer right now is in holding pattern since he has been undiagnosed after numerous vet visits until he sees the dentist at the end of the month, he has been on metecam for 60 days now along with famotidine he gets it twice a day, .6 units, so it can be given twice a day. If you are going the route of long term pain control, the better bet is tramadol with famotidone. That said, just a picture that is worth a 1000 words as far as elongation goes. One of my skulls with advanced lower jaw elongation.
SCchin
Well-known member
I told my daughter he needs to be put down. The plan is to go to the vet tomorrow, she is spending the day with him. She said she now sees his pain too. I am just giving him .05 cc whenever he looks pained, will probably come out to .2 cc/day. I stayed up pretty close to all night with him to spend time with him myself. I told him he was a good pet, and that he has given us many great memories. I apologized that we didn't know about how to feed him and that it caused him pain. I am his Mat puller, and I picked his mats out on his chin. I let him have his sand bath in his cage all night for a treat. I scratched under his chin since he loves that. He really has lost his spark, it looks like he is trying to hold together, he hunches over in the corner, then he goes to the hay and nibbles a little, then to the sand bath. I think with drooling chins, they should have the sand bath in the cage, I wish I had discovered this earlier. He can roll in the sand to keep ahead of the mats. So he still wishes to groom, it must have been difficult with the large amount of drool, it literally covers his whole chest and his whole chest is wet. He still looks good except for the terrible haircut from chewing his fur. He snoodled my hand, but immediately used two knuckles to rub his jaw. Its like he was telling me it hurt. I am also feeding him CC.
Oh well....... its probably going to be a long night. So much for my relaxing three day weekend. And I have an angry hurting teen to deal with, it will be ok, but not without some hurtful comments coming from the hurt....
Oh well....... its probably going to be a long night. So much for my relaxing three day weekend. And I have an angry hurting teen to deal with, it will be ok, but not without some hurtful comments coming from the hurt....
Amy555
International Luffa Mogul
It sounds like you are doing your best now that you have all of the information of those experienced in these things. You loved him the best you knew how and I'm sure that he felt that. From what I understand malo isnt exactly something you can prevent so dont kick yourself too much. Fill him up with as much love as you can right now and he will know you only want him to be happy and painfree. My sympathy in this painful time.
Jazicat
Well-known member
I just wanted to say that I am so sorry you and your daughter are going through this. Malo is one of those things that can happen even with the best of care and it sounds like you have done all you can. I find it hard reading about the poor owners who have to deal with it because it's just so sad.
I can also imagine that losing a pet at 17 would be hard but as her mother I know it's extra hard on you so all of you will be in my thoughts.
I can also imagine that losing a pet at 17 would be hard but as her mother I know it's extra hard on you so all of you will be in my thoughts.
Riven
Bad Chin
I know that this is a very, very difficult decision, but you are putting the quality of his life, before yours, that is the most selfless thing a pet owner can do. I hope his journey is smooth, and you pain is eased at knowing you've done the best that you could for him during his time with you.
SCchin
Well-known member
Very runny nose
This is the same chin as the help me figure out thread. He has a very runny nose, green stuff coming out.
Is this connected to the elongated roots, a separate issue, or ??
Are we having fun yet? :hair:
This is the same chin as the help me figure out thread. He has a very runny nose, green stuff coming out.
Is this connected to the elongated roots, a separate issue, or ??
Are we having fun yet? :hair:
Laurie
I heart Leonard
A runny nose with mucous is sign of a URI which is deadly. This chin needs meds immediately, please get it to the vet and have them check lungs for any fluid. With it being a runny nose and mucous they really should prescribe Baytril for this it needs the "big guns" to treat the illness. URI's again are VERY deadly so please get help immediately.
