Breeders Selling to Petstores

[Tagna]

I'm curious what everyone's take is on this. I know a lot of ranchers worldwide supply petstores with chinchillas but what about hobby breeders? Is this something that is frowned upon? Do quality breeders do this? Or is this something only a backyard breeder would do for profit?

I know quite a few hobby breeders that screen potential buyers so much that I can't see this being something that most hobby breeders do.

 

[chin-nw]

My understanding is that pet stores only buy from FDA approved breeders. Someone told me that, can't remember who though. So I don't know if a hobby breeder would qualify. Maybe someone else knows first hand though.

 

[Riven]

Do you mean USDA?

No matter what size your breeding program is you will have culls and kits/animal of lesser quality. I think it comes down to a personal thing more than a "socially acceptable" thing. I mean at one time chins as pets was thought of as being ridiculous, lol.

A breeder of any size can become USDA certified, even if they only have two chins.

 

[mishalaa]

I think you have to be USDA certified to sell to a wholesaler - and then pet store chains (like Petco and Petsmart) get their chins from the wholesalers.

However, small mom and pop pet shops - independent stores - typically deal with breeders directly. The pet store in the town where I work gets their ferrets from a breeder, all their puppies from breeders, they claim their kittens are all rescues but who knows, and I'm sure the rest of their animals come from local breeders as well - with the possible exception of their fish.

 

[Tagna]

Let's just say it's to local mom and pop petstores. Basically, I get not everyone wants a rescue so I'm trying to come up with a list of ways to avoid buying a chin from an unethical breeder or a byb. Then I was thinking, would breeders (hobby breeders and not large operations or ranchers) be considered unethical selling to petstores?

Would this be a red light to not buy from that person if they are selling a large volume of chins to petstores?

 

[Riven]

Again that's a personal ethics question.... I would not say that's I say that is a reason not to buy from a person. Many of the nations top breeders wholesale. I think that the main focus on deciding if a person is an ethical breeder would be to find out WHY they are breeding and their goals, not who they all sell to. If someone is breeding just for pet stores they're focusing on sales, not quality. If they focus on quality that would be the my main concern.

 

[Spoof]

USDA certification is a pain in the butt and expensive. To make money at it you need to do it big - not one or two, but 100 or more babies per month. Wholesale runs between $25-$65 per chin, there can be no blemishes or missing legs/tails/fur/crinkled ears/etc. Right now it's on the downswing so closer to the low amount.

That being said I guess it could be profitable to sell a chin to a petstore once in awhile if you get overrun, but then it's a question of supply and demand and wether you're being responsible in your production.

Holding out for the pet buyers and selling at $120-$250 each is more profitable IMO.

If someone is breeding just for pet stores they're focusing on sales, not quality.

Riven says it here - someone who breeds only for wholesale breeds for quantity. They do not advertise online, they don't work with the general public or have websites. There are many of these guys, I just found another one here in Lafayette that I'm guessing has at least 60, if not more. (Craigslist fishing, lol)

Is this something that is frowned upon?

I don't frown on it - it's your business and you can run it however you like. So long as your chins are healthy and you're not a complete asshat, I'm good.

 

[starleomach]

I don't think it makes someone a back yard breeder. Out of kits only 25% are better then the parents (therefore worth keeping) so the other 75% need to go somewhere if there is no market for chinchillas or if you don't like people coming to your house/feel comfortable then selling to a wholesaler or selling to a pet store is an option. It is much more profitable to sell a kit for 100 to a pet person then for 25-30 to a petstore/wholesaler.

It is all about the breeder and how they feel about it and the pet store they are selling to . If it is clearly a crappy store that is one thing. But I wouldn't judge someone based on that. Most BYB don't care about the animals at all and aren't breeding to improve, but even the pest animals have some lower quality offspring

 

[jags]

I agree USDA certification can be a pain in the butt if you do not do things right to begin with but they are not unreasonable and if you do things right are pretty easy to get along with, at least from our experiences. It is not expensive as the annual cost for a USDA license is based on your yearly dollar volume in animals regulated by the USDA and ranges from $30 to $750. Your sales to private people do not count towards the dollar amount.

As to the original question, most ranchers and hobby breeders I know sell to wholesale to cull out their lower quality animals that they are not using or selling as breeding quality. Selling wholesale animals is not a get rich overnight thing done for profit, it simply keeps the animals from being pelted if they are not of the best quality.

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

I personally would NEVER sell to a pet store. I screen all my prospective chin parents. If I sell to pet stores I lose control of that. All have to pass this screening process before I consider a person for one of my chins. This screening process also involves all my rescues.

 

[ErinsChins]

My opinion on selling to pet stores is probably ill-informed, so I could probably be convinced otherwise, but I don't think it's any different for a hobby breeder, byb, or rancher to sell to a pet store. I don't really agree with it, mostly because I don't agree with pet stores selling live animals in the first place. I also screen potential buyers and by the time I make the sale, I know where mine are going. I don't think my conscience could handle not knowing because I would constantly be wondering if they are still alive, what they're being fed, etc. I respect ranchers for what they do and I understand that there isn't much choice when it comes to that. For me personally though, no, I couldn't do it.

 

[Megan]

IMO its personal opinion. I don't suggest people purchase from petstores simply because you don't know where that animal comes from. It could come from a very good breeder that whole sales, or it could come from a very crappy breeder that does. It's just a draw of cards.

I think you'll find if you "stick around" that a lot more people whole sale then will admit publicly, because of the back lash of some people. I do not mind if a breeder or rancher wholesales. I know of several who do.

I have not yet wholesaled, however I have thought of it because of how many standard males that I have born that simply don't sell online. I use a lot of standards in my breedings and not mute x mute x mute x mute crosses. So I get a lot of standard offspring. But it comes back to the fact that if I didn't screen my buyers, and sold to just anyone they'd have been gone long ago...if I whole sale, I can't screen buyers and can't see that they are going to atleast a decent home... It's a decision I, personally, am torn on.

 

[Tagna]

I know large scale breeders and ranchers do it. I'm referring to the smaller hobby breeders. Or is this something that not many will admit to due to the stigma?

 

[ticklechin]

In my jaded view of chinchilla purchasing, it does not make a hill of beans good where you get them from, you can get a chin with health issues. From award winning rancher to rescue, from petstore to craigslist, from hobby breeder to chin mill, as long as someone in that chain breeds chinchillas with genetic issues it will pop up anywhere. And yes, I have bought from the 1st award winning rancher-malo and heart murmur, second award winning rancher-heart murmur and malo, rescues-genetic digestive issues but oddly no malo, hobby breeder-malo, pet store-malo, you get the gist.

 

[mishalaa]

I agree to a degree with Dawn. In the end, the only good things about buying from a breeder is you know the chin's birthdate, you can get them as kits if that's what you want, and more than likely they are less expensive than from the pet store. I will not breed malo or fur-chewing chins, but I cannot and do not guarantee it won't pop up in animals I sell. All I can guarantee is the parents did not have it at the time they were bred.

In my jaded view of chinchilla selling, it does not make a hill of beans good how much screening you do. When rehoming for whatever reason, people often turn to craigslist or hoobly and try to sell their chin to get some money back rather than return it to the breeder, and that chin ends up in who knows whose hands anyway. Or, people who seem decent and caring at first can later decide other things interest them more and leave their animals dying in squalid conditions, no food or water. I've seen both happen.

Ultimately, even with contracts, the best one can do when selling a chin is hope for the best. For that reason, I don't see much difference in selling to screened adopters directly, or to pet stores. I do not believe selling to pet stores is ideal (ideally, all pet owners would be awesome), but I do not think it unethical either.

 

[ErinsChins]

I know large scale breeders and ranchers do it. I'm referring to the smaller hobby breeders. Or is this something that not many will admit to due to the stigma?

Personally, I have more demand from good homes than I have supply of chins. As long as that continues I will ever even consider selling to a pet store. I'm sure that plenty of hobby breeders do though. I know of one locally that attempts to.

 

[chin-nw]

Do you mean USDA?

No matter what size your breeding program is you will have culls and kits/animal of lesser quality. I think it comes down to a personal thing more than a "socially acceptable" thing. I mean at one time chins as pets was thought of as being ridiculous, lol.

A breeder of any size can become USDA certified, even if they only have two chins.

Oh yeah :laughitup: Thats what I meant. Thanks Nicole.

 

[Amphy64]

I have not yet wholesaled, however I have thought of it because of how many standard males that I have born that simply don't sell online. I use a lot of standards in my breedings and not mute x mute x mute x mute crosses. So I get a lot of standard offspring. But it comes back to the fact that if I didn't screen my buyers, and sold to just anyone they'd have been gone long ago...if I whole sale, I can't screen buyers and can't see that they are going to atleast a decent home... It's a decision I, personally, am torn on.

I've heard before that standard males (and beige males?) don't seem to sell as well to pet people, such a shame. I love my standard boy, and can't understand why anyone wouldn't like such a beautiful blue-grey colour. So, I think it's worth waiting for someone who does want that chin, if you can.

I can see why ranchers would sell to petstores, but not really a hobby breeder. Even if it's a good petstore, and takes care of the animals, petstores don't really tend to refuse a sale. I see so many questions all the time from people who have bought (or are just going to buy) a chin from a petstore. It's good they're asking, I guess, and for some people this seems to be their method of doing research, but I'd prefer to see them be a bit more proactive about it themselves especially when the questions are very basic ones - such as how long a chin lives when they've already bought one. They could still be a really good owner, of course, but if they bought the chin from a breeder who ran a screening process, they'd have to do a bit more research before they brought the animal home, which would be good not only for the chin but for them, as they'd have a better idea what they were committing to. So most breeders would surely prefer to have that opportunity to educate a prospective buyer first, especially because there are no guarantees the chin will be correctly cared for after leaving them.
Being in the UK (so most of our breeders are relatively small scale), I personally would not buy a chin from any breeder who would sell to a petstore. A breeder who has any sort of screening process knows they get a lot of dubious inquiries and have to turn a lot of people down, I was talking to my own chin's breeders about that. If the chins were sold to a petstore, the only thing to put these people off would be the pricetag.

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

I realize not all the people I screen will care for their chin that way they said they would. I have had people bring them back a year or so later. I also know some people sell the chin to someone else who might not be who I would sell to. However a majority of 'my people' are 'who I thought they were'. I keep in touch with a lot of them.

 

[Riven]

I agree with Mish, you just never know. Crap I've known and trusted people, not just pet owners, but other breeders and thought I really knew them for a year, two years, even more, just to have them turn around and throw me under the bus and pull a 180 over who I thought they were. Not to mention the I just want a chin, so I'll tell you what you want to hear people. I had this happen with a female I sold as a pet only non-breeder. They ended up "just wanting one litter" and killed her. They checked out, had a vet lined up, came and saw her then made arrangements to get her and everything.

Many breeders run into the same issue that Megan was talking about. Only so many people want standard males for example. If you're in an area that doesn't have a good pet market, or the private pet market is flooded you will get an excessive of males.

I hear a lot of people say I would never buy from someone who sells to a pet store, come sometimes it's that or pelt, and usually pelting will get people wound up even more. That's why many breeders, ranchers, etc, don't get into these discussions or won't say if they do or they don't.